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Old 01-14-2019, 02:02 PM
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I use a ton of different brand products here building cars for customers and I rarely have anything bad to say about products, and I generally like to try things on my own cars first before I even recommend something. I'm not afraid to experiment, but that Champion I was not impressed with at all.

When there are millions of LS engines running around with much smaller radiators in them and have absolutely no cooling issues (I've owned 4 of them) and a Champion truck sized radiator can't do the job, it leaves me scratching my head.

Don't know if they would have replaced it, never tried, so I can't speak for customer service. At that point I didn't care if it blew the tank off of it. It never leaked on the ground and coolant levels never got low so I ran with it. Sold the truck a couple years later. Other than the occasional coolant smell when you walked in front of the truck and a green looking tank, it didn't bother me. The Champions are so cheap to buy I didn't care if it blew, I'd just buy something else at that point.

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Old 01-14-2019, 02:22 PM
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i understand YOU had a bad experience with a champion that was likely defective based on the pics you posted & comments from others... but if you re-read the thread i linked to, every member that commented about using a champion said it was great & nobody had the bad rows or green issue you mentioned or all the LS engines that a champion wont cool. point being, 1 (or even some) bad experience shouldnt condemn the entire brand or product. the pics you posted are gone due to photobucket but mine are still there to see, rows are fine & after 5 years of use no green stains or coolant smell of any kind...

as for customer service, i did have them replace the first one i bought due to a cosmetic issue, one tank had a small dent i didnt like... they sent a new one out first to replace it & included a pre paid label to send the old one back when i got around to swapping them. no questions asked & service was excellent. not trying to dimish your experience, just posting my experience.

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Old 01-14-2019, 03:20 PM
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They may very well have improved upon them, and customer service may be alright. But I haven't seen any compelling evidence to make me want another one.
My issue is that whether they would have replaced it or not doesn't matter. The fact that I wouldn't have known how long my daily driver would be parked while they go through their due process, shipping etc.. just left me to the decision that I didn't care if it blew. For $200 it was a cheap radiator, lesson learned. It could completely fail and I knew I could have a Griffin here from Summit the next day.

The biggest point really is the same thing Ccass is saying. There are better choices on the market for not that much more money. That's why I have no interest in Champions anymore. Even the Cold Case right off the bat had better construction, more fin count, better looking welds, and nice stock appearing tanks. I was impressed out of the box when compared to a Champion. And it's $589 from Butler with dual electric fan and shroud setup, a controller and complete wire harness. Can't complain. The exact same thing from Champion is $650 at the cheapest place I found, and they want to sell you a 3 row which isn't as efficient.

I'd recommend for those shopping to look around. I've had them both and can say the Cold Case appearance wise is a better piece. The real test will be in a few months when we get into our summer temps. If this cold case can keep a 724hp 571 ci engine cool that says everything to me when a champion struggled with a stock LS.

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Old 01-14-2019, 04:40 PM
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understood. but just an FYI: there is no down time, they send the replacement out first with a prepaid label to return the old one once they are swapped, all for free.

i agree with you & Ccass that there are better radiators for more money, not doubting that at all. but, you need to realize that many people out there are on a pretty tight budget & before the cold case radiators existed the only other options were brands that cost 2-3 times as much. champions with a no questions asked lifetime warranty for $200-$250 shipped are a great deal no matter how you look at it.

& they do not struggle to cool a stock LS engine as you keep saying, unless of course you have a defective one with crushed rows that will greatly dimish its cooling capacity. the 3 row champion will cool most 500hp cars, if the rest of the cooling system is in good working order, myself & many others here & elsewhere are proof of that.

bottom line is the champion is a great budget radiator, if you can afford a better one by all means do that. the cold case are a better price point radiator but from what i see currently they are still at least $100 more than the 3 row champion. i will leave it at that.

  #25  
Old 01-14-2019, 06:10 PM
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& they do not struggle to cool a stock LS engine as you keep saying, unless of course you have a defective one with crushed rows that will greatly dimish its cooling capacity.
Mine was proof. I'd say it was poor quality when you actually looked at it. It definitely had flow and cooling issues. Too bad those pictures are gone. They make you cringe. I know I'm not the only one out there that's had issues with them either. Haven't heard anything as of late but I don't pay much attention to them anymore either, but I just won't risk one in a customer car no matter what the price.

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Old 01-14-2019, 06:45 PM
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Mine was proof. I'd say it was poor quality when you actually looked at it. It definitely had flow and cooling issues. Too bad those pictures are gone. They make you cringe. I know I'm not the only one out there that's had issues with them either. Haven't heard anything as of late but I don't pay much attention to them anymore either, but I just won't risk one in a customer car no matter what the price.
i dont mean to keep going back & forth here, but yours was not proof of anything... it was defective. everone on that thread agreed theirs looked nothing like what you showed in the cut away pics & i posted pics showing what both mine looked like & they all agreed theirs looked the same. my friends looked fine too. i understand you had a bad experience but that does not mean thats how all champions are nor does it justify calling them all JUNK. fact is they will & do cool many 500hp engines, & will also cool LS engines if not defective.

you're entitled to your opinion on them, im sorry you got a bad one. but just like the BFG white letters issue, you said yours were good & that was no reason to knock the quality of the tires due to a bad batch, same should apply here, you had a defective radiator, or maybe they made a bad batch... nothing more. the horse is dead so hopefully we can stop beating it.

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Old 01-14-2019, 07:02 PM
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Still doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy about it. I can't comfortably recommend them for customers knowing what I've experienced. I'll stick with what has provided me with a 100% track record.

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Old 01-14-2019, 07:11 PM
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Wow just for giggles I looked up reviews. There are many. While there are some happy customers it was pretty easy to find just as many unhappy. And what a surprise, they are still experiencing the same issue I had years ago. And the return policy doesn't appear to be that quick, which I figured. These are just a few quick reviews I found. There are literally dozens from various sources. You decide.

.....Updated less them 6 months old and less them 5k miles and it started leaking by the lower rad hose/ lower tank. Never been off road. Update had to pay return shipping got a replacement sent out after they received mine so jeep was down 2 weeks. The replacement only lasted 6 more months this radiator is junk do not buy!

.....Not a good radiator. The warranty for a lifetime sounds good...but, after about 6 months they seem to start leaking. I'm now on my second on of these in my Jeep Wrangler, and it is leaking too. The warranty doesn't cover the cost to return, which is around $50. My plan is to go with an OEM unit by Mopar and plan on a 10 year life.

......Very poor quality it started to leak after about a year so I replaced it with the plastic oem one for my jeep tj and it’s been running strong since

......Update: 5/06/2015
I have had nothing but trouble with this radiator. IT has been replaced 4 times. each time I had to pay a return service ticket fee and return shipping. I have now spent twice the cost of the radiator and still have an unreliable radiator. The lifetime warranty is worthless if you have to replace it several times a year and pay for shipping everytime.

Stay away from this brand!!!
5 people found this helpful

.....It has leaked pretty much since I bought the thing. It leaks from the core both top and bottom. The stopcock also leaks. Moreover, the thing actually cools worse that the stock radiator. The welds are very poor quality, which is hard to tell from pictures and the mounting points for the fan shroud are tacked on, albeit poorly. The same low quality junk they sell on Ebay.

.....1 st one leaked after a month, understanding that things happen exchanged for another this one lasted 2&1/2 months .Real pretty to look at but very poor quality product both leaked where the core meets the tanks on both sides. Very disappointed and frustrating for my son who's 70 c10 we put this low quality product into.

......began leaking after 5000 miles (1 year),
at the bottom core in my 01 Sahara

.....really sorry product I have been thru 2 in less less than 2 years They start leaking inside of 10 months and will not stand behind product but, they will all you another one.

  #29  
Old 01-14-2019, 09:43 PM
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I think both of you have made good points. Nobody that makes a purchase decision wants to recommend let alone switch to another brand when their experience is good. If Champion was junk, they wouldn't be in business. So the comments are all about degrees of quality and degrees of satisfaction.

IMO, until Cold Case, there was a huge variation in price from the Champions to the top name American Brands. Cold Case fills that gap. That's why we introduced the brand. The way we felt, you are investing 30-40k minimum in one of these cars. A lot of times it's pushing $10k in the motor alone.. So we're hoping most of you will see the value in spending an extra $100 to be absolutely confident you've got enough radiator and it will be the last one you'll ever need. But comparing apples to apples, the Cold Case units are still better than the 4 row Champions efficiency wise, have the stamped tanks and cost literally the SAME as a Champion.

That being said, If you've already bought another brand whether it's real expensive or real cheap, and your happy with it, then you've made the right decision.

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  #30  
Old 01-15-2019, 04:17 AM
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My complaint with cold case is with customer service. I bought a cold case for my Tempest that has never been out of the box or installed in anyway. Fast forward a couple of months and I get told they are coming out with a HO radiator that will fit the small support like I have and that it will be a better option for the engine I am building. I called about swapping the one I have out and just paying the difference between the two radiators and after some time on the phone I was told they couldn’t find my proof of purchase and wouldn’t make the swap. Since they are a mail order business it’s not like I stole the radiator. They should have taken this one back and just let me pay the difference between the two. I emailed the website just now in an attempt to try again to get it done. We will see what they say.

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Old 01-15-2019, 10:40 AM
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still beating the horse i see mr jones... im not going to continue going back & forth with your champion radiator bashing, but i will reply to your comments. you say there are "just as many unhappy customers" yet you came up with a handfull of bad reviews, out of what, 10s of thousands of happy customers that dont post reviews? & the positive reviews i see out there far outweigh the negatives. you also say the the return policy doesnt appear to be that quick, "as you figured"... yet i posted my first hand experience with the return policy & it was as fast as could be & free shipping both ways, & they were more than happy to help which means thats what they do for the vast majority of legitimate warranty issues. thats fine if you dont like the brand & have a negative bias towards them because of your experience, the fact is they are a good budget radiator with countless happy customers on this forum & in general. & like Ccas said, if they were so bad & "junk" they wouldnt be in business.

& to keep this all in perspective here... every company/brand out there has complaints & negative reviews, from tv's to auto parts to cars to shoes! eagle cranks were called junk because a handfull of the early cast cranks broke due to unknown reasons, yet theres probably a hundred thousand in service doing fine. early comp lifters had lots of noise complaints, yet 90% of them were fine & are still doing fine today. the BFG tire issue have all kinds of complaints out there on the letters, doesnt mean the tires are bad & you dont see me or others bashing the entire brand. you can find all kinds of bad reviews for any product, doesnt mean they are all bad.

another example that appies here, i used to work for the 2nd largest phone company in the world, started out in customer service then went into handling business & government accounts & FCC escalated complaints, handling 100+ calls a day & majority were complaints of one form or another, the job could get very stressfull & after awhile you'd get a bad impression of the company as a whole. when we first started in training, they would present actual figures to show how the impression was flawed because thats all we saw. the numbers were basically showing 10's of thousands of complaints coming in each quarter, yet they had over a hundred million customers using the service every day that were as happy as could be & over all the company had one of the best customer service ratings in the industry. the percentage of complaints came out to be like <.005% of the customer base per year. point is there will always be unhappy customers, doesnt make the company or brand as bad as those unhappy customers will try to claim. same thing applies here.

as ive tried a few times now, can we please be done with this? you had 1 bad experience, let it go.

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Old 01-15-2019, 01:28 PM
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Well on my end cold case let me return my radiator and just pay the difference between the two so I am happy now

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Old 01-15-2019, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ccass View Post
I think both of you have made good points. Nobody that makes a purchase decision wants to recommend let alone switch to another brand when their experience is good. If Champion was junk, they wouldn't be in business. So the comments are all about degrees of quality and degrees of satisfaction.

IMO, until Cold Case, there was a huge variation in price from the Champions to the top name American Brands. Cold Case fills that gap. That's why we introduced the brand. The way we felt, you are investing 30-40k minimum in one of these cars. A lot of times it's pushing $10k in the motor alone.. So we're hoping most of you will see the value in spending an extra $100 to be absolutely confident you've got enough radiator and it will be the last one you'll ever need. But comparing apples to apples, the Cold Case units are still better than the 4 row Champions efficiency wise, have the stamped tanks and cost literally the SAME as a Champion.

That being said, If you've already bought another brand whether it's real expensive or real cheap, and your happy with it, then you've made the right decision.
Do you work for cold case?

  #34  
Old 01-15-2019, 04:11 PM
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Ccass owns and started cold case. My opinion is it's a well researched and designed product.

GEORGE

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  #35  
Old 01-15-2019, 10:40 PM
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More people are prone to post negative feedback or problems than they are to post positive comments and someone will tell 2 people about a bad experience compared to teling 1 person of a good experience.

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  #36  
Old 01-15-2019, 11:53 PM
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Well on my end cold case let me return my radiator and just pay the difference between the two so I am happy now
I'm not sure I follow. On your post at 3:17am you say we didn't take care of you and offer an upgrade but then 12:38 today, you said we did take care of allowing the upgrade? Did that just happen today? What was the timeline of everything?

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Old 01-16-2019, 09:14 PM
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I'm not sure I follow. On your post at 3:17am you say we didn't take care of you and offer an upgrade but then 12:38 today, you said we did take care of allowing the upgrade? Did that just happen today? What was the timeline of everything?
I called and had a rather lengthy conversation with one of your salesmen. He explained that y’all may not have a record of purchase because it may have been bought by a third party vendor and that prices could fluctuate substantially based on who I got it from. I told them I had no idea so we just agreed on how much credit you guys would give me for the return and I agreed so I shipped the old one back and paid the difference. Waiting on my new radiator to show up you receive my old one back and get me squared away

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  #38  
Old 01-17-2019, 12:17 AM
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I think the important part that Champion played is to create some market competition, and force some of the higher priced brands to be more price competitive. I have 2 Champions. No problems in functionality. I put a 4 core in my Lemans, and it is thicker than stock. In hindsight, I might have done better to go with a 3 core version that fit stock.

FiTech did the same thing with market competition. Before FiTech, aftermarket efi was significantly more expensive. Even the cheapest systems (Professional Products) were easily $600 more than FiTech. FiTech proved a low cost system COULD be done, and set a new price bar for the other manufacturers. I think Champion did much the same for radiators.

This is great for the consumer, any way you slice it up. It gives options. Sometimes there needs to be a budget option for those who play in the low end of the hobby.

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Old 01-17-2019, 01:52 AM
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I just put a cold case in my 69 GTO with twin 12" fans, did have a 4 core In it that did fine but on a hot day going down the highway at 60mph or so it would heat up to 190-195 which I personally don't care for. At slower speeds it would do fine. I'm hoping the cold case will keep it cool at highway speed. It looks great and fit perfect no complaints so far. Just my 2 cents worth.

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Old 01-17-2019, 10:43 AM
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....on a hot day going down the highway at 60mph or so it would heat up to 190-195 which I personally don't care for.
190-195F is the sweet spot. You're not doing your engine any favors by running cooler than that.

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