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#1
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sway bar slide
Hello a few weeks ago I installed a Hotchkis sport suspension sway bar on the back of my 1967 GTO. Today I had it up on the hoist and noticed that the sway bar is sliding from side to side. This is evident by the grease relocation on each side of where the sway bar is attached the the rear axle. Look closely and you can see where it is sliding back and forth. Is this normal?? It seems like I have been experiencing torque steer recently. Could the two be connected somehow? If so How? Three pictures attached.
thank you in advance alan |
#2
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Might want to give all your rear control arm bushing a close look. That seems to be a lot of movement.
__________________
“Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan Press On! has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.” ― Calvin Coolidge |
#3
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Check control arm bushings. If they are good try 4 of these.
https://www.grainger.com/product/29N...g!431367529106!
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66 GTO Nostalgia Super Stock/Street Legal Car 421 CID, stock block, Wenzler Intake, 2- Carter 750 AFB's, 3.90 Gears, Full Factory Interior, Full Exhaust, Stock Suspension 3750LBS 9.77@136.99 Multiple NSCA/NMCA World Champion 66 GTO 389 3x2, 4 speed, 4.33 gear, Montero Red 33K original Miles 67 GTO 2dr Post, 428, Tri Power, 3.55 Gears 80 Trans Am Black SE Y84 W72 WS6 |
#4
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Think about what is happening to the sway bar, which is rigidly mounted to the frame, when the axle articulates in motion comparatively to the frame. There is going to be some movement of the sway bar at it's connection to the axle.
Now that's not to say the rear bar isn't partly to cause for your new steering issue. You've added more rate to the springs back there when the axle isn't moving directly up and down. On hard acceleration, the pinion gear wants to climb the ring gear, which acts on the axle itself and tends to lift one side. This is why you see drag racers using air bags on one side in the rear. This motion does transfer to the front of the car where any bump steer issue in the front can come in to play and cause what fwd drivers would call torque steer. The a body suspension does inherently have a good amount of bump steer in it and certain alignment setups can make that worse.
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-Jason 1969 Pontiac Firebird |
#5
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CONFUSED, Rear sway bars normally attach to the rear lower control arms and do not need the U shaped Brackets at all on the rear.
The bar if designed right bolts solid to the sides of the control arms. I have used shims between the lower arms and the outside edge of the sway bar so that the rear bar does not have any side to side movement. Tom V. The pictures almost look like you are talking about the front sway bar.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#6
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Quote:
https://www.hotchkis.net/product/196...k=&yr=&md=&sm=
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66 GTO Nostalgia Super Stock/Street Legal Car 421 CID, stock block, Wenzler Intake, 2- Carter 750 AFB's, 3.90 Gears, Full Factory Interior, Full Exhaust, Stock Suspension 3750LBS 9.77@136.99 Multiple NSCA/NMCA World Champion 66 GTO 389 3x2, 4 speed, 4.33 gear, Montero Red 33K original Miles 67 GTO 2dr Post, 428, Tri Power, 3.55 Gears 80 Trans Am Black SE Y84 W72 WS6 |
#7
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I’d call Hotchkis and ask. Like Tom said, I’ve never seen rear bars that attach that way. Reading the copy in the link, it says “... designed to pivot..” - so that may be what it’s supposed to do?
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1965 Pontiac LeMans. M21, 3.73 in a 12 bolt, Kauffman 461. |
#8
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Thanks Mike and Chris, Learned something new about "A-Body" parts today.
I really doubt that you could ever break a HO Racing rear sway bar but whatever. Thanks again Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#9
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Quote:
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=830810 Frank
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Poncho Huggen, Gear Snatchen, Posi Piro. |
#10
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I had a BMR bar on my '65 and it would move about 1/2' side to side. It never seemed to affect anything negatively that I could tell.
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1999 WS6 Formula, 1 of 175 1967 GTO Linden Green 4 spd, A/C, survivor 1967 Lemans convt 1967 Firebird 400 bench seat, deluxe interior, auto 1965 GTO 462, KRE unported D-port heads, Bullet 234/244 cam, th400, tight 10" converter, 3.73 gears, 87 octane, 3440 lbs. empty,1.59 60ft, 7.159@95.33 (1/8), a real daily driver, been totaled, rolled 3 times, hit a tree airborne. 1961 Catalina 2 door htp 1960 Ventura 4 door htp wife's car 1960 B'ville 2 door htp 1960 Catalina Wagon wife's car too |
#11
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Makes you question if the rear end has an issue that is causing it to walk around.
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#12
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One thing that can cause the rear axle on a "A-Body" to move around is if the upper and lower control arm bushings are shot. Same deal for the upper rear axle housing bushings.
I had bushings made from Bullit-proof Plexiglas and they will not fail due to impact or deform over time. They are a bit stiffer vs the Poly stuff though or the Rubber parts. Tom V. Ford was throwing out 2" thick sheets of the stuff 24" X 40" long. When it gets a bit scratched then the cameras installed in the CRASH PIT cannot film the crash properly, so they scrap the sheet. A sheet costs hundreds of dollars. You do NOT want a Rear Suspension System with a lot of slop or you will get as was said Chatter.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. Last edited by Tom Vaught; 07-20-2019 at 12:25 PM. |
#13
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On my BMR it clamped to the housing then the ends were connected to spherical links attached to the frame. The rear end itself doesn't move around, I think what's happening is if the left corner of the chassis goes down like in a turn it'll push the bar slightly to the right and vice versa. It doesn't move that much but would leave a grease mark on the bar like the OP's. When driving straight it wouldn't move at all side to side.
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1999 WS6 Formula, 1 of 175 1967 GTO Linden Green 4 spd, A/C, survivor 1967 Lemans convt 1967 Firebird 400 bench seat, deluxe interior, auto 1965 GTO 462, KRE unported D-port heads, Bullet 234/244 cam, th400, tight 10" converter, 3.73 gears, 87 octane, 3440 lbs. empty,1.59 60ft, 7.159@95.33 (1/8), a real daily driver, been totaled, rolled 3 times, hit a tree airborne. 1961 Catalina 2 door htp 1960 Ventura 4 door htp wife's car 1960 B'ville 2 door htp 1960 Catalina Wagon wife's car too |
#14
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If this were me--and it isn't--I'd hang the bar from the body/frame above the axle, with links dropping down to the axle or the control arms. This would drop the unsprung weight considerably.
As is...I'll continue with my heavy-ass HO Racing rear bar that stretches from arm to arm like the OEM bar. |
#15
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Check the upper cross member. If not equipped with reinforcement bars, it can flex, crack, or remove itself from the car.
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GOOD IDEAS ARE OFTEN FOUND ABANDONED IN THE DUST OF PROCRASTINATION |
#16
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YOU THE MAN MR CROCIE. We have been dancing around that possible torque steer issue and it never entered my mind to ask if he had installed the crossmember reinforcement brackets that GM used after the crossmembers cracked on the early cars.
(And I have installed those brackets on my car.) Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#17
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If you read the thread on chatter you will see "Put it on the lift and try it, this will tell you."
"Please report back", never heard a peep, next thing you see is this thread, lol. Frank
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Poncho Huggen, Gear Snatchen, Posi Piro. |
#18
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Quote:
__________________
71 GTO, 463, KRE 295 cfm heads ported by SD Performance, RPM intake, Qjet, Dougs Headers, Comp cams HR 246/252 ...11 to 1 , 3.55 cogs, 3985lbs.....day three- 11.04 at 120mph ....1.53 60', 6.98 1/8 mile |
#19
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Quote:
He is a not using a GM sway bar mount system (where the bar mounts to the lower control arms). The Sway Bar has heim lengths from the ends of the sway bar to the rear axle. BAR DOES NOT MOUNT TO THE LOWER CONTROL ARMS. Tom V.
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"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward. |
#20
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Hotchkis makes a bar that mounts to the axle housing with end links that bolt to the rear trailing arms.......see link below.... can’t tell in his pick if he’s using this particular one, but it looked like it.... looked at them a few time myself
https://www.hotchkis.net/product/196...&md=1089&sm=20 Some other brands of anti roll systems mount the bar to the axle and the end links attach to the frame .....bmr, hr parts etc...
__________________
71 GTO, 463, KRE 295 cfm heads ported by SD Performance, RPM intake, Qjet, Dougs Headers, Comp cams HR 246/252 ...11 to 1 , 3.55 cogs, 3985lbs.....day three- 11.04 at 120mph ....1.53 60', 6.98 1/8 mile |
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