#1  
Old 03-02-2018, 01:08 PM
ERIC60 ERIC60 is offline
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Default horn wire replacement on a tilt column

Hi all , on my 65 GTO, the horn wire is missing in the steering column and does not reach the horse shoe connector; does anyone have an idea how to replace it? my problem is how to remove the brass collector shown on the picture;
I could take off the nut, but then, I don't know how to go further on...
any tip will be welcome;
my column is a tilt one with shifter on the floor;
and the turn signal ids made by a steel cable actuating a switch on the bottom of the steering column; so only the horn wire is crossing the column;

thanks in advance for your help;
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  #2  
Old 03-03-2018, 11:56 AM
John V. John V. is offline
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I also have a Tilt Column in my '64 GTO but no experience with any disassembly. Hopefully somebody else here has experience and can provide a better answer.

There is a very thorough Tilt Column disassembly/reassembly procedure in the '64 Shop Manual complete with detailed parts illustrations, I assume there would be one in the '65 Shop Manual too. And maybe they were the same for both years.

If the brass piece you mention is the Horn Button Contact and assuming '65 is same as '64, the following disassembly steps might be useful to you:

7. Remove turn signal and tilt levers.

8. Remove automatic transmission indicator assembly and bulb. (obviously you won't need this step).

9. Pry out horn contact from turn signal actuator housing and let hang loose.

10. Remove turn signal cover with tool J-21180 (Fig. 9-14).

CAUTION: Do not use end of shaft to pull cover as tilt socket in column would be damaged.

11. Remove retainer (Tru-arc snap ring), collapsible spacer, wave washer, retainer, seat, inner race and steering shaft upper bearing.

NOTE: Collapsible spacer must not be reused.


I'll stop there. Don't know if you will need to remove the collapsible spacer to service the Horn Button Contact Cable (the wire from the contact to the harness) but if so, I wanted you to know that this spacer is not reusable.

Reading the reassembly steps, the Horn Contact and Wire go in before the new Collapsible Spacer, so I would expect you'll need to deal with that spacer unless somebody knows a shortcut trick.

Seems pretty challenging to me. Good luck!

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Old 03-03-2018, 12:37 PM
ERIC60 ERIC60 is offline
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thanks John,
my problem is that in my 6OO pages shop manual, the drawings are very poor since it's recycled paper and I have no memory of a detailed protocol for disassembling tilt column;
my other issue is that the horn contact is stucked and I don't want to force; should it come with an extractor?
thanks for your tips;

  #4  
Old 03-05-2018, 08:26 PM
John V. John V. is offline
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Surprised nobody else has jumped in with advice yet. Since I have never disassembled anything within the steering column, I'm afraid I don't have much more in the way of advice.

If it is stuck because of something gummy, you might dry dripping some Goo Gone, a citrus based adhesive remover. It might help the assembly to release.

Looking in the Service Parts Catalog, I see that the Tilt Column Horn Contact was serviced as an Assembly.

The Assembly consisted of:

The Horn Button Upper Bearing Contact Plate
The Horn Button Contact Insulator
The Horn Button Contact Cable Assembly

The Parts explosion illustration identifies them as separate parts and shows them individually but indicates that the individual parts were not serviced.

But it isn't clear that they can be removed as an Assembly.

The Shop Manual doesn't suggest that it can be removed as an assembly.

It looks like the Cable wire is connected to the underside of the Plate and the Plate should separate from the Insulator underneath it.

Seems like you might be able to get something thin between the Plate and the Insulator under it and pry it loose.

You'll need to remove other parts before you can remove it altogether. At the very least, you would need to remove them in order to reinstall the Horn Contact with the Cable wire.

These reassembly steps might be helpful to understand how far you need to go in order to install the horn wire.

14. Connect turn signal switch control on ball crank in turn signal actuator, mounting cable loop inboard. Install cable bracket screw.

15. Install tilt lever into tilt release actuator.

16. Assemble horn contact and wire through actuator assembly and mast jacket.

17. Move tilt lever up slightly to prevent lock shoes from engaging pins, then install actuator assembly over steering shaft.

18. Align actuator assembly pivot pin holes with pin holes in support assembly and install pivot pins.

19. Raise tilt lever and lift upper steering column to maximum up position.

20. Install upper ends of two return springs with tool J-21181, spring installer.

21. Install turn signal actuator yoke assembly and detent spring.

CAUTION: Check to be sure bell crank is engaged in bracket of yoke assembly.

22. Install upper steering shaft bearing, inner race, seat, retainer, wave washer, and new collapsible spacer.

23. Install snap ring (tru-arc) over steering shaft and against collapsible spacer, then place tool J-21179 and 9/16" ID washer over steering shaft.

I figured it would be useful to list the reassembly steps so you can see what has to get reinstalled AFTER the Horn Contact and wire gets installed.

Note, they don't separately say anything about installing the Insulator so perhaps you can pry it out with the Contact itself.

The images are from the Service Parts Catalog, might be helpful
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  #5  
Old 03-06-2018, 04:06 AM
ERIC60 ERIC60 is offline
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thanks a lot, John;
now it's more clear, I got it!
I got already the parts from "The Parts Place" which is the only one to propose these parts for horn function;
I will change too the cancel cam but now, according to your tips, I realize that I should need a special tool for springs!
oops, I hope Ican manage without!
in any case , thanks again for your help;
cheers
Eric

  #6  
Old 03-06-2018, 10:29 PM
John V. John V. is offline
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Eric, you can usually find these old Kent-Moore tools if you ever need one.

Looks to me that J-21181 isn't real special, see attached pic from an ebay auction. Should be able to make do without it with patience and care or buy one on line if you think you'll need it.

Good luck Post up if you get stuck at any point.

I didn't think the tilt wheel cancel cam was reproduced. Do you have a source and p/n? Is it an exact match to the original?
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  #7  
Old 03-07-2018, 04:07 AM
ERIC60 ERIC60 is offline
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John, I think I will order this tool; anyway, I will start the job on springtime;
now it's not comfortable, there is no heating in my garage!!

for the cancel cam, as I said, "The Part Place " is the only online store where I did find it and also some other parts, such as the horn wire and other bits;
I will keep you posted on my job!!
cheers;
Eric
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  #8  
Old 10-31-2019, 10:47 PM
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Pecosbill Pecosbill is offline
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Eric, did you ever figure out how to thread the horn wire from the contact ring down through the tilt column? I’ve been trying to replace mine but the wire is seemingly impossible to thread down through the column without removing the connector on it.
Bill

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  #9  
Old 11-01-2019, 08:11 PM
John V. John V. is offline
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Bill, I discovered the wire on my Ď64 was broken off the contact ring. I bought an NOS one but havenít installed yet. I believe you can pull the wire off the tab on the contact ring. Maybe you would need to feed it UP from the bottom?

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Old 11-01-2019, 08:18 PM
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My wire broke off the tab, actually the tab broke off the plate. The wire is still in the column. After posting I remembered that I planned to try taping the new wire to the old and pulling it through using the old wire. Not sure that would work but in my mind seemed like it should.

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Old 11-01-2019, 10:08 PM
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John, thatís where I am now. I have a NOS contact ring as the old one got beat up and the wire torn off when I tried to use the POS repop cancel cam.

I finally was able to get the original cancel cam off the old steering wheel so thatís no longer an issue, but replacing the horn contact ring is now the problem.

I tried soldering the wire back on the ring but because the plastic insulator was also broken by that piece of crap cam the horn just blew constantly.

I tied a string to the wire and pulled the string down through the column while pulling the old wire out. Then I tried to attach the new horn ring wire to the string and feed it through the column but itís a no-go. Too many twists and turns inside the column I guess. Tried for a couple of hours. Tried with column tilted in every way possible. The connector seems to be getting hung up inside the column somewhere.

My next attempt will be to feed a piece of 16 gauge wire through the column using the string. If that works then Iím going to cut the horn ring wire about 2-3Ē from the connector and feed the wire through Using the string to pull it, then use a crimp connector to re-attach the connector. If I could find the right connector somewhere Iíd just put a new one on it but Iíve looked all over and canít seem to come up with one.

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Old 11-02-2019, 09:10 AM
John V. John V. is offline
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Bill that is bad news since Iíll probably run into the same thing when I try to install mine.

Am I wrong about being able to pull the wire off off the spade tab on the contact plate? If you can pop it off that end seems to me that end of the wire should more easily pull up thru the column since it isnít much of a connector IIRC.

When I get home next week Iíll be able to look at the part and study it some more. Hopefully weíll figure out a good solution.

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Old 11-02-2019, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John V. View Post
Am I wrong about being able to pull the wire off off the spade tab on the contact plate? If you can pop it off that end seems to me that end of the wire should more easily pull up thru the column since it isnít much of a connector IIRC.
It does not appear that the wire will pull off of the spade as it seems to be permanently attached. I will not be able to get to it today, but will let you know Sunday what I find.

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Old 11-03-2019, 11:04 PM
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John, I checked both the old contact ring wire and the NOS one I have; there’s no pulling that wire off of the contact ring, as it’s a crimped on connection covered in insulation. I’m going to try my idea of running some 16 gauge wire in there as a test and if that works I’m going to cut the NOS wire, pull it through, and then reconnect it using a crimp connector. I wish I could see another way, as I hate the idea of cutting a NOS piece like this but I don’t know what else to do short of pulling the entire steering column. And, even if I did that I’m still not sure I could get that wire fed down through the column with the connector attached to it.

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Old 11-07-2019, 10:14 PM
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Ok, after trying unsuccessfully many, many times to pull the horn wire through the tilt column, I tried a new approach. That wire simply will not feed down through the tilt column with the connector on the end. The first pic shows the setup I tried using to pull the wire through. No dice.

When pulling the old wire out you must pull some else through to take its place. If you just pull the old wire out, you are toast. I mean, pulling out the entire steering column and dismantling it toast. So, what I did was I cut a long piece of twine, about twice as long as the horn wire and then some. Make a loop with the end of the old horn wire and twist it until it has only a small hole in the end. This loop is shown in the middle pic. Put a small piece of tape over the end of the loop so it doesn’t snag on something inside the column. Feed the twine through the loop, stopping at about midway down the length of the twine. Put the tilt column in the straightest configuration you can then gently pull the horn wire back through the column towards the steering wheel. Once the striping appears, disconnect it from the wire and cut the string where it was attached to the wire. You now have two strings passing through the column, just in case one string breaks loose from the new horn wire when you’re pulling it through the column. In fact, that’s actually what happened to me and I was thanking God profusely that He whispered in my ear to use two strings so I’d have a backup.

Take the new horn contact ring and snip the wire off about two or three inches from the end where it plugs into the dash harness horseshoe connector. As before, twist the end of the wire until you make a loop, then tie one of the strings to the loop. Again, I also put a small piece of tape over the end of the wire “twist” so it wouldn’t get hung up inside the steering column if I ended up pulling the loop backwards through the column.

Now feed the wire through the column while gently pulling the string at the opening in the column under the dash. It helps to pull it as straight as you can in line with the column. Once the wire is through, remove the string, undo the twist loop, and use a crimp connector to reconnect the piece of wire you removed earlier that has the dash harness connector on it. Plug it in to the second empty hole from the end on the horseshoe. The first empty hole is for a light in the steering column for automatic column shift cars.

I put mine all back together and the horn doesn’t work. I removed the emblem cap and shorted the plunger button to ground and I had a horn....sometimes. Gotta figure this one out now.
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Old Today, 12:11 AM
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Got it! Horn works now like it should. Back on the road.

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Old Today, 12:40 AM
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Nice work Pecosbill...good thinking with the two strings.

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