[dirty joe]

So any updated pics of shorty headers with a turbo???

[marks73ta]

Joe. I built my second Turbo Pontiac project using the shorty's as turbo headers. I'm having some difficulty getting my pics off of Photobucket. Later today I'll get some shots of my engine on the stand with good shots of the headers.

Mark

[marks73ta]

Pics of how I used the shorty's.







Mark

[dirty joe]

Cool, thanks mark. Howd they hold up to the heat? Im thinking of using them regular towards the back, crossover under engine towards pass side, crossover under the frame, mount turbo on firewall, downpipe along and down the firewall and trans tunnel/floor board

[Kevspontiacs@aol.com]

are those shorties D of RND port? ive looked for RND for a similar set up but haven't found any
thanx Kevin

[marks73ta]

Joe. I have yet to fire the motor so I can't give you any info on how they stand up tot he heat yet. I'm hoping they'll be fine but time and use will tell.
Kevin, these are D-Port headers. As far as I know there are no round port shorties.

Mark

[BruceWilkie]

Kevin you may want to go this route instead... http://www.ramairrestoration.com/pon...port-head.html

Seems at one time someone had a long branch style for round port that would work well(maybe better). PY or Ames???? Seen a Butler turbo build with RA4 manifolds...you might want to talk with them.

You may want to make your own shorties(or have them made) and use heavier gauge tubing with thicker flanges than whats available in shorty D ports. Lots of sources if you do a search over on Yellow Bullet site turbo section. Even shops that will water jet your flanges for you or supply heavy tubing and v band flanges and clamps...

Im going to make my own manifolds(d-port)... they'll be heavy but should work well. Found a clean scrap of 1/2" plate for flanges(way overkill but it was free and enough for an error or two) and Ill use heavy wall steel tube (which doesnt neccesarily need to be round to start with, I can ovalize square or rectangular .125" or thicker wall if need be) . Need to get motor mocked in place to see and measure before hand though... Hate addin weight but strong isnt a bad thing espeacially if I can mount turbos/gates directly to them.

Past 6 months I've had little time for my project or internet forums etc. ...my treatable uncurable cancer(multiple myeloma) went out of remission for awhile... I'm back to remission level and and should be on new "maintenance" level in January... I went 7.5 yrs in remission when they thought I'd only go 6-18 months last time. I'm fine though and just wont be spendin so much time goin for treatments. Still been able to get work at shop done.

[Kevspontiacs@aol.com]

Bruce
im prepared to build a set. even if I found some round ports idk if they'd be big enough. just thought maybe......


good luck in your fight
Kevin

[BruceWilkie]

You dont want big tubes on a turbo app. IIRC Butler is only running 1.875" tubes merged to 2.5". IMO 1.75"(depending on tube thickness) should be fine maybe even smaller. You dont want pipe Id smaller than minimum csa of exhaust port or flange entry off head on flange smaller than exit from head disturbing flow.

Turbine kills any scavenging or pipe length tuning. NA ex velocities in the @ 300ft per sec range are desirable. With a turbo ex velocities in the @ 2000 ft per sec are desirable(which would kill NA power from too much backpressure). This drives the turbine/compressor harder/faster. @2.25" to 2.5" tube after the merge is likely all you want/need as well.

I'm going to use .134" wall 1.75" rollbar tubing (@1.482" ID which is slightly more area than min csa in my ex ports) and making 1/2" flanges. Kind of heavy but plenty strong and tubing should hold up to heat well as it wont expand/contract as fast as thinner 14-16 gauge tubing.

[JD311]

I'm building a set for my e's 2 inch coming out stepped down to 1 3/4. Using a set of new flanges from tin indian, an an old set of d port 1 3/4 that were never used.Loke said you don't need big tubes for a turbo, i just want the 2 inch not to interupt flow. I know its not ideal material, but i may have them copied in stainless later. I was thinking about the ram air manifolds. Wish they had round port long branch so i could put them on backward. My car is a 4th gen camaro BTW, i have an aftermarket k member so it clears up alot of space.

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by JD311

I'm building a set for my e's 2 inch coming out stepped down to 1 3/4. Using a set of new flanges from tin indian, an an old set of d port 1 3/4 that were never used.Loke said you don't need big tubes for a turbo, i just want the 2 inch not to interupt flow. I know its not ideal material, but i may have them copied in stainless later. I was thinking about the ram air manifolds. Wish they had round port long branch so i could put them on backward. My car is a 4th gen camaro BTW, i have an aftermarket k member so it clears up alot of space.

Correct! Off the port exit you dont want the disruption(pipe/flange entry smaller than port exit). Just get it back to smaller tube with a smooth transition from large to small.

Yeah I have a 3rd gen Im building and will be using front/rear motor plates with D ports... Kicking myself for selling my old 59 long branches several yrs ago... with reversed sides they'd have been perfect (even with stock K member).

[JD311]

I have a '59 block as well Bruce, they seem to be popular these days lol.

[BruceWilkie]

Just re-read my post(#49)... it needs help.

Keep in mind the turbine is sensitive to velocity, pressure, and heat.

Pipe id with area same as port exit is ok.

Pipe id larger than port exit will lose velocity, pressure, and heat.

Pipe id with area smaller than minimum csa of the port will choke the motor early so you dont want to go too small of a pipe either.

The turbine housing increases exhaust gas velocity to somewhere around 2000 ft per second(or more). This is necessary because the tip speed of the turbine wheel could be just a few hundred ft per second slower as you go up in boost. If exhaust gas comes out of the ex port at 300ft per second(avg) you cant gain very much if you slow it down(large pipe) to 100 ft per second just so you can speed it up to 2000 ft per sec in the turbine housing.

Keep in mind each cylinders exhaust event starts with a very high pressure, velocity, and temperature when the ex valve 1st opens and as the cylinder empties it has dropped to much lower pressure, velocity, and temperature as well. The correctly sized pipe will help keep the velocity, pressure and temp at a higher average. A larger than needed pipe will dampen turbine response(slow spool time) and can even cause the turbo to not be able to make as much boost as it should.

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by JD311

I have a '59 block as well Bruce, they seem to be popular these days lol.

I had 2 blocks... when I sold my 59 Catalina I couldnt be there the day the guy was picking it up(I was in Atlanta training newbies). My wife gave him the #s matching bare block not knowing it wasnt part of the deal... He tried to refuse it but she had the boys throw it on his trailer anyway. That was a 4 bolt AN420 tripower block.

My remaining 59 block is just a 2 bolt drilled std 2 barrel variety but otherwise same casting... much better really as I can put splayed caps on it.

[dirty joe]

Bringing this back up. Could you cut the flange off a d-port shorty and weld on a round port flange?

[68azbird]

Not that simple due to the spread of the center exhaust ports.

[BruceWilkie]

For amount of work its not much more to just build a set. Then you can use thicker wall pipe etc and custom fit.

[taff2]

I bought a set of Summit SBC weld up shorty kit headers and substituted the SBC flanges for a pair of Pontiac flanges.