GTO Failure from the Goat's mouth... - PY Online Forums

HUMBLER · #1 02-23-2007, 11:01 AM

I love the fact that Bob is not a terribly good speaker, most car guys aren't!

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../70212001/1151

pont3 · #2 02-24-2007, 12:24 AM

He may be a failure as a speaker but the GTO is definately not a failure. Sales may not have been great but the car isn't the reason. At least in my opinion. Every time I think about what the car should have been, I think about what my options were prior to it. Then I realize my prayers have indeed, been answered. Thank you Mr Lutz.

Karch · #3 02-24-2007, 03:26 AM

I just heard what he had to say, and with regards to the mistakes with the GTO, I think he was quite accurate.

The one point he left out was that the '04 model should have never come out with single side exit exhaust and a flat hood, IMO. If you want a sleeper, name it a Lemans or something else. When was GTO ever a sleeper?

I do see a lot of them here in SoCal. There were close to a dozen at the POCI drags. I see them daily on the road, and some with Prochargers.

He was right about price points...they really missed it on that one. They could have grabbed quite a few Mustang buyers if they had it in the mid 20's, but what do I know...I don't have access to their cost and balance sheets.

Also, most of the local dealers are real douchebags when it came to looking at them and even a test drive. That is until they weren't selling. They were even marking them up! I went in Dec '04 and could have bought one, by then, for $23.9K, but I said forget it...it's a good price, but the LS2 and dual exhaust, nicer hood, cars are on the way...I'm not giving away 50 horsepower that easy

Oh...there are some Z06's available at MSRP, if anyone is interested.

87LC2 · #4 02-24-2007, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pont3

He may be a failure as a speaker but the GTO is definately not a failure. Sales may not have been great but the car isn't the reason. At least in my opinion. Every time I think about what the car should have been, I think about what my options were prior to it. Then I realize my prayers have indeed, been answered. Thank you Mr Lutz.

+1
Thanks Bob, great car.
If anybody knows GM, the last model year of a car GEN is the best. They have it perfected then they cancel it

The new GTO is a keeper.

HUMBLER · #5 02-24-2007, 12:24 PM

He certainly didn't argue it as a failure though, which kind of surprised me. I guess I don't like the term but...

red70goat · #6 03-02-2007, 01:39 AM

He still won't admit to trying to gouge the consumer by bastardizing a legendary name on a cheaply made generic car..... " We won't go into why it was overpriced"....C.mon Bob, the gig is up!

HUMBLER · #7 03-02-2007, 10:34 AM

There is only one person "bastardizing" here...

Mr_GTO · #8 03-02-2007, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red70goat

He still won't admit to trying to gouge the consumer by bastardizing a legendary name on a cheaply made generic car..... " We won't go into why it was overpriced"....C.mon Bob, the gig is up!

So he admitted they priced it too high. What's the problem? If it wasn't for him there would be no Solstice, no HHR, no GTO, no Sky, no Aura, etc.

Karch · #9 03-02-2007, 02:34 PM

Personally, I rather Lutz make some mistakes and learn from them than not be at GM.

He is a car guy, he likes performance, he loves cars. He is not a CPA type numbers cruncher that tend to make money for the shareholders, piss off the employees, and put out dull and faulty product ("so what if it fails, as long as it's outside the warranty period").

pont3 · #10 03-03-2007, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red70goat

He still won't admit to trying to gouge the consumer by bastardizing a legendary name on a cheaply made generic car..... " We won't go into why it was overpriced"....C.mon Bob, the gig is up!

You know, Red, if the GTO had a MSRP similar to that of the SRT8 Chryslers, or the GT500, or a '94 Supra, or a '93 Twin Turbo 300Z, I'd be inclined to agree with you. But for 33k and 400 horses, and, after over two years of ownership of this "cheaply made" GTO, I can say, unequivocably, you are dead wrong. Yes, there are areas where cost cutting shows, but overall, this is an extremely well built car. But you'll never know for yourself. This car does what a GTO has always done. Puts a smile on the driver's face and makes most other cars small objects in the rearview mirror.

Zig'sbird · #11 03-03-2007, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karch

Personally, I rather Lutz make some mistakes and learn from them than not be at GM.

I have to agree here. Since he admitted the price problem, hopefully he can then address the dealership's markups.

dancolkate · #12 03-03-2007, 05:02 PM

Basically he said the car should have been pushed harder on the west-coast where the Ricer-lovers could install LED curb feelers and 9" diameter exhaust tips. The car failed for all the reasons he stated.

Not a bad car....just named wrong, ugly and overpriced.

If nothing else, I admire his honesty.

Mr_GTO · #13 03-04-2007, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancolkate

Basically he said the car should have been pushed harder on the west-coast where the Ricer-lovers could install LED curb feelers and 9" diameter exhaust tips. The car failed for all the reasons he stated.

Not a bad car....just named wrong, ugly and overpriced.

If nothing else, I admire his honesty.

Priced wrong? Probably.

Ugly? Totally subjetive

Named Wrong? no way. It was better than ANY GTO produced before it and it was on part performance wise with the way the Corvette has emerged.

87LC2 · #14 03-04-2007, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red70goat

He still won't admit to trying to gouge the consumer by bastardizing a legendary name on a cheaply made generic car..... " We won't go into why it was overpriced"....C.mon Bob, the gig is up!

Quote:

Basically he said the car should have been pushed harder on the west-coast where the Ricer-lovers could install LED curb feelers and 9" diameter exhaust tips. The car failed for all the reasons he stated.

Not a bad car....just named wrong, ugly and overpriced.

This site is like a Klan meeting for '04~'06 GTO's

My buddy has a 2005 Mustang and he likes my '06 goat more than the closed minded ones on this site. The more I visit here the more I want to flip off old Pontiacs I see on the road...j/k
If you don't like the car hit the bricks, this forum is for 2004 to 2006 chat, not uninformed hate mongering.

pont3 · #15 03-04-2007, 10:10 PM

Thing is, who could possibly predict the perfect resurgent car after a 30 year hiatus and get EVERYTHING acceptable to EVERYONE? At least Lutz had the Gutz to try and he did get quite a few details spot on. A few loons hold out for a Poncho V8 and some complain about styling. The rest of us have been enjoying the first mid-sized rwd V8 coupe from GM since the eighties. And despite the thinking on this board, the car is GAINING popularity.

dancolkate · #16 03-04-2007, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 87LC2

This site is like a Klan meeting for '04~'06 GTO's

My buddy has a 2005 Mustang and he likes my '06 goat more than the closed minded ones on this site. The more I visit here the more I want to flip off old Pontiacs I see on the road...j/k
If you don't like the car hit the bricks, this forum is for 2004 to 2006 chat, not uninformed hate mongering.

I was responding to a video link that was posted. Even after the Big Poncho Chief admits the car was a failure, you are still defending it...unreal.

This is an open forum to discuss the 04-06 GTO.....good or bad....so GFY. Just because you are happy driving around in a Holden with a Chevy motor, that looks just like a Honda Accord, doesn't mean jack.

Mr_GTO · #17 03-05-2007, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancolkate

I was responding to a video link that was posted. Even after the Big Poncho Chief admits the car was a failure, you are still defending it...unreal.

This is an open forum to discuss the 04-06 GTO.....good or bad....so GFY. Just because you are happy driving around in a Holden with a Chevy motor, that looks just like a Honda Accord, doesn't mean jack.

Dan, ever drive a new GTO? If not I suggest you do. Take one for a drive and then let us know what you think.

dancolkate · #18 03-05-2007, 08:43 AM

When the Monero first hit the US, I visited my local Pontiac dealer. Like many others, I was absolutely amazed that they weren't allowing test drives. I make plenty of money to buy one of those things. The dealers were treating them like some exotic that could only be driven by Italian F1 drivers. No thanks. Same thing happened to a friend of mine in TN, he owns his owns business and buys a new car every year...

Truth is, the car has a tried and true drive train. And EVERYTHING I've read indicates the interior is world class. Thats it.

BUT, the car is:

- A Holden...designed and built in Australia. For those import haters, it doesn't get any more imported than this.

- Ugly.....Eveytime I see one....I think ugly. This is my opinion.

- You say "priced wrong" haha...I say overpriced.

87LC2 · #19 03-05-2007, 01:25 PM

Funny, I went looking for a blue one and went to a dealer that had two advertised. The dealer had a Cyclone Grey auto but no blue, I told the salesman I was looking for the blue they had in their add. He offered me a test drive knowing I was looking for a car they did not have. Maybe wanting to buy a car is different than just wanting to drive one.

Like I was saying...HATE:

Quote:

This is an open forum to discuss the 04-06 GTO.....good or bad....so GFY.

I think I hear junk rusting

dancolkate · #20 03-05-2007, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 87LC2

Funny, I went looking for a blue one and went to a dealer that had two advertised. The dealer had a Cyclone Grey auto but no blue, I told the salesman I was looking for the blue they had in their add. He offered me a test drive knowing I was looking for a car they did not have. Maybe wanting to buy a car is different than just wanting to drive one.

Like I was saying...HATE:

I think I hear junk rusting

Selling your classic to afford the Monero I see. You belong on ls1.com with all the other Chevrolet guys.