[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Chief,
Nice picture you posted along side Jim and the Jim's '65 GTO. I put the deal together for Jim to buy that '65 from one of my friends here in Detroit. Don't tell any one but that GTO originally came from California. Made its way to Detroit. Then Jim took it back to California. It was originally a white four bbl car. The prior owner, Ron Flurrie,painted it red, put a tri-power on it and had Jim Wangers personal engine builder, Ducan Michael rebuild the 389. The car sat a little higher and had all chrome rally I's on it before Jim made some changes to it to a more stock appearance.
When the car was here it ran 13.5's. I understand the engine has been gone through again resently in California and the car runs even stronger now.

[Navy Chief]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Chief,
Nice picture you posted along side Jim and the Jim's '65 GTO. I put the deal together for Jim to buy that '65 from one of my friends here in Detroit. Don't tell any one but that GTO originally came from California. Made its way to Detroit. Then Jim took it back to California. It was originally a white four bbl car. The prior owner, Ron Flurrie,painted it red, put a tri-power on it and had Jim Wangers personal engine builder, Ducan Michael rebuild the 389. The car sat a little higher and had all chrome rally I's on it before Jim made some changes to it to a more stock appearance.
When the car was here it ran 13.5's. I understand the engine has been gone through again resently in California and the car runs even stronger now.

Dr. Thanks for more of the inside story, Yes the 65 is a healthy beast to say the least, unforunately I never got to see it run in the 1/4, San Diego only has Barona Raceway which is an 1/8 mile, we did talk about the history of the car.
Before I left they were putting a lot of time into the Verdoro Green Firebird with some suspension work, and the engine was going to be upgraded.
Thanks for sending me the link to the RPCOA and the invitation to park at the dealer for the Woodward cruise, you did mention some of your members are from Ohio any of them from Toledo or nearby? I will try to attend one of your meetings time willing.
Maybe I can go with my 66.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

The Verdoro Green Firebird was a numbers matching 400 with a black vinyl top when it left Detroit. Jim has had that car for a number of years before we shipped it with all of the other Tans Am's (69,79,89) to California. One by one Jim's other cars made their way from Detroit to California. '04 GTO, (2)Grand Nationals, (2)Monti Carlos, '74 Trans Am and '69 Judge. Just to name a few.
Unfortunately, Jim allowed the guys there to modify that car which had been a very reliable car.
After it's new paint, minus vinyl top, new engine and suspension it was not the same car. It would have been better to have done all of those mods to a non original car. I know that car had a lot of reliability problems after the mods.
I'll get back to you with the info of other Ohio Members. Most guys come from work to the meets and don't drive their Pontiac's. So don't sweat it if you think it might be a long trip with your classic. One of the Ohio members, Lance Warner, has a nice looking 66 GTO Tri-power. You'll have to ask Lance how I helped him get totally stock 389 4speed car from the 15's to high 13's one morning after at Milan Dragway.

[Chief Wanabee]

Dr. Schiffer, can you please tell us more about Wanger's Monza? I assume that he built one up due to his being a Chevy dealer in the mid 70's. I thought he had only run Pontiacs as performance cars in his life, so this came as a bit of a surprise.

Thanks
Bob

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

If you have been to any of the Drag Strip events Jim has been to over the years, you would know that Jim has not just brung a Pontiac. For years it had been the '74 Red T/A and the '78 white Monticarlo called "PontiCarlo". For years both cars ran a 440 cid engine. Jim even had a Chevy sububan that was converted from a light blue to a black and gold truck with a 455 cid with round port heads and a shaker hood. We used called it the Bandit. (after approx 300,000 mile the frame was very weak and the truck was sold)

In 1997 we showed up to Norwalk with three cars. Ed Dufrene driving the '74 red T/A that was running in the mid to high 9's. Robert Johnson driving the PontiCarlo running in the low to mid 10's and me with a LT-4 6 speed Firehawk SLP wanted Jim to test out. I ran what our group felt was a disappointing but consistant 13.99 while most of the stock LT-1 Firehawks ran 14.40's and slower. Ed broke the drive shaft of the red T/A during an exhibition run against the Bag Boys 8 second '63 Tempest Wagon. I broke the shifter in the fourth round of the street class after being thrown out of the Firehawk groups exhibiton rounds as being a ringer, a professional driver, out of the Wangers camp....LOL These Firehawk guys take themsleves much too seriously.....

Jim has had a......shall we say a real world street testing program for years. Jim, even though he took Dick Jess with him as the General mgr and opened Jim Wangers Chevrolet in Wisconsin he never really broke ties with the McMannis, John and Adams advertizing agency. Jim did have several limited products coming out of his dealership until the Federal Government had a crack down on dealerships building hot rods. Jim was put out as an example by the government. Jim got out of the dealership bussiness and moved perminately back to Detroit.

Jim Picked up where he left off by making some of the cars he had stored way into street terriors. He ordered a '75 Monza built for California. The California built cars had 350's while the rest of the country got 305's.

He had a driver named Fred Foreman who suggested an engine builder, Duncan Michael and his brother Gordon Michael. Duncan had worked with some of the Detroit areas best. Duncin worked with Bob Schafer build the engines that had gone into John Greenwoods corvettes. Bob was a genius with head porting and flow. You will see Bob Schafer's name on many Chevrolets of the day as the engine builder or head porter. The location of Bob Schafer's shop on Thunderbird in Troy, was like "hot rod" row in it's day. You had Richard Maskin with his Dart Heads, Jim Kinsler with his fuel injection systems, Jim Cornell engine building machine and balanceing shop, John Greenwood, and a company that specialized in nitrous oxide systems and many more automotive shops.

The Monza became the go to car if any one got by Jim's '74 red T/A or the little faster '77 Silver T/A. The Monza was in several magazines in the day. "Fast" Freddie Foreman calculated the Monza in it's peak was a very low 9 second high 8 second car with it's small block. Duncan and Fred continually up graded the car.

Jim also worked with Chrysler Marketing in the '80's on the Omni and Charger coined the name GLH..."Goes Like Hell". Jim thought that the supercharged 2.2 was going to be the next super car and built up a '86-87 Chrysler Charger. It never amounted to much. The car was scraped.

Jim also had a sence of humor. Jim had two white '77-78 Monticarlos. Both with a formal roof cap extensions built by a company he owned, Evan's Industies. One Monti was a small block Chevy powered and Nitrous and ran mid 10's. The Chevy powered one was gutted and had a '69 Camaro style cowl induction hood. After years being on the street of Detroit Jim took it to California and sold it to the current "PontiCarlo" driver Robert Johnson.

The other one was/is a Pontiac powered Monti with a Trans Am shaker hood that is known as the "PontiCarlo". With Robert Johnson behind the wheel and Duncan Michael still building the cars engines that car runs in the 8's. This is Jim's real pride and joy. This car always had a rear license plate frame that says, "Don't Worry It's Only A Pontiac". This car stared out as a nice 12 second chase car on the motor and high 10's on the bottle with power windows, locks air conditioning, headlight covers.....loaded. There was always slick on the cars....

The current '66 Geeto Tiger is a nice novelty car that gives Jim the excuse to travel the country with spomsorship money. Butler engine, Year One etc.

Back in the day Jim Wangers' Street Race/Testing program consisted of....'75 red Monza, '77-78 white Monticarlo, '77-78 white "PontiCarlo", '74 red T/A, '77 silver T/A, '87 black Grand National with a Kenny Bell 3.8 turbo, '87 blue Buick T-Type Skylark with a 4.2 liter block and turbo that Duncan Michael and Bob Schafer built. Both Buicks ran in the mid to low 12's.

Bob Schafer went out to California to build Jim's white Chevy Berreta into a high performance nitrous powered car.

In July 1997 my wife and I drove two ealy production 1998 Chevy's from Detroit to Vista, California for testing at Jim's company. Jim was going to meet us there when he came back from a presentation in Georgia. We droped off the Chevy's at Jim's company AMCI and drove off with Jim's modified '96 Impala SS to pick Jim up at LAX. That was Jim's daily driver then. Since Jim has had a red Grand Prix GTX and now drives a modified 8 cyl Grand Prix GTP.

One by one the cars made it out to California. red '74 T/A. '67 Firebird 400, '69 T/A, '79 T/A and '89 T/A. Then the Monti's '74 T/A, blue T-Type.
The silver '77 T/A made it's way to Nick Codova, one of Jim's drivers earlier. The '75 red Monza ended up with Ed Dufrene in Florida. About 5-6 years ago the '87 black Grand National went out there. Jim's '69 Detroit based Judge left here last year.

Jim also owns a right hand drive Callaway Holden Commodore.

In approx. January 2004 I picked up Jim's new red GTO and broke it in hard for the first 500 miles then shipped that car out to California about a month later.

To bad I'm not very good at figuring out how to down load some of the old pictures insde Jim's shop. The shop was in the back of Jim's Detroit/Warren offices back then.

Does this help?

[cuz68]

SIR DR. Eric M. Schiffer, I wont to thank you for all of the info that you and everyone have shared with us, All i can say is WOW. It took me over 4hrs to read this great info I love your blackbird. Thank you Randy. Please feed us more.

[Chief Wanabee]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

If you have been to any of the Drag Strip events Jim has been to over the years, you would know that Jim has not just brung a Pontiac.

....Does this help?

Yes, thanks for the great explanation and background, I appreciate it. I haven't been to any Pontiac or dragstrip events in the USA - lack of time and money raising family right now. I will someday but not for the next few years.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Bob,
You do know that is was Jim Wangers who proposed your Can AM. Ben Harrison pitched it to management and it was Jim's company, Motortown that built the cars. Brass never know Jim had anything to do with Motortown.
There was a show car based on the Lemans a few years earlier that ran around the streets of suburban Detroit called the "ALL AMERICAN" with simular striping of the Can Am.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

I just re-read the part I said about Jim's Monte Carlos. Let me make a correction. The two are 1987's not '77-78. What's 10 years amoung friends? Sorry.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

I got a call from both John "Cheater" Politzer and "Fast" Freddie Foreman. They want to meet up on Woodward, in Birmingham, this coming Saturday morning, 8am to 10am, for our Auto Zone Book Store car guy gathering. Breakfast afterwards.
This is always a hoot with these two guys who had both driven for Jim Wangers but never knew each other until a few years ago. They raced in different era's. John through the '60's- early 70's and was the '66 Geeto Tiger's "Mystery Tiger". John was the orginal Driver of the '68 Black Bird. Freddie didn't come on board until late '70's after John stepped away.
They both have extemely different personalities. John is the "Fonz" cool. While Fred is very much more extraverted and can get in your face confident. Both very great guys.

[Chief Wanabee]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Bob,
You do know that is was Jim Wangers who proposed your Can AM.

Yes, I'm pretty familiar with that aspect of Jim's escapades.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

One of our Royal Pontiac Club members owned an injection mold company in Oak Park near Motortown. He did some emblems for that car. When the car went out of production Jim went over to the shop and took the dies for the molds and had them distroyed.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Back in the day....Black Bird Story. The police pulled the Blackbird over one night "just because". They sighted the guys for "defective equiptment": No windshield wipers,(The wiper motor and wipers had been removed and a fiberglass soild cowl vent replaced the original) for weight saving), bald tires (The car had slicks), no side view mirror (wind resistance). The ticket would be dismissed when the car was inspected and everything worked.
Instead of putting everything back on the car Brian Ballish asked some girl who had a black '68 Firebird if they could have her car for a few hours. They took her car to the police station for the inspection. The police never looked at the VIN to see if it was the same car. The ticket was dismissed.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

One night while racing on I-75 John Politzer almost lost control of the Blackbird when a trans line came loose. The car spun into the grassy median. As John discribed it, "I ended up going about 120 backwards. I ended up just driving out of the median on the other side and drove back where I came from".

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

At the Dream Cruise around Jim Wangers used to give a wonderful presentation called "The Anatomy of the Muscle Car". One year, 1996 or '97 while talking to a packed house, close to 300, with both Frankie Ulrick and John Poltizer in attendance at Birmingham's Baldwin Library. A gentleman in the front row asked Jim how fast was that Firebird of yours? Jim asked which one? The '68 black one. Jim has always only admited to 11 flat and this is what he said to the audiance. The gentleman said, "no f---ing way. My car ran 11.30 and your car disappeared like it was shot out of a cannon". With a hardy laugh Jim's reply was, "You know 11 flat against an 11.30 it looks much greater." The gentleman laughed and said, "to this day you still won't tell any one how fast that car really was."
Jim, "Next question?"

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

One thing I forgot to mention about Jim Wangers' street testing program. The most important aspect of it was that Jim had a great attorney by the name of John O'Neal. As far as I know every one that had been ticketed did get off when they went to court.
John passed away just a few years ago.

One great story is when some guy and John Politzer had to go to court. John O'Neal represented Politzer. The guy tells the judge that there some bounty out there that if any one could beat Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac's street cars in a drag race you get $1,000.00. Now the guy just admited to trying to race or racing.

O'Neal called for a minutes resess to check with Jim Wangers as to who the GTO was registered to. It was to Jim and not the dealership or PMD.

O'Neal came back and explained to the Judge that Mr. Polizter was driving his bosses car,Mr, Jim Wangers. That this guy just kept harrarssing his client. Since Mr. Politzer is responsible for the car there is no way he would want to lose his job with Mr. Wangers over some childish action.

John Politzer got off scott free. The other guy was sighted for reckless driving.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

I will have the Black Bird on display at the Woodward Dream Cruise. The car will be at Jim Fresard Buick, GMC on Woodward Ave in Ferndale. Between 8 Mile Rd and 9 Mile Rd. We will be there with the Royal Pontiac Club of America.

These are the people that bought Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac. Fresard moved the dealership onto Woodward a few years ago and closed the old Royal on 400 N. Main St. in Royal Oak.

Unfortunately, Jim Wangers and John "The Cheater" Politzer the Black Birds first driver, will not be in town for the Dream Cruise this year. Brian Ballish, the cars builder is planing on being there.

I found a couple of the old magazines the Black Bird was in and will try to figure out how to scan them and put them up. "Popular Hot Rodding", March 1971, and "Car Craft" magazine January ,1972 (?)

Hope to see you there!

[The Boss]

Doc, any chance you'll have the car at Norwalk?

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

I found a couple of the old magazines the Black Bird was in and will try to figure out how to scan them and put them up. "Popular Hot Rodding", March 1971, and "Car Craft" magazine January ,1972 (?)

Hope to see you there!

Eric - I can help with scanning and posting, if you can get those over to me.

K

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Boss,
John Politzer, my wife and I will be at Norwalk Friday afternoon to visit with Jim Wangers. Unfortunately, due to time constraints it is not worth getting the car ready to just trailer the car down for a few hours. Then trailer it back to Detroit.
Eric