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Rockhead400 · 02-15-2003, 03:33 PM

I am so tired of hearing this. I rebuilt my pontiac 400 with stock hi comp heads and stock crank, rods, and some good stuff. My brother, a Chevy man, had a fit because I refused to drop a crate chevy motor in the 67 GTO. Some folks just dont get it. Nothing is cooler than a Pontiac muscle car with the correct engine in it, and yes it hauls ass too. Yes, it did cost more per HP and I probably could have saved some money by going Chevy, but I dont really know if thats true. I only spent $4650 to build my Ponitac, a complete running engine. Crate motors are not necessarily any cheaper. Its not all about power, but the nostalgia of a true Pontiac that has pontiac power. If you want real speed build a rail.

Pontiac's that haul ass with Pontiac engines!

Rockhead400 · 02-15-2003, 03:33 PM

I am so tired of hearing this. I rebuilt my pontiac 400 with stock hi comp heads and stock crank, rods, and some good stuff. My brother, a Chevy man, had a fit because I refused to drop a crate chevy motor in the 67 GTO. Some folks just dont get it. Nothing is cooler than a Pontiac muscle car with the correct engine in it, and yes it hauls ass too. Yes, it did cost more per HP and I probably could have saved some money by going Chevy, but I dont really know if thats true. I only spent $4650 to build my Ponitac, a complete running engine. Crate motors are not necessarily any cheaper. Its not all about power, but the nostalgia of a true Pontiac that has pontiac power. If you want real speed build a rail.

Pontiac's that haul ass with Pontiac engines!

goatless · 02-15-2003, 06:35 PM

God bless you! Pontiacs deserve Pontiac power.
I don't want to piss any one off, I know there are some people here with what we'll call "corporate motors". There is a real nice Lemans around here. The first time I saw it I walked over excited to see a new Pontiac out. My excitement faded fast when I saw the 502 under the hood.

larry davis · 02-15-2003, 10:04 PM

You can get a "crate motor" from KRE, da' Dude, JBP, Spotts, and even that guy on the West coast.
What's his name again?

SECOND AMENDMENT: AMERICA'S ORIGINAL HOMELAND SECURITY.
I Misus Rash'!

LouisianaGuy · 02-15-2003, 10:27 PM

Its always cool for me to be the only Pontiac at the track...Aside form the New RAm-Air Firebirds...My car gets WAY more attention thoe even thoe it has a bit o rust in the quarters and a tore up seat...folks just like to see a Pontiac out there.
Mike

SuperPhil · 02-16-2003, 12:58 AM

There are some great crate motors out there, and they are something I am definitely looking at in the future. You get a dyno proven combo with a warranty. But I WILL NOT stick one a car that originally came with a Pontiac motor!

I hate seeing Chevy engines in Pontiac cars. If I get a 350 or 502 crate motor, the only way it goes into a Pontiac is if it's a 3rd Gen Firebird which came with the corporate crap to begin with.

1994 Formula
1988 GTA
1989 SHO
1987 GN
1978 T/A

PONCHOMAN · 02-17-2003, 04:04 PM

AAAAMEN SuperPhil.
I was going to buy a restored 66 GTO and then I opened the hood and caught a glimpse of the Chevy engine and I immeadiatly (about the time it took me to get the hood all the way open) told the guy that I wasn't interested. He wanted to know why and I told him.

Chevy engines are ok in vehicles that they "ORIGINALLY" came in but I don't like to see a "Corporate Engine" in a Pontiac that was powered by a Poncho engine. No affence to all of the Corporate guys out there.

Rockhead400 · 02-23-2003, 05:01 PM

I agree with Ponchoman. I like all kinds of muscle cars, including Pontiac, Chevy, Olds, Buick and even some Stangs and Chargers. Can you imagine popping the hood on a 69 Charger RT to find a Chevy crate engine. I feel the same way about a crate in my pontiac. Its just kinda of like drinking non-alcoholic beer. Why? Parts are available and its worth the extra effort.

Pontiac's that haul ass with Pontiac engines!

sleepy · 02-23-2003, 11:10 PM

Danny. Tell your brother-It's my car I'll do it my way. If you want to make your car a MUTT go and do it. Thats what I'd say to him.

dlw6767 · 03-07-2003, 03:33 AM

i came close to puttin my 502 in my gto.buttt! i rebuilt the 455 instead, glad i did, it sounds great and hauls a.., well you know the rest!

GTOCRAZY67.....ALWAYS LOOKIN FOR A GREEN LIGHT..

455T/A · 03-08-2003, 10:50 AM

You guys would be surprised to know that Chevy engines came in Pontiacs built for Canada way back in the sixtys.

Steve Barcak · 03-10-2003, 11:41 PM

The cost issue of using a brand x engine in a Pontiac comes up from time to time not only here but other places as well. My .02 is. To whoever is procheb or prokrate and maybe others here will agree...... WHY is the cost such an issue when deciding on a possible engine swap for enconomic reasons? This may sound foolish on the surface but, really. This is what I tell many on the subject. If you are such a "gear head" and a car guy, why is the cost such an issue? Do you put the cheapest paint job on your car? Do you buy recaps? Do you use cheapo auto parts store seat covers? Do you live in the cheapest house possible? Do you go to garage sales for your clothes? Do you have your girlfriend/wife because she is the cheapest one you can find? Think about it. If you like cars so much, why are some people so cheap on the cost issue of running a REAL Pontiac?
Cheapest wheels? I could go on and on. How about the food we eat. If cost is such an issue, you could get by on mac 'n cheese and oatmeal but, most people like a good steak once in a while. If you enjoy your car so much, why would anybody put in the cheapest thing between the fenders you could? That sounds liek something a guy with a volkswagon or a rambler would do not a car guy. The extra expense (if their is actualy one) of using a Real Pontiac is more than worth it. It makes no sense to switch. Would you put in the cheapest stereo you can find? Do you have a 10" black and white in your living room?
Also, there are ways that prove that a cheb swap is more costly costly than may would think. If your car is an automatic, that cheby 400thm will cost you way more than the Pontiac one will. And you will have to buy brackets, motor mounts, stater motor, flexplate, exhaust and on and on. Chevs are goofy and hard to work on too. If you have worked on both Pontiacs and chevs you know this. Let's list some of the things that show how a chev is engineered poorly and more difficult to service or hot rod than a Pontiac. How about that goofy fuel pump shaft gismo. The dumb motor mounts were the nut isn't welded into the mount like the Pontiac is. How about the way most of 'em have the A/c mounted on the left side of the car so the hoses have to drap across the engine? What about when you want to pull the intake or even the heads? On a chev, you have to pull the dist (and it is even longer on the chev than the Pontiac so it is harder to install). How about having to use a puller for the balancer? And all the diferent one too? A few others, the timing cover has to have the pan down to r and r it, the intake surface angle is not 90 degrees to the deck making milling and aligning more difficult. There are so many reasons NOT to run a chev even in a chev. If the chev guys were smart (and some are) you put a Pontiac in the chev. Another thing about using a crate motor is that it shows you have no ability to build an engine yourself. You are advertising your inability. "I just took it out of a box and dropped it in". Wow, that's hot rodding NOT. Even if you can't build your own engine, still get with someone who can. The Pontiac is the best engine ever designed and has yet to reach its development peak, the interchange is without parallel. Keep it real. Keep it Pontiac. Steve www.pontiacheaven.org REAL Pontiacs Only... NO corporate Nonsense!

[This message was edited by Steve Barcak on March 11, 2003 at 01:53 AM.]

andrewb70 · 03-10-2003, 11:50 PM

Give it a rest already.

Andrew

Project GatTagO

'ol Pinion head · 03-11-2003, 04:28 AM

VERY relevant points Steve, keep 'em coming.

----------------------------------------------------------Love those GM 502 crate motors, esp the ones with sawdust down the distributer holes

Rick Lightfoot · 03-11-2003, 08:33 AM

Well said Steve.

I wouldn't mind one of those crate Hemi's under the hood of my car.

andrewb70 · 03-11-2003, 03:20 PM

There you go Rick

Hemi crate engine

Sawdust makes you go faster.

Andrew

Project GatTagO

Donovan · 03-11-2003, 06:27 PM

Well said Steve!

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
1968 Firebird Coupe
350 HO
TH350
3.23's
PS, PDB and Deluxe interior

GPE Starter MSD billet
Rodney Red Rad MSD 6a

Currently apart for suspension upgrades.

TA454 · 03-11-2003, 07:36 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steve Barcak:

Also, there are ways that prove that a cheb swap is more costly costly than may would think. If your car is an automatic, that cheby 400thm will cost you way more than the Pontiac one will. And you will have to buy brackets, motor mounts, stater motor, flexplate, exhaust and on and on. Chevs are goofy and hard to work on too. If you have worked on both Pontiacs and chevs you know this. Let's list some of the things that show how a chev is engineered poorly and more difficult to service or hot rod than a Pontiac. How about that goofy fuel pump shaft gismo. The dumb motor mounts were the nut isn't welded into the mount like the Pontiac is. How about the way most of 'em have the A/c mounted on the left side of the car so the hoses have to drap across the engine? What about when you want to pull the intake or even the heads? On a chev, you have to pull the dist (and it is even longer on the chev than the Pontiac so it is harder to install). How about having to use a puller for the balancer? And all the diferent one too? A few others, the timing cover has to have the pan down to r and r it, the intake surface angle is not 90 degrees to the deck making milling and aligning more difficult. There are so many reasons NOT to run a chev even in a chev. If the chev guys were smart (and some are) you put a Pontiac in the chev. Another thing about using a crate motor is that it shows you have no ability to build an engine yourself. You are advertising your inability. "I just took it out of a box and dropped it in". Wow, that's hot rodding NOT. Even if you can't build your own engine, still get with someone who can. The Pontiac is the best engine ever designed and has yet to reach its development peak, the interchange is without parallel. Keep it real. Keep it Pontiac. Steve
REAL Pontiacs Only... NO corporate Nonsense!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GET REAL!!
The cost of the trans is less due to availability.If your gonna go with real HP a stock starter will not work any how makes that a NON ISSUE. SFI flexplate is less than half of a pontiac.Gotta buy headers anyhow again a non issue. stock mounts only need to be relocated to the other set of holes in the crossmember.Besides if your gonna go fast your gonna use solid mounts so another non issue.Fuel pump pushrod is not a problem. Have to use electric pump to go fast. AC hoses now thats a joke in a race car-dream up a real excuse. Pulling the intake is no big deal. Chevy heads have enough bolts to seal the heads. No need to remove them.
As far as engineering how bout them Cast cranks!HA-HA.Looks like someone dropped the ball on that one. What bout flow numbers- no comparison.
It also seems that a lot of the fast pontiac engines out there are using Big Block Chevy internals (Rods,Pistons,and so on).Just my .02

68 Prix · 03-11-2003, 08:07 PM

Why not buy a Chevy if the motors are so cheep? Heck the whole cars are usually cheeper. Unless you want the popular 55-57 Chevies. The plain jane Chevelles are usually cheeper than the Tempest I see and quite a bit more common. Also alot more parts for Chevies then the Pontiac on every area of the car. Maybe that is because I got A full size Pontiac and an Early Tempest

. I say Pontiac only in my Pontiacs. If you want a K-mart priced motor you get K-mart quallity though

. Just my thoughts.

andrewb70 · 03-11-2003, 09:52 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 68 Prix:
If you want a K-mart priced motor you get K-mart quallity though

. Just my thoughts.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Give me a break. The reason I built a Pontiac is because it looks better then any car Chevy ever made. I don't even want to go into the reasons to use corporate power. The list is like the Energizer Bunny....it keeps going..and going..and going....

Andrew

Project GatTagO

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