[Gary S.]

I wonder if this has ever been done?

[JSAauto]

What is it with you guys in Texas?? Nothing else better to do?? (kidding)

[kookykrispy]

sell the 455 to me and I'll hook you up on a deal for a running 454 in el paso

please keep a chevy a chevy and a poncho a poncho

[heff]

but WHY would it be done? a bbc will eat a pontiac...why beat a dead horse?

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by heff

but WHY would it be done? a bbc will eat a pontiac...why beat a dead horse?

Whoa! Them's fightin' words, Heff!
My Pontiacs whup'd up on a number of BBCs the years that I was mini-rod pulling. 540 c.i. Rodecks, 600 c.i. BBCs, etc.

[Pontiacmuscle]

Id love to see what a built Pontiac would do in a '63 Split Window or a '66 Convertible!
Anybody needs a hand putting one together....Im IN!! I get the first ride if Jack will Drive!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevr...spagenameZWDVW

[455RM]

Yes, it's been done. I bought a wrecked '80 'Vette specifically because it had a 1971 455HO in it.

[Oman]

I knew a guy in Ct who had a 389 in a 57 or 58 Corvette. 3x2 4 speed. Interesting thing.

[David Holmberg]

Someone is Ace Brewers (Ace PPR) family had or has one. I remember Ace talking about it years ago...

[Gary S.]

Pics would be nice...

[JSAauto]

Originally Posted by pontiac jack

Whoa! Them's fightin' words, Heff!
My Pontiacs whup'd up on a number of BBCs the years that I was mini-rod pulling. 540 c.i. Rodecks, 600 c.i. BBCs, etc.

Yep.... thems always been fightin words. And the Ponchos usually loose when you're talking sheer horsepower or E.T. apples for apples.

Take a look at this recent field of NHRA Super Stocker time slips Lynn posted and then tell me where the Poncho's are?

http://216.178.81.108/forums/showthread.php?t=470165

If you were beating guys with Rodeck motors... then I'd say they lost because they didn't know what they were doing or for other reasons (traction, lame driver, etc).

Enter a Poncho in NHRA Stock or Super Stock and get back to me when you lay down your e.t.'s

If you want something that is really unusual... put a Turbo Buick V-6 in it. You can make every bit of Torque the BB chevy or Poncho would make. That would really flip people out.

[Mr Dave]

There's a few Turbo Buick V6 Corvettes out there already.

[Jack Gifford]

Hm... should I apologize for "knowing what I was doing" with Pontiac power?
I guess it's good to have at least a few forum members who are not true Pontiac fans- keeps us on our toes!

[JSAauto]

Jack....
No apologies needed. It's obvious you know what you're doing with Poncho power. Look at how fast your car runs.

My only point was in the apples to apples comparison. The level (well... not so level with stock replacement heads) playing field of NHRA is where the B.S. stops and the real competition starts.

If you call racing & building Pontiacs for over 20 years not being a true pontiac fan, oh well then. But I have alot of respect for any maker that can make big gains in power or technology regardless of the make. Maybe that's why I was incorporating things like heart shaped combustion chambers, mirror image pistons, reverse flow cooling systems, drilling head decks for more even coolant flow around the combustion chambers, moving ports, moving valve trains, increasing plenum area's on the old Doug Nash intakes, using "chevy" technology (big tabu according to guys like McCarthy way back when) like turning down mains to fit 455 cranks in 400 blocks (bearing speed), lightening crank counterweights, etc, etc, 5-15 years ago? And what would you call someone that purposely went to the NHRA drags to see ol Pete McCarthy and John Angeles try (and did) win the 1982 Super Stock championship? Rooting for them all the way amongst all the Hemis and BB Chevies?

Nah... I'm not a "true" Pontiac fan

That was a great day for true Pontiac racers across the country.

We're you there?? And even if you weren't... I wouldn't question your Pontiac devotion.

[gearbanger]

There were two apples to apples comparisons here recently where Mighty T/A kicked every one of the Chevies arses but one, coming in second in the Pump gas Drags.

The other was John Kasse's Pontiac that put up the highest scores among all competitors, mostly chevies.

That is apples to apples. The reason you don't see the pontiacs in the superstockers is because those classes force you to use stock parts which are in fact inferior to the factory chevy stuff that had many more years of technology in them and not held back by GM corporate @ssholes. But it is a different world now Chevy boy. You better watch your back now, you never know when a big inch Poncho breathing through some Highports or Tigers is going to sneak up and eat your lunch. It will happen, you won't like it, but there is nothing you can do about it.

[JSAauto]

Gearbanger....

It's all good. Don't be hatin just because of the "corporate" decisions that kept GM alive. But to say that Pontiac had less years in the development of their engines is simply not true. Take a look at this.

http://www.welovepontiacs.com/history.html

I have several old Hot rod magazines that had on the cover many experimental engines being developed by Pontiac as well as Chevy and Ford. back then.... overhead cams, multiple valves, and other ideas that both Chevy and Pontiac were proposing just weren't financially feasable for them to produce in numbers. And is why the BB & SB Chevy won out. It's all about profits in the end. Maybe if Pontiac had concentrated on a simple canted 2 valve BB like Chevy did, they might have been still around. But even today... with the LSx's, GM shows how sometimes simplicity is the best way. But remember.... it's all metal and metal has no brains. An engine doesn't know what kind of label it has on it.

Yeah.... I saw the shoot out with Kaase. No disrespect to Pontiac engines....... but..... If I remember correctly, Kaase is a Ford guy. How do you feel that a Ford guy made a Poncho make power? Will you start waving a Ford flag too?

I've e-mailed with Mighty T/A a while back when me and Pdude were having pump gas engine disputes. He's a very smart guy. He too incorporates technology that was developed by Chevrolets LT-1 in his Pontiac. So should we say he "stole" ideas that were originally Chevies?? It doesn't matter. But I know he's smart enough to know that his Pontiac is no where near rule adhereing/competitve enough to do battle with the likes of NHRA stock or super stock. He'd have to start all over again with his combination. But that's not to say the technologies that he incorporated weren't ingenious.

This is an old time pissing argument on any board regardless if it's a Ford, Mopar, or GM board. Mine is better because ............. (add your own reason)

I prefer to look at engine builders/people like Kaase, Duttweiler, Wilson, Bill Mitchell, Reher-morrison, Fisher, Richard Childress, Roush, Ed Donovan, Glidden, Bill Jenkins, etc.... that take a "clean sheet" approach to building race engines. They have no problem with taking technology developed by others and using it in their development. Which... by the way.... all the new Poncho parts you're talking about coming down the pike?? All carry engineering developments made by other companies.

So yeah!! I'm excited that new parts are becoming available for Ponchos as is for everything else. But to think that a traditional bore spacing Pontiac will ever be competitive in lets say, NHRA Pro-Stock, is dreaming. And until the "purists" accept the fact that the bore spacing is your limiting factor, you will never be competitive with the likes of NHRA Pro-Stock. So in essence, I guess I would say that Warren or Curt Johnson will never worry about a "traditional" Poncho ever showing up at the starting line of an NHRA Pro-Stock event.

[7T2]

WELL SAID gearbanger...

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by JSAauto

... Look at how fast your car runs...

Say what??

[WDCreech]

I first read this thread this morning and the posts by JSAauto have been eating on me. So I have to tell you a story about a road race that I had with a friend in his "67 400hp, 427, 4speed Corvette. I had a '63 LeMans with a dual quad, hydraulic cammed, .040 over 389 and a 3.23 Speacial Vista Cruiser rear. He left in front of me and I stayed on his tail until we got to a half mile straight. Came out of a hard left hand curve, nailed it and before we got to the end of the straightaway, I pulled in front of him. When we got to the bar that we were racing to, I told Kris to keep it under his hat because I didn't want everyone to know how quick my car ran as I was street racing for money, some weekends. A couple years later I beat the first 450hp, 454 Chevelle that came to Anchorage. So you can't tell me that a Pontiac will be beat, just because it's racing a Chevy. Also My son just told me that there is a guy on Pinks, that has an Indian Adventures in a vette, that is kicking butt. As my dad used to say, "Put that in your pipe, and smoke it"

[Mo]

Cool story Bill.

A Pontiac in a Vette = shredded IRS. That is why they used those weak a$$ snail blocks to reduce warranty claims. I recall an article about 427 Cobra vs BB Corvette(1969?) and the vette grenaded the IRS. Whoops!


John Langer Wins!!!!