[duabirra]

I know this has been addressed and isn't tech. After reading the post re the convertible III, I have to ask this question. In this crazy market, what is a #2, orbit orange, 4 speed, full numbers matching, RA IV, all documentation (including dealer paper), worth? I have watched the values of Hemis soar. Could a RA IV (or III) do the same? Could these cars hit 100K, 200K, a million? For Poncho fans, they are the best. But, can the market last much longer? I am very curious and would love people's thoughts. Any good resources that could provide information? A restorer told me yesterday that an article indicated that prices won't peak for another 2 years! Could that really happen?

It's an old subject and I apologize. But I'd love people's opinions.

Thanks,

[duabirra]

I know this has been addressed and isn't tech. After reading the post re the convertible III, I have to ask this question. In this crazy market, what is a #2, orbit orange, 4 speed, full numbers matching, RA IV, all documentation (including dealer paper), worth? I have watched the values of Hemis soar. Could a RA IV (or III) do the same? Could these cars hit 100K, 200K, a million? For Poncho fans, they are the best. But, can the market last much longer? I am very curious and would love people's thoughts. Any good resources that could provide information? A restorer told me yesterday that an article indicated that prices won't peak for another 2 years! Could that really happen?

It's an old subject and I apologize. But I'd love people's opinions.

Thanks,

[kaysersuzuki]

well there is a site called classicgtos.com i think that just sold a judge convert for 800,000.00 if that tells you anything

[kaysersuzuki]

sounds unrealistic but hey if you wanna sell go for it you will regret it later

[weranc55]

This market will not continue the way it has been going. How many people can spend 100k on a muscle car? One of the reason why the cars have gone up is because people have pulled there money out of the market and with the low rates and home values going up. Most people will go back into the market and it will leave just the people who truelly love these cars. Another reason is the people who grew up with these cars when they were just getting there lisence finally have the money to buy them. Do you remember the late 80's and the prices of the 67 vettes and the ferraris? Look at the cars from the 80 that were real hot then. Look what a Gnx will bring and what they paid for them then, same as the turbo ta's not a great investment. I have a 83 ferrari 512bbi that I purchased for 55k three years ago. In the late 80's they were going for up to 200k. I bought the car because it was the hottest car when I was about to get my lisence and always dreamed of owning one. Buy or keep a car because you love it and if you can make money even better. BTW I'm looking for a 69 ra 4 judge but the ferrari wiped me out a few years ago. The guy at customclassic is asking usually twice a much as most other sellers for his cars but he finds the buyers somewhere. I have a feeling that the guys who really love these cars are going to be getting these cars back at some good deals in the future. My guess 5 to 10 years from now.

[taximan]

Disregard anything you see on customclassicgto.com

Tony's prices and sale prices are in dream world. He has hit his head very hard !!

Real RAIV's(especially converts), will continue to go up, and will stay high.

GTO's in general are still a good buy. I know after havig 6 classsc vettes, the investors runed that market. Especially for mid year Vettes. A very ordinary, fair condition 67' BB Vette is in on 6 figures. Restored, NCRS top flight 67 BB's are well into 6 figures.

PS, Run, don't walk from Custom classic GTO's

[taximan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by taximan:
Disregard anything you see on customclassicgto.com

Tony's prices and sale prices are in dream world. He has hit his head very hard !!

Real RAIV's(especially converts), will continue to go up, and will stay high.

GTO's in general are still a good buy. I know after havig 6 classsc vettes, the investors ruined that market. Especially for mid year Vettes. A very ordinary, fair condition 67' BB Vette is in on 6 figures. Restored, NCRS top flight 67 BB's are well into 6 figures.

PS, Run, don't walk from Custom classic GTO's <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[PonchoV8]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by weranc55:
This market will not continue the way it has been going. How many people can spend 100k on a muscle car? One of the reason why the cars have gone up is because people have pulled there money out of the market and with the low rates and home values going up. Most people will go back into the market and it will leave just the people who truelly love these cars. Another reason is the people who grew up with these cars when they were just getting there lisence finally have the money to buy them. Do you remember the late 80's and the prices of the 67 vettes and the ferraris? Look at the cars from the 80 that were real hot then. Look what a Gnx will bring and what they paid for them then, same as the turbo ta's not a great investment. I have a 83 ferrari 512bbi that I purchased for 55k three years ago. In the late 80's they were going for up to 200k. I bought the car because it was the hottest car when I was about to get my lisence and always dreamed of owning one. Buy or keep a car because you love it and if you can make money even better. BTW I'm looking for a 69 ra 4 judge but the ferrari wiped me out a few years ago. The guy at customclassic is asking usually twice a much as most other sellers for his cars but he finds the buyers somewhere. I have a feeling that the guys who really love these cars are going to be getting these cars back at some good deals in the future. My guess 5 to 10 years from now. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

After seeing some of the prices, I think they will shrink back, but never again will they be as affordable as before where you could buy a good car every other year. Those $3-700K cars will shrink. The $20-50,000 I don't think they will.

In 81, I was a Junior in HS and looking for a car. I had $800 and bought a 70 R/T Challenger with 340/auto and custom paint for about $600. I couldn't afford what I wanted--a mid year Vette. They were all $4500-6500 for the reasonably nice ones. At the same time frame in Sterling Heights MI, I saw an all original Vette with original knockoffs and as I remember a BB tripower priced at $11500 at a gas station. I thought that was a rediculous price. I may be mistaken, but I remember the guy telling me how special the car was because it had blah this and blah that. He must've seen the shock in my eyes.

[weranc55]

Doug I think you are also right. The 20 to 50k cars probable will not take a hit. The 100 to 700 will. Its the investors that own them or people with a lot of money These cars will not be as inexpensive as in the past but look at all the ra4 and other high end cars and you will see that its a few people own a lot of cars. Imagine someone with 10 ra4 cars needing to unload all of them at once. In this hot market they may do ok but if the market was not they would be hard to sell for good money. I know one guy who has over 20 cars and he has over five ra4 cars. Actually Custom Classic Gto sold one 69 judge ra4 car for about 50k to 55k earlier this year. That was probable the best deal to come out of that shop.

[duabirra]

I agree with all who wrote about buying a car because you love it, to keep it, polish it, and most importantly DRIVE IT! But, I still face the obvious thought...when does it no longer make sense to keep a car? I could be just as happy in a RA III as in a RA IV. I think sometimes that the RAIV appeals to someones vanity as a collector as much as a true Poncho fan. No, this is not always the case but it does seem possible. I have a RA IV and a RA III and both are a pleasure. Truthfully, the RAIII is just as fast and less temperamental in cool whether. Regardless, there are those who love the rarity of a RAIV and I can certainly appreciate that as well. To each his own.

I guess I will answer my own question. I think that men (sorry, gender does seem relevant here) who were teens in the 1960's and 1970's will enjoy reliving their youth until the very end. Baby boomers have worked very hard to achieve what they have. For the next 20 years, I think they will play and spend. Vacation houses, new cars like the Viper and Corvette, Harley Davidsons and muscle cars. They deserve to enjoy their lives however they choose. To most, a 1969 GTO (or whatever) is just fine. But to some (wealthy, successful), the rarity of the car adds to the enjoyment. Throw in an excited son or daughter and grandchild, and the interest becomes a family obsession. Good for them.

I think this boom is different. The world has changed so much since the 80's and 90's. There is alot of hatred and violence today. Most people would love to be back in a better, simpler time and they have only a few shots left at getting to that point in their minds and in their private garages. Sure, the 1970's were tough and the 80's excessive (probably not compared to today). The 90's saw unique changes. But, the Boomers were 20 years younger then and had seemingly many chances to re-live their youth. Today, retirement and death is right around the corner.

I know the most perfect times in my life were getting married, the birth of my son and daughter, my first gun dog and a few other events. I could not place a price tag on any of those events. I suppose that if someone asked me to pay, say $100,000.00, to "feel" the way I did when my little girl was born anytime I wanted to, I'd sell my cars and write the check. I don't think, after all the pain and work, anyone can place a value on the fountain of youth that muscle cars truly are. Remember the movie "Cocoon"? "We are going to a place where we won't die and we'll never grow old." That's muscle cars. And, I think that passion will be passed to the children like a beloved and valuable painting or piano. Cars have indeed become art. Not so in the 1980's.

I think car prices will continue to escalate. Harley will continue to sell alot of bikes. Corvettes will be common. This will happen for at least several more years. Then, I think there will be a readjustment on values but not an earth shattering one. I do think the more common cars (non RA, auto's perhaps, bad color cars) that have been over restored will take a beating. But the Judges will live on as pop-art, pop-culture, icons of the auto world when Delorean had good ideas and Wangers had vision.

I don't think I will sell any car for a few years and if I miss the bubble, so be it. I will have great memories with my wife and kids in the back of a RA IV and throwing smoke at stop lights.

[70ram4]

Just a side note I'm having diffuculty selling a 70 GTO ram 4 , 4speed for $45,500

[ramair2]

Duabirra,
Are you selling a RA IV Judge similar to the one you described? If so email me with more details. forestville@bellsouth.net

[weranc55]

70 ra4 its tuff because thats a lot of money to spend and there are not that many people out there with it. I think I saw your car on ebay right. If it was a 69 judge ra4 I would be very interested. Good luck

[BLKBRD]

Just though that I'd add my 2 cents on Custom Classic GTO. I have to agree with TAXIMAN. The prices listed on this site have, for the most part, no basis in reality. Don't believe the listed selling price, as it is no more than an attempt to fool future purchasers into believing that these cars are actually selling for that kind of money. Regarding the '69 RA IV Judge that WERANC55 mentioned selling out of Custom Classic GTO earlier this year for $50K to $55k, I believe that this is the same car that I looked at just over one year ago. The car was originally listed for nearly $70K and was identified as a lite restoration and in #2 condition. The owner of Custom Classic said that he'd let it go for $49K but that if I wanted it I'd have to move fast because some mushroom farmer was going to buy it by the end of that week. I promptly declined, after which he eventually dropped the price to an agreed to $45K. I flew several thousand miles to look at the supposed #2 car and spent approximately 10 minutes looking it over before walking away. I can verify that the engine did match the VIN of the car and was very presentable, but that was it. The "highly detailed" engine compartment had not been cleaned prior to painting. The paint was applied over rust and dirt, as was the case with the frame and suspension. It looked terrible. The paint on the body appeared as though it had been applied in one very heavy coat. There was orange peel and runs all over the car. There was plastic filler on each quarter panel from top to bottom, as well as the front fenders and most likely the doors. The car was described to me as "rust and Bondo free" prior to price negotiation and I specifically asked this question on three seperate ocassions. There was also some very shoddy patch work on the floors. Essentially, a hole in the floor was "repaired" by riveting a piece of sheet metal over the hole from the outside of the car and then slapping a heavy coat of sealant over the seams prior to a heavy coat of paint. The day after I declined the purchase, I received a scathing e-mail from the owner stating that I know nothing about cars, that I wasted his time, and that these cars left the factory with Bondo. There are several other stories that I can tell you about that place, but the bottom line is that if you intend to do business with them, DO YOUR HOMEWORK! I can say that that they do appear to have a nack for locating very rare numbers matching vehicles.

[weranc55]

Even with the problems that car it was one of his better deals of the year if there is such a thing. I dont plan on buying a car from him but would have probable also looked at that car. Sorry that car did not work for you. Now theres two of us looking for a ra4 69 judge.

[BLKBRD]

I did actually locate a '69 RA IV Judge just a couple of months after I looked at the one that Custom Classic had for sale. It is a matching numbers car in need of a restoration, but the engine, tranny, and rearend had just been rebuilt, and it only cost me $15K. The $30K that I saved over the Custom Classic Judge will go very far.

[PonchoV8]

There was one advertised here for 15K with an SR block needing a full restore that sold earlier this year. Was that the one you bought?

[weranc55]

BLKBRD you got a deal. Let me know if you get tired of it and want to sell. Good things come to those who wait and I hope I will find one one of these days. Good Luck

[ramair2]

restored ra 4 1969-70 Judge. maching numbers. 4speed. in todays market id say we are at 6 figures.

[pmdclassics]

Rare muscle car prices are at an all time high. A local North Dakotan recently paid $2 million for a rare Mopar convert. He drives it to work often. The economy must be on the rebound!! Hey if I had endless $$ I would pay six figures for the right Pontiac no problem.