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Mike Davis · 04-22-2005, 07:31 PM

Got the engine back in the car and fired it up. Ignition system consisted of a Accel Magnetic P/U distributor, MSD 6T box, MSD rev limiter, MSD Dial type retard, Blaster 2 coil, Taylor Pro 409 10.5mm wires, BOP composite distributor gear. Problem I am having is with the timing set/locked out at 36 degrees when you rev it up to about 3000 rpm it retards back to 21 degrees. I purchased a NEW MSD billet distributor yesterday- locked it out and installed it- same problem. Disconnected the Retard box, Rev Limiter, and tach- same problem. Checked end play on the distributor- it checked good at .009. Checked the ground-good. When I reassembled the engine the Billet Rollmaster chain was tight. Camshaft endplay is .0068 using Simms set-up with Torrington Bearings. Balancer is a Romac SFI and it is degreed dead on. Also tried 2 timing lights. Anyone have any ideas on this or seen this before?

Mike Davis · 04-22-2005, 07:31 PM

Got the engine back in the car and fired it up. Ignition system consisted of a Accel Magnetic P/U distributor, MSD 6T box, MSD rev limiter, MSD Dial type retard, Blaster 2 coil, Taylor Pro 409 10.5mm wires, BOP composite distributor gear. Problem I am having is with the timing set/locked out at 36 degrees when you rev it up to about 3000 rpm it retards back to 21 degrees. I purchased a NEW MSD billet distributor yesterday- locked it out and installed it- same problem. Disconnected the Retard box, Rev Limiter, and tach- same problem. Checked end play on the distributor- it checked good at .009. Checked the ground-good. When I reassembled the engine the Billet Rollmaster chain was tight. Camshaft endplay is .0068 using Simms set-up with Torrington Bearings. Balancer is a Romac SFI and it is degreed dead on. Also tried 2 timing lights. Anyone have any ideas on this or seen this before?

Ray Cox · 04-22-2005, 07:40 PM

Mike retards cannot be just disconnected, they need a zero chip or grounded on some, msd has the directions for each unit on the site, the retards are probably activating

Jeff V · 04-22-2005, 07:45 PM

Have you always run the 6T MSD box?

Mike Davis · 04-22-2005, 08:31 PM

Ray- the retard on mine is done manually with a dial on the dash it is not a start or high gear retard. - I have COMPLETELY disconnected it form the MSD box. Jeff- yes same box I have been running. Only thing hooked up now is the distributor, 6T and coil. After it retards it and you let it back down below 3500-3000rpm it returns to 36 degrees.

Bill Meyer · 04-22-2005, 08:38 PM

Mike, you've changed the normal "suspects", the only clue I get, is that the MSD boxes quit doing multiple sparks at about 3000 RPM. Above 3000, it only sparks once. When it hits that point, it must be missing a beat, thus retarding by the 2 degrees. It would be nice to swap out that MSD box. - Bill -

Mike Davis · 04-22-2005, 08:46 PM

Bill, I thought the box may be bad but according to MSD they said it can't retard the timing. It must since it is basically a Ign module. Just can't see why it is losing 15 degrees.

BVR421 · 04-22-2005, 10:44 PM

At Pontiac Heaven I discovered mine was doing the exact same thing-. 34 down to about 20. My setup was a bone stock hei that I installed a strap accross the pins that used to hold the springs in an attempt to "lock" the timing. Obviously it didnt work. I havent taken it apart yet but I guess somehow the centrifical started working backwards due to the way I (thought) I had locked it in place.
Again this was nothing more than a stock spare hei with no msd or any of that. A points dist is going in but as a crutch that day I advanced (at idle) to about 50. made it turn over too hard but I picked up 3 tenths

Ray Cox · 04-23-2005, 05:56 AM

mike are the taylors solid core wires?

Junkyard Dog · 04-23-2005, 08:26 AM

Well, according to Ray, disconnecting the box doesn't work. It will always keep retarding, even after throwing the box in the trash or cutting it up with a hacksaw!

Since you swapped out the distributor, I would say that rules out that (unless, of course the old distributor is still causing the problem, too, even though it is out of the car).

Can it be something to do with your Simms set-up with Torrington bearings? That seems to be the only thing that isn't being run by everyone else that could be causing some strange problem . . .

Retarding 15 degrees is a lot. Even if the chain wasn't tight it shouldn't cause that much of a difference over the rpm range.

Hot Rod · 04-23-2005, 05:10 PM

Mike,
Check you ignition wires! I had the same problem with my 7al-2 box installed a set of Taylor wires! The problem went away... Also check the wires coming out of th box to make sure that none of the insulation has been exposed.....

Rodney

BVR421 · 04-23-2005, 06:47 PM

spark plug wires that can cause ignition retard? did I get that right?

Cliff R · 04-24-2005, 04:50 AM

Mike, I haven't seen that much timing retard simply by free revving the engine. However, I did start following the timing on the engines we've dyno'd and some of them retard the timing considerably under full load at high rpm's. My own 455 didn't retard the timing at all, but we've had a few retard the timing 3-4 degrees, some only 1-2 degrees.

Just curious as to what you may have changed in the "recipe" to cause the troubles. Have you always used the BOP distributor gear? I wouldn't think it could cause the troubles but you might install a bronze gear and double check it anyhow? BTW, how much endplay is in the gear?.....Cliff

Mike Davis · 04-24-2005, 06:05 AM

Cliff- have never run the BOP gear. Always ran a cast gear. The movement is very minimal in the gear /cam engagement. The distributor has .009 endplay. Last night I tried marking the lower pully to see if possibly the outer ring of the balancer was moving but it checked good. The plug wires are the Taylor 409 Pro set. Same one I have been running for 5 years. At a total loss on this. Will swap the box today to see if it makes a difference. Only 5 days till the Atl NSCA race so I have to get it fixed asap.

Junkyard Dog · 04-25-2005, 10:50 AM

Get it fixed? If your wires are 5 years old . . . but I don't see how wires could cause a 15 degree retard anyway. Since you had the same problem with both distributors, are you sure you are locking the timing correctly?

Mike Davis · 04-25-2005, 10:58 AM

Positive I've got it locked out properly. The Accel and the MSD lock out completely different. 5 years shouldn't make a difference on a $129.00 set of wires. MSD can't even tell me what is wrong- they don't seem real knowledgeable on the phone.

Bruce Maichle · 04-25-2005, 11:31 AM

Mike call me 302 377 9479

Mike Davis · 04-26-2005, 10:38 AM

This might be a long shot but can a distributor gear flex that much?? I am out of ideas. The only thing I have not changed is the box.

Region Warrior · 04-26-2005, 12:23 PM

Maybe, didnt someone else post about worn gears? Think it was on bronze though. Iinitial timing would be off also. Do you use a crank trigger pickup? Swap a plain HEI distributor for elimination process. Inspect gears at that time. Bad wire in main module harness?

Wade Congdon · 04-27-2005, 06:13 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mike Davis:
I am out of ideas. The only thing I have not changed is the box. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mike I think you just answered your own question.

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