[RTFM]

Hi all,
Sorry to ask a newbie question, but I'd like to have a information how to recognize a real -69 Judge from the fake ones ?

Situation is following: I might have a opportunity to buy a -69 car that is claimed to be a real thing. It is "not completed project" that has been disassembled about 10 years ago and stored properly but nothing has happened since those days. Car should be quite complete and most #match according owner.

I'm quite experienced muscle car restorer with Chevrolet, but not done anything with Pontiacs so for this question I'd like to have Your advices.
Few things that came in my mind are:
-can I trust cowl tag or VIN,are they defining Judges from other models?
-What engine codes I should find and where ?
-What other options or "hidden secrects" I should try to find from the car ?

As I said, please help newbie and don't let him pay big money from a fake

Thanks in advance.

[The Boss]

Start by getting the vin & sending it here - http://www.phs-online.com/order.asp

Once you get that (you could have it this afternoon if you sent it in this morning) you can get most of the paint/engine/transmission etc. codes here - http://www.gtoheaven.com/gtostats/69gto.html

Keep us posted on what you find out & if you have any other questions - welcome to the board.

[69 RA GTO]

The only real way to know for sure is to run the vin as BOSS stated. Keep us posted as we like to hear about new projects. Good luck with your purchase.

[Todd Kozak]

compare use of english language from this post originator to that of typical scammer ad on ebay. add 2 plus 2

[taximan]

As The Boss said above, the only sure fire way is to get the PHS docs.

There are some things like checking the trunk reinforcing rods that support the extra weight of the spoiler, and things like that. But these all can be faked.

[Bet Winner]

Yeah, PHS as everyone said, but there are some little tip offs. It could not have a build date before Jan 1969. Are the holes in the trunk for the spoiler round? If built in Jan or Feb 1969, it is probably carosel red (code #72), but there may be some nonorange cars in Feb. Does it have a Ram Air engine and a ram air system? (An original Ram Air car is valuable also.) If built later, you will probably see the Judge glove box emblem.

If the block is original, check the two letter code, vehicle ID# on it to the car and the cast date of the block.

But a Judge can be faked, especially if the car is an original Ram Air car.

Let us know. Good luck

[dr-doug]

Don't post to this again, anyone, this has got to be a scam guy. They are getting very clever....,.DW

[Uncle Judge]

Originally Posted by RTFM

Hi all,
Sorry to ask a newbie question, but I'd like to have a information how to recognize a real -69 Judge from the fake ones ?

Situation is following: I might have a opportunity to buy a -69 car that is claimed to be a real thing. It is "not completed project" that has been disassembled about 10 years ago and stored properly but nothing has happened since those days. Car should be quite complete and most #match according owner.

I'm quite experienced muscle car restorer with Chevrolet, but not done anything with Pontiacs so for this question I'd like to have Your advices.
Few things that came in my mind are:
-can I trust cowl tag or VIN,are they defining Judges from other models?
-What engine codes I should find and where ?
-What other options or "hidden secrects" I should try to find from the car ?

As I said, please help newbie and don't let him pay big money from a fake

Thanks in advance.

WOW! 2+2= Foreign scammer! But since you are newbie we wills be happies to help. First you must be sures that you can types in Englishes. Then make sures that the VINs # Start with 23739. Honestly, these guys do not give up!

[RTFM]

Thank You Gentlemen!

I'm very happy that You have very strict "internal policy" in this message board against faked cars. I highly appreciate this attitude, becouse good for every of us that has some real muscle car. This Judge resides in Europe and I'm I international user, so please excuse some writing errors in my first message; English is not my primary language.

As mentioned, car is totally disassembled for frame-off resto but has been stopped by current owner during several years. Therefore I can not surely say what are the option of the car or what is actually left about it. It just needs to go in place and check all parts one by one. I called yesterday to him and our negotiations continues. Hopefully I'll see the car in next weeks how does it look like now. Pictures should be available in next days.
Once I get VIN information, I'll contact to PHS.

I'll keep You posted once I have more information about it.

[Ram4king]

BLA,BLA,BLA,WHAAAAAAAAT???????? EUROPE!!!!!! MY JUDGE IS FROM AFRICA! THOUGHT ALL THE ONES IN EUROPE WERE SOLD!!!

[allmycarsrjunk]

Originally Posted by Ram4king

BLA,BLA,BLA,WHAAAAAAAAT???????? EUROPE!!!!!! MY JUDGE IS FROM AFRICA! THOUGHT ALL THE ONES IN EUROPE WERE SOLD!!!

Ram IV King, your lucky you only had to go to Africa for your car. I had to travel to the third Moon orbiting Uranus.

[SWEETJUDGE]

i think WE have all been through this...... I even had a scare, meaning someone told me my car was a fake so i ripped it apart, ITS REAL.

YOU MUST START with PHS. date code on vin. can the decklid stay up? glove box emblem, very early cars NO glove box emblem. Look for ram air pans, or the holes in the hood for it. Ram Air III or IV car? WS block 69 III 4 spd,heads will be 48s WW IV 4 spd heads will be 722s, Autos YZ ,III XP, IV

ALL THIS COULD BE CLONED so go off PHS........
block will have partial vin close to timing cover pass side, this should match windshield vin, NOT big number on firewall tag. all date codes on engine & heads should be withen 2.5 weeks of each other.

there are stripped models & there are heavy optioned models. 1st 2000 carousel red.

is this the gold one on ebay??????? he stated no phs documentation if so....
GOOD LUCK

[SWEETJUDGE]

there are other clues, but if you are scamming..... i cant help you

[Todd Kozak]

There is a way to get paid by documenting GTO Judges! You can forward a wire transfer to me by Western Union in the amount of $500.00 , be sure to include a VIN number so I can submit it to PHS and get the documentation on your behalf . In return , once I've confirmed documentation, I'll send you a company check for $2500.00 which will cover the cost of the initial transfer and additional $2000.00 for your time and effort. It's really easy and a great way to document your car faster than any other way. email me at niceoldscam@aol.com or call 1-FU2-B4U-KNOW

[allmycarsrjunk]

Originally Posted by Ram4king

BLA,BLA,BLA,WHAAAAAAAAT???????? EUROPE!!!!!! MY JUDGE IS FROM AFRICA! THOUGHT ALL THE ONES IN EUROPE WERE SOLD!!!

King, is it just me or is your I.D. picture different. I can't seem to place my finger in it er.. I mean on it.

[RTFM]

Thanks Sweetjudge!

This is not a eBay car. This one is still in barn as a small pieces....

Carousel Red, RamAir III, automatic tranny, glovebox emblem exists according the pics I have.