[77birdman]

I have a very reputable engine builder give me an estimate building up an old 400 block. He will use a 463 or 468 stroker kit, blue print, KRE heads, roller cam/rockers, port intake, all ARP bolts....etc. The estimate of course includes cleaning up the old block, doing the ultrasound thing, boring out.......and so fort.

The horsepower of this engine will be 350-400 range

The estimate was around $9K (including installation), I thought it was a bit high, I expected around 7,500-8,000.

Am I wrong?

[ANDYA]

I would consider 350-400 hp a stock to mild high performance rebuild. Don't forget base model GTO's with 400's were rated at 350 hp stock. I would say $9000.00 would be a little high. With the parts you described along with the stroker kit for that money I would expect closer to 500 hp.

[b-man]

Originally Posted by 77birdman

I have a very reputable engine builder give me an estimate building up an old 400 block. He will use a 463 or 468 stroker kit, blue print, KRE heads, roller cam/rockers, port intake, all ARP bolts....etc. The estimate of course includes cleaning up the old block, doing the ultrasound thing, boring out.......and so fort.

The horsepower of this engine will be 350-400 range

The estimate was around $9K (including installation), I thought it was a bit high, I expected around 7,500-8,000.

Am I wrong?

An engine like that should cost about 8K to have built, add on a non-stock install and 9K is about right. If you can't do the work yourself, it isn't cheap to have someone who knows their stuff doing your work.

I'd guess the horsepower on an engine with the equipment you listed should put out at least 100 more HP than what you've put down, something's wrong here with those very weak HP numbers.

Seriously, a 400 without the stroker and with unported iron Pontiac heads can easily be built to put out 350-400 HP, and without any kind of roller cam.

[77birdman]

I asked for 350-400 horses maybe he decided I need more
I did not speak to him yet, but he usualy builds 1000+ hp dragsters I would think the HP maybe a lot higher than I thought. WIll talk to him tomorrow.

[b-man]

Originally Posted by 77birdman

I asked for 350-400 horses maybe he decided I need more
I did not speak to him yet, but he usualy builds 1000+ hp dragsters I would think the HP maybe a lot higher than I thought. WIll talk to him tomorrow.

If you decide you only want 350-400 HP, an engine like that can be built for less than 5K.

Don't let your builder over-spend if you really don't want a 500 HP engine. Tell him to build what you want, not what he wants.

[getmygoat]

My build was $3800.

Included 60916 cam and slightly (bowl blend) #12 iron heads. Luckily I could reuse the .30 pistons and no rebore was needed.

9.5 compression.

Horsepower is about 350.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

9K.......... 400hp. I'm in the wrong state. LOL.

[Hillard]

$9000 for 400 hp should come with a car attached. Seriously, an engine build like that should run close to $8000 and get you in the 550-600 hp range (depending on exactly which parts you use...rods, cam, pistons, etc.). Remember, there are a lot of reputable engine builders out there but that doesn't mean they know Pontiacs. I've seen guys that could build a 1200hp Pro Stock motor but couldn't squeeze 400 hp out of a Pontiac to save their life.

[69*Goat]

I paid $5,000 for the 400 that I had stroked to a 462. I had 500+HP, and 525+torque. This included extensive head work, with all new valves. All new innards as well.

Did this machineist have a gun pointed at you when he told you the price?

[DiamondJim]

Pay the freight and send it to a professional(Or just buy it already assembled from them). Make a few phone calls, there are several great Pontiac builders out there. -Jim

[68addict]

Birdman,

I have to help my upstate NYer out. Buy the Jim Hand's Pontiac engine book. Great source of info. Inside it lists engine builder's and their combos. I used it and found Paul Spotts of Spotts Performance, in Eastern PA north of Phillly. For 8500 he quoted me 500 hp roller motor that appeared stock carb to pan. shop around. That kind of money is insane for a stock rebuild with installation, or is he pulling the engine too?

[77birdman]

I have spoken to several Pontiac engine builders around the country, most of them quoted me what they tought should be buil not what I asked for. Some of them made such a ridiculous claim that I would not trust them. I personaly would trust Butler, however they quoted around 7K for the engine, if you add shipping and installation it is not that far from 9K. My guy knows Pontiacs and I think more than half is labor, for example he prefers to assemble the head himself. Labor is labor regardless of what parts you get. He also have a dyno, which helps fine tuning. Far as I know that is also included in the price. My car is ALL ORIGINAL, maybe its not a a Fire Chicken...LOL... but I had it since it was new, maybe its time it had the engine it deserves

68 addict: he is building a roller stroked motor, the price inlcudes installation. I got an old 400 block which he needs to clean up, ultrasound it, bore it ........etc. I just gave him an old 400 complete block I picked up.

Sounds like he is about grand over what you guys think it should be. I have to think about it, since if I have a probleem with the engine and would have to pull it and send it back it cost more. This is a local guy, only about 10 minutes from my house, he was on TV before. He worked with the OCC gang. I also prefer spending my $ locally if possible. Oh boy I have a lot to think about.

[Razorhorn]

Originally Posted by 69*Goat

I paid $5,000 for the 400 that I had stroked to a 462. I had 500+HP, and 525+torque. This included extensive head work, with all new valves. All new innards as well.

Did this machineist have a gun pointed at you when he told you the price?

Goat - who built your engine for you? I'm a little north of you, but I'm looking for a good engine builder for my 400 right now. Of course, the closer the better.

[77birdman]

I just double checked the Butler website and their base price is 8K for the motor. If you would add aluminum heads (they use Edelbrock, I want KRE) and the dyno tune will add an extra $1500 to the price. So all that and including installation these guys seem to be in the ballpark.

More oppinions please, we are talking about a stroked, blueprinted 400+ HP engine, including installation and tuning for 9K.

[Hillard]

If he is a local guy that you trust, that is worth something. My question is why only 400 hp? Did he tell you that? How much hp do you want or expect? You can do 400 hp a whole lot cheaper. The combination you're talking about should easily go 500hp.

[Doug Christie]

Save the $1500.00 dyno tune and just got to the track for 2 years. Lot more fun and you'll learn more about your Poncho.

[77birdman]

When I spoke to him last I was thinking about 400 hp. I did not speak with him since then, just got his proposal in the mail. The car can handle 500 hp no problem it has heavy duty suspension (way past W6) and also custom made, welded tube frame connectors. It handles like a brand new 3 gen with the WS6. Also got a 3.73 gearing, with 500 hp that WILL BE A LOT OF FUN ....................oh yea !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!