#1  
Old 09-21-2007, 04:02 PM
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Default Zone and Dealer Codes..

Hi.
I just got the PHS fax-back papers on my 68 Firebird.
It said:
Charge to : Zone 40 Dealer 220
Ship to : Zone 40 Dealer 001

I looked at http://ultimategto.com/art18.htm , and found out that Zone 40 Dealer 001 was Stacks-Holden in Australia.
Does it mean that my car was ordered and shipped to Australia when it was new?

Thanks
Johan , Sweden

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Old 09-21-2007, 08:37 PM
RA1John RA1John is offline
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Yes

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Old 09-21-2007, 11:52 PM
JimFB400HO JimFB400HO is offline
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Is it a right-hand drive?

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Old 09-22-2007, 06:56 AM
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No ,it`s a left-hand drive.
Maybe its been converted here in Sweden, but everything looks like stock. No signs of any modifications.
Man, my car has done some traveling.. first from US to Australia , then shipped to Sweden where itīs been since 1976.
Thanks for the answers..

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Old 09-22-2007, 09:57 AM
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Default Just noticed this post.

Hi, seeing as I'm here in Australia I'll tell you what I know and what I think.

What I know.
If your car WAS destined for Australia, it would NOT have been made or shipped out here in Right Hand Drive form. It would ONLY have been supplied as a Left Hand Drive car and any conversion work to make it RHD would have been done in Australia. That is a fact!!! Don't let anyone try and convince you otherwise.

What I think
While I fully accept your car may have a dealer code of 40 on the build sheet, I really doubt it would have been shipped over here. Somewhere, somehow, I think you car never made the journey down-under. It may have been re-directed to another dealer in the USA before it was prepped for shipment? Maybe they were short of stock so it was sent elsewhere??

What I REALLY think what happened is:
Those cars were RARE in Australia when brand new. They were super expensive and VERY hard to sell. Buyers were very few and far between. Back in those days, it was illegal to sell a car that was NOT RHD. EVERY LHD car had to be converted before being sold. And converting a car has never been cheap to do. So I would think that simply, you car was ordered by Stack & Co. (they were based in Sydney), but quite possibly if Stacks were finding the cars hard to sell, they most likely asked Pontiac simply to not ship it over here and to find a dealer in America who wanted the car for stock.

Interesting story though. I would still think that your car would be a very rare car having that dealer code.

PS, the law here nowadays is that a car that is over 30 years old can be registered if it is LHD. There are still some brand new American cars being sold here but they are now being made in RHD (Jeeps, Chysler & Dodge mostly), and also Corvettes in extremely limited numbers but those are imported LHD and converted. Incredibly expensive cars.

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Old 09-22-2007, 03:59 PM
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Youīre right Heybuck ,with a second thought about it , my bird was probably never shipped to Australia.
I mean that why should anyone from Sweden buy a RHD converted car in Austraila ,when he could buy a LHD car back home or in the US..
I can post a picture of Car Billing History when I get the real copy from PHS in the mail.

Appreciate all the info.

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Old 02-23-2008, 12:35 PM
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Itīs been along time since I started this tread, almost forgot about it
But hereīs a pic of the PHS
Regards / Johan
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Old 02-23-2008, 10:43 PM
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Im trying to understand why they would export from the USA when they had a plant in Europe that made Firebirds.

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Old 02-24-2008, 04:22 PM
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I donīt have a clue either.. all I heard was that the European factory was in Antwerp , Belgium.
It would had been fun to know where my car was delivered to , since it never came to Austraila, but Iīll guess that there isnīt any way to find it out.

/ Johan

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Old 02-24-2008, 06:39 PM
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destination fee may hold a clue

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Old 02-25-2008, 10:58 AM
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I'm not sure that the list at the ultimate GTO site is 100% correct. I think that Zone 40 was used for all cars that in some form were bought from abroad, not only Australia.

My Firebird was privately imported to Sweden and on my car billing history card it says:
Charge to: Zone 40 Dealer 222
Ship to: Zone 40 Dealer 006. This is Mercer Auto Storage, Bronx, N.Y. according to PHS(even though it says otherwise on the GTO site). From there it was probably put on a boat destined for Sweden.

I can see on your car billing history card that you have option 804 just like me. This is speedometer marked in km/h (or KPH as the actual text says), don't they use mph in Australia?

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Old 02-25-2008, 03:34 PM
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400HO F-BIRD

Well, I also belive that they use Mph speedos in Australia.
Did your car come to Sweden as new in 68?
Mine did not , like I mentioned earlier the year my car came here was 1976.
Date of first registration: 1976-06-29
I just wanted to know if there was some one who would have a clue where my car has been between 68-76.

/ Johan


( Sorry guys for the poor English...still learning )

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  #13  
Old 02-26-2008, 06:05 AM
400HO F-BIRD 400HO F-BIRD is offline
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Yes, my car was imported to Sweden brand new. Invoice date may 5:th 1968 and date of first registration in Sweden is august 20:th 1968.

So the zone codes is for the export to Sweden, not through GM but privately.

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Old 02-26-2008, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 400HO F-BIRD
So the zone codes is for the export to Sweden, not through GM but privately.

If Zone code 40 was for private export to Sweden, my car should have come here in 68 not 76. Right? I donīt belive that it sat in a garage from 68 to 76 unregistred.
I should try to get in contact with the first owner here in Sweden ,
maybe he could fill in the missing bit.

/ Johan

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Old 02-26-2008, 06:35 PM
John V. John V. is offline
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400HO-F-bird has the best sense of what likely happened.

You are being misled by what is posted at Ultimate GTO. A great reference resource, but only as good as the hobbyist input sent to Sean Mattingly.

I suspect that somebody has a '69 up Invoice record that identified a car shipped to Stacks-Holden Australia with the 40-001 Dealer coding and that was how the connection was made.

Likewise, the identification of 40-204 as Mercer Auto Storage may actually be identifying a foreign Dealer while Mercer Auto Storage may be the Zone Storage Lot identified as 40-006 where the car was held prior to Overseas shipment from the Port of NY.

More likely, International Sales to Europe & Australia were handled through a GM entity in a similar manner as cars sold into Canada were handled through GM-Canada.

You will note the general GM-Canada export office is identified as 38-001. I have not researched this but I believe that every car produced in the U.S. and shipped to Canada for sale there, was shipped to GM-Canada. GM-Canada then handled distribution to the individual Canadian Dealers. And 38-001 may identify one of several Zone Storage Lots where the cars were held, either in Canada, or perhaps on the U.S. side before clearing Customs and moving to Canada.

I have identified 4 different Sales Classes.

Look at the Billing History Card, look at the Invoice Identification No.

I'm not familiar with '68 PHS docs, but I believe this is valid. The K identifies the Classification of the Sale.

For domestic Dealers, common classes are Class A which means the Dealer purchasing the car utilized GMAC wholesale financing to purchase it. The car shipped after rolling off the line direct to the Dealer that ordered it. The Dealer had a Line of Credit approved by GMAC and an interest bearing Note was issued to the Dealer obligating him to repay GMAC. PMD was immediately satisfied, paid in full by GMAC. The Dealer may have ordered the car tagged for a specific retail customer, or he may have ordered it for his own stock inventory "floor planning".

Class B refers to "Other Dealer Credit", means the Dealer established a Line of Credit with his local Bank. When the car rolled off the line, it also shipped to the Dealer immediately, but this time PMD made a Draft against the Dealers Bank Line of Credit. Again, PMD got paid immediately. In this case, the Dealer had to repay his Bank.

Class C refers to "Cash". In this case, the Dealer paid cash to acquire the car. I have never seen an Invoice showing a car paid for by Cash, but it was possible for the Dealer to buy the car with cash.

Class J refers to a Zone Stock order. PMD produced lots of cars for Zone Stock Inventory. I'm not sure what a '68 Billing History Card might show if the car was produced for Zone Stock. When cars were built for Zone Stock, they were shipped first to a Zone Storage Lot, where the car would collect dust until a Dealer sought to purchase it. In '69, these Zone Stock purchases can be identified from the Invoice ID No. which used a different format from what is shown on the '68 example. My guess is that '68 Pontiacs purchased by Dealers out of Zone Stock might still reflect a typical Class A or Class B sale. The Class J may have only been a temporary designation to identify the car as shipped to Zone Stock, until it was subsequently sold to a Retail Dealer.

The Billing History in question shows Class K. I have never seen such a Class, but surmise that it identifies the sale as "Export". Consequently, no FDH (factory to dealer holdback I believe) and no Holdback Amount. But Class K almost undoubtedly proving that the car was originally sold as an export sale.

So IMO, this car first shipped from Lordstown where it was built to a Zone Storage Lot identified by 40-001, quite likely a Lot near the Port of NY. Then it was ultimately delivered and charged to a Dealer in Europe Identified by 40-220. That leaves you to discover where exactly was the Dealer that the Car was Charged To under 40-220.

Since the car was not apparently converted to RHD, you can guess that the Dealer was located in a European country that was LHD in '68.

I'm not sure what Government records exist that show the car didn't get to Sweden until '76. But it is more likely the car came from a neighboring country or at least somewhere in Europe as opposed to any great distance away with the possible exception of somebody choosing to bring it with them while being relocated to Sweden. Chances are that would have been foolish since a '67 'bird Coupe in '76 was probably worth about $800 US or less. Would not have been worth the shipping cost.

Bottom line, Zone 40 was most likely an Export or "overseas" zone designation so won't define where outside the Continental U.S. that the car was sent to. Could have been Australia, Europe, even Hawaii shipments came thru Zone 40.

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Old 02-27-2008, 02:35 AM
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Thanks alot for the good explanation, really appreciate it.

/ Johan

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  #17  
Old 02-27-2008, 08:01 AM
400HO F-BIRD 400HO F-BIRD is offline
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I can just add that I too have an invoice number beginning with a "K" on my car billing history card with no F.D.H or holdback amount.

That would be in line with the theory that Zone 40 would be a general export code with the second part of the code defining which dealer made the sale and to what location the car should be shipped from the factory. This is probably in many cases a location in the U.S (as it was for my car) and there will be no way to tell from the car billing history card what the final destination would have been.

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