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Old 02-10-2008, 09:45 AM
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David Jones David Jones is offline
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Default My Doug's Installation.............

My GTO got the money for a set of Doug's headers for Christmas. After a little searching, I found that our host Performance Years had the best pricing on them so I ordered a set. Just like anything I've ordered from PY, they arrived quickly and nicely packaged. It took me a few weeks to find time to begin the installation, but a couple of weeks ago I dove in. First on the hit parade was getting the car high enough in the air. I guess I put mine up about a foot or so and found that to be close to not high enough. More is better in this department. That's a lot of metal to slide up from the bottom and you need height. Next is removing things that are in the way. Unhook the battery. My car is an auto, so the transmission cooler lines came off. The transmission fill tube came off. The oil filter and the block mount for the filter (Doug's supplies a new gasket for that) came off. The dust cover for the torque converter came off. The starter came off ( have a RobbMc ministarter). I pulled the spark plug wires off the plugs and layed them on the intake. I removed both of the Ram Air III exhaust manifolds and let the exhaust pipes hang. After comparing the exits for the back cylinders on both the manifolds and the headers and comparing that to where the pipes bolt up I made a rough cut on the exhaust pipes to get them close to the correct length for the headers. I didn't factor in the reducers that came with the headers, I just wanted to get the pipes just out of the way for the headers install, then I'd cut for correct length. At this point I decided that I'd replace the motor mounts. That is another story.....
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=549728
After finally squaring away the mounts, I did a test fit on the driver side header. I could see interference with the proportioning valve, but I looked clear everywhere else including all transmission linkages. I took the header out and took the proportioning valve off its mount and bent it up against the frame. I did that with my foot and it took care of the clearance issue. Just that simple. Installation of the headers started with the passenger side. I had glued the gaskets to the headers with red silicone as per Wheelspin (Les). That worked great. I spread a small bead of red silicone on the head side also. I covered the area that the headers slid up into with a towel to protect from scratches and worked them into place. I started the front bolt and one of the rear bolts to hold them in place. I found no real issues in installing both headers by myself. A couple of the bolts were a challenge to get to but patience got it done. Actual bolting in of the headers took less than 2 hours. Reinstalling the various bits and pieces removed took more time. The transmission cooler lines required a little tweeking. I attached the transmission end 1st and then the radiator end. The lines touched the headers at the number 8 pipe. I bent the away by hand. The oil mount bolts were a challenge to start and tighten. Working from the top was the best way. Having various depth sockets was a plus here. The Craftsman was right for one of the bolts, a Stanley worked on the others. The PF30 oil filter fit just fine. The transmission fill tube went in fine. Looking at the various brake lines on the driver side I realized that the one going to the passenger side front was to close. It pushed back away from the heat with a long screw driver. The starter wnr in with no issues and all transmission linkages cleared. Nothing there had to be removed or ground down as I had read others had to do. After all that I realized that I was also lucky in where the headers ended and the exhaust pipes started. Right in line!! I went to Auto Zone and got a couple of pieces of pre flared staight pipe and some clamps. Laying under the car with the reducers and the pipes I figured and cut the exhaust to correct length and bolted it all together. Adding 2 quarts of transission fluid to replace what leaked out of the filler tube opening and I put the car back on the ground.
I don't notice a lot louder car. Some say the headers are noisier. They may be a little, but to me it's just a slightly DIFFERENT sound. Not really louder. I'd say my install went well, once I got past the motor mount fun and games.

And no leaks anywhere.

So far.

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frittering and wasting the hours in an off hand way....



1969 GTO, 455ci, 230/236 Pontiac Dude's "Butcher Special" Comp hyd roller cam with Crower HIPPO solid roller lifters, Q-jet, Edelbrock P4B-QJ, Doug's headers, ported 6X-8 (97cc) heads, TKO600, 3.73 geared Eaton Tru-Trac 8.5", hydroboost, rear disc brakes......and my greatest mechanical feat....a new heater core.
  #2  
Old 02-11-2008, 02:21 PM
Chad Chad is offline
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David, I've been keeping track of your header project through the forum. I'm currently having my engine rebuilt. I'll be purchasing a set of Doug's due to your experience and installing them and the engine in my 69' this spring. Thanks for posting all of your progress!

Chad

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Old 02-11-2008, 03:02 PM
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Chad, let me clarify a thing or two.
Starting the oil filter mount bolts was done from the bottom. I could figure no way to tighten them from down there though. Tightening was done from the top.
Something else I did to hold down scratches was to cover the parts of the headers that I thought might contact something with Blue painters tape. I think it worked well and was easy to get back off.
I've driven the car twice and after it was cooled completely back down was able to tighten nearly all the bolts down to some extent. Not quite as much the second time. A basic Craftsman 3/8" open end wrench gets to all the bolts.

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frittering and wasting the hours in an off hand way....



1969 GTO, 455ci, 230/236 Pontiac Dude's "Butcher Special" Comp hyd roller cam with Crower HIPPO solid roller lifters, Q-jet, Edelbrock P4B-QJ, Doug's headers, ported 6X-8 (97cc) heads, TKO600, 3.73 geared Eaton Tru-Trac 8.5", hydroboost, rear disc brakes......and my greatest mechanical feat....a new heater core.
  #4  
Old 02-11-2008, 08:55 PM
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David Holmberg David Holmberg is offline
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Good write up David!

I notice more noise with a larger cam, and almost the same with a smaller, stockish cam.

  #5  
Old 02-11-2008, 09:40 PM
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Holeshot71 Holeshot71 is offline
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David, excellent write up. I have been following your progress as well..
I'm planning on putting some headers on my '71 GTO this spring. I noticed you are
using a PF30 oil filter. Is that filter the same size as a PF24 or do you need to run
that to clear the Headers??

  #6  
Old 02-12-2008, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holeshot71
David, excellent write up. I have been following your progress as well..
I'm planning on putting some headers on my '71 GTO this spring. I noticed you are
using a PF30 oil filter. Is that filter the same size as a PF24 or do you need to run
that to clear the Headers??
Holeshot, I'm not sure how the size compares? I think the PF30 is actually a little bigger than the PF24, I'll bet somebody on here knows and will chime in. I bought 8 or 10 PF30's (It's the original filter #) on eBay a few years ago for about 2 bucks a filter. I couldn't pass it up. There is room to spare between the oil filter and any part of the headers.

My car came with the original log manifolds when I got it. They leaked like crazy. When I removed them I discovered that the back side of the manifolds was worn away by corrosion/leaking. Whatever. I ordered a pair of 2.5" Ram Air III manifolds from R.A.R.E. and painted them. I ran them that way for a while and then had Jet Hot coat them. I had them use "Cast Gray" which is a dull kind of semi flat ceramic coating. Inside and out. That made a huge difference in the underhood temperatures. I couldn't believe it. I did a little experimenting with a 160 degree theromstat right after I got them back on and was amazed at the lack of heat when you popped the hood. It didn't feel right!
I used Torque Tech downpipes coming off of the RAIII manifolds and have always been disappointed with the ground clearance. Or lack of. If I didn't hit my street/gutter/driveway transition just right, one or both pipes would drag slightly. These Doug's headers give me probably 1.5" more ground clearance! In addition I noticed that the lifting of the front of my exhaust system has lowered the rear a little. The exhaust tips hang just slightly lower than they did. These headers/gaskets as they burn in, stink! They are stinking less than they did after the 1st ride, but they stink. Daniel (my 12 year old) says its smells like burn't oatmeal. I need to go on a long ride to burn these things in/off. I have verified that nothing is contacting/real close (....ok, real real real close....) the exhaust anywhere on the car.

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frittering and wasting the hours in an off hand way....



1969 GTO, 455ci, 230/236 Pontiac Dude's "Butcher Special" Comp hyd roller cam with Crower HIPPO solid roller lifters, Q-jet, Edelbrock P4B-QJ, Doug's headers, ported 6X-8 (97cc) heads, TKO600, 3.73 geared Eaton Tru-Trac 8.5", hydroboost, rear disc brakes......and my greatest mechanical feat....a new heater core.
  #7  
Old 02-12-2008, 11:42 AM
BAB BAB is offline
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David,

I've also been watching your header project and past questions about them since my car is similar in engine combinations and I have always debated the same transition as well. I very curious it you get a performance gain so please post once you know! Thanks

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Old 02-12-2008, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAB
David,

I've also been watching your header project and past questions about them since my car is similar in engine combinations and I have always debated the same transition as well. I very curious it you get a performance gain so please post once you know! Thanks
I'm sure I knocked 1/2 second off of my mile marker 269 to the red mail box time! I've only been to the strip twice, ever. The best time of the 1st trip was 13.64 @ 101 (Crane H272 hyd cam) and the best time of the second trip was 13.50 @ 101.5 (Comp Hyd Roller). The second trips times would have been substantially better had the carb not run out of fuel pulling through second gear. I think I've cured that with going back to my Carter mechanical from the stock (short body) fuel pump. I believe this is an upper 12 sec car given traction and fuel. And the engine never sees 5300 rpm. I love my Comp Hyd Roller cam............
I hope to get in a test-n-tune @ the 1/4 mile in Steele when the weather looks good enough for an 80 mile drive.

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frittering and wasting the hours in an off hand way....



1969 GTO, 455ci, 230/236 Pontiac Dude's "Butcher Special" Comp hyd roller cam with Crower HIPPO solid roller lifters, Q-jet, Edelbrock P4B-QJ, Doug's headers, ported 6X-8 (97cc) heads, TKO600, 3.73 geared Eaton Tru-Trac 8.5", hydroboost, rear disc brakes......and my greatest mechanical feat....a new heater core.
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Old 02-12-2008, 12:45 PM
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Rugratman Rugratman is offline
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I have an old open end wrench that I cut in two, to make it smaller/shorter, it works wonders for those inner bolts that are a b*tch to get too.

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Old 02-12-2008, 01:08 PM
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Any chance you could take some pics??

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Old 02-12-2008, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holeshot71
Any chance you could take some pics??
Who/what? The wrench Rugratman mentioned?
My little Craftsman 3/8-7/16 combo wrench fits nicely on every bolt. I have to guide it onto some of the bolts with my fingers as my eyes (can't see 3 or 4 of the bolts...), but that's proved easy to do.

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frittering and wasting the hours in an off hand way....



1969 GTO, 455ci, 230/236 Pontiac Dude's "Butcher Special" Comp hyd roller cam with Crower HIPPO solid roller lifters, Q-jet, Edelbrock P4B-QJ, Doug's headers, ported 6X-8 (97cc) heads, TKO600, 3.73 geared Eaton Tru-Trac 8.5", hydroboost, rear disc brakes......and my greatest mechanical feat....a new heater core.
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Old 02-12-2008, 01:37 PM
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LOL!! I was hoping for some pics of the headers.....

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Old 02-12-2008, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holeshot71
LOL!! I was hoping for some pics of the headers.....
Hey, you never know. Hard to beat a few good wrench pictures.

Or is that wench? I get confused.

If I can find our camera (my 14 year old usually has it hidden somewhere) I'll put some pictures up.

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frittering and wasting the hours in an off hand way....



1969 GTO, 455ci, 230/236 Pontiac Dude's "Butcher Special" Comp hyd roller cam with Crower HIPPO solid roller lifters, Q-jet, Edelbrock P4B-QJ, Doug's headers, ported 6X-8 (97cc) heads, TKO600, 3.73 geared Eaton Tru-Trac 8.5", hydroboost, rear disc brakes......and my greatest mechanical feat....a new heater core.
  #14  
Old 02-12-2008, 08:01 PM
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5 header pictures. The wench pictures might be more entertaining.
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frittering and wasting the hours in an off hand way....



1969 GTO, 455ci, 230/236 Pontiac Dude's "Butcher Special" Comp hyd roller cam with Crower HIPPO solid roller lifters, Q-jet, Edelbrock P4B-QJ, Doug's headers, ported 6X-8 (97cc) heads, TKO600, 3.73 geared Eaton Tru-Trac 8.5", hydroboost, rear disc brakes......and my greatest mechanical feat....a new heater core.

Last edited by David Jones; 02-23-2010 at 10:33 AM.
  #15  
Old 02-12-2008, 08:09 PM
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3 more........The last couple are the RAIII manifolds I took off. Not bad for a few years and somewhere around 6-8 thousand miles. Most of what you see is just dirt from my hands when I took them off.
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frittering and wasting the hours in an off hand way....



1969 GTO, 455ci, 230/236 Pontiac Dude's "Butcher Special" Comp hyd roller cam with Crower HIPPO solid roller lifters, Q-jet, Edelbrock P4B-QJ, Doug's headers, ported 6X-8 (97cc) heads, TKO600, 3.73 geared Eaton Tru-Trac 8.5", hydroboost, rear disc brakes......and my greatest mechanical feat....a new heater core.

Last edited by David Jones; 02-23-2010 at 10:32 AM.
  #16  
Old 02-12-2008, 08:11 PM
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I'm not sure if everybody's computers are like this or not but I get a + on my cursor when I view the above pictures. Click the mouse and the pictures grow and get sharper. Live and learn........

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frittering and wasting the hours in an off hand way....



1969 GTO, 455ci, 230/236 Pontiac Dude's "Butcher Special" Comp hyd roller cam with Crower HIPPO solid roller lifters, Q-jet, Edelbrock P4B-QJ, Doug's headers, ported 6X-8 (97cc) heads, TKO600, 3.73 geared Eaton Tru-Trac 8.5", hydroboost, rear disc brakes......and my greatest mechanical feat....a new heater core.
  #17  
Old 02-12-2008, 08:58 PM
Chad Chad is offline
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David,
Thanks for the additional information. I really appreciate it!
Chad

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Old 02-12-2008, 09:13 PM
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4dblnkldude 4dblnkldude is online now
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Hands down the best header money can buy!!!! I bought a set three years ago for my 69 e headed bird. One of the best aftermarket products I ever bought. They look awesome.

  #19  
Old 02-12-2008, 11:50 PM
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I hope my round ports go as well.

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Old 02-13-2008, 12:58 AM
ScottD3 ScottD3 is offline
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Are your Ram Airr lll manifolds for sale? Round or D port?

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