[ahub421]

Beware
I had a buddy go look at it for me, this sellers description has almost nothing to do with reality. They claim all original with every moving part rebuilt. Try motor, trans and rear end not orig. and all moving parts need to be rebuilt. The car looks great in the few pics but has patch panels and a rusty trunk. It won't idle, leaks gas and oil, brakes and front end scary!

[Andre]

post link to ad please

[Dick Boneske]

The auction you're referring to is 320296658574. Looks like body is straight, interior is fresh. Tripower and engine looks nicely detailed and has mostly correct pieces. The seller pointed out most of the defects you mentioned in his listing. Wrong stamping on engine for '64 GTO, but correct casting numbers. Someone will get a straight '64 GTO hardtop for mid $20K. The above posting portrays the car as a complete POS. That may be true for a numbers-matching collector, but then the price would be in the $40-50K range. Looks to me like the car is as good or better than the average '64 GTO seen at car shows.

[ahub421]

I agree the body and paint are nice but I just wanted to save someone from the heart ache of buying a car that is not as advertised. As for what it will bring, it's a tad early to tell that. There may be some who believe the seller without inspecting it. I was really hoping to have found a nice high optioned car (ac, tripower 4 speed) that was ready to drive.

The top end of the motor is there but car was made on 6/17 intake was cast on 6/4???

It has a nice pedigree but the sellers claims of all moving parts are rebuilt, all other detailed is a bold faced lie. Spray can overhaul.

[Andre]

The car looks like a gift for a sale in the mid 20's. Agree if you want a numbers, completely restored tripower 4speed hardtop with a/c in show condition, that the starting price would be north of $35k.

[Jerry H.]

car was made on 6/17 intake was cast on 6/4???

Sounds about right to me.

[jjscerbo]

I concur...

[Dick Boneske]

ahub421, The winning bid was $28,776.01. Someone got a nice, straight '64 GTO hardtop. The days of finding a '64 with everything original for this price are long gone. If the new owner is concerned about "correct" for the engine block, etc., I'm sure he can find the parts. Finding a '64 GTO with a body this straight is not so easy, however. As an owner of two of these cars, we feel good any time one sells for a decent price.

[6 Grrrs]

Looks like a decent car. It is tough to find a 44 year old 'musclecar' that is completely original. Especially a first year, tripower GTO. Remember, these were just a car back then. Look at how many newer Mustangs, GTOs & Camaros are so heavily modified these days. I know a guy who has a White/red int. '65 4bbl GTO Hdtp that is completely original & I know he wouldn't let it go for anywhere near that low of a price. His father bought it new & kept it nice all these years. It hasn't seen rain since like 1977.

[John V.]

I had contacted the Seller during the bidding. I was interested because he showed a copy of a supposedly original Window Sticker. I tried to get confirmation that it is a legit original with the reverse side printing of the '64 sales slogan (repros don't bother with that). The slogan generally will show up in copies but didn't on the pic he posted. He didn't explicitly confirm the slogan is printed on his "original" but he is convinced it is original and not a repro.

The Data Plate shows the 2P code, but no Radio on the Window Sticker. He claims to not have the PHS himself but was told by potential Buyers that supposedly did purchase the PHS record that it does not show a radio option. I'm real curious about the 2P code on the Data Plate.

The Data Plate does confirm it is a factory AC car and factory Cordova top car.

But it was originally Marimba Red with Black Cordova Top, not Starlight Black.

None of this to be critical of the car. Ahub421, you did the right thing by checking for things that were important to you. I'm not sure what you know about correct/original '64 A body rears, so assume you (or your buddy) know how to identify one (this being a late build could have had a '65 p/n 9779822 on the center casting assuming it has a correct May/June '64 cast date).

Seller said it was an older resto and not frame off. When he discovered the Block was not original, he posted that. I'm guessing ahub421's input may have had something to do with the Seller stating it may need some attention before beginning a long trip.

I've never tried to associate Intake cast date codes with build dates, but typically, for a Pontiac built car, the cast date of the '64 Blocks are even closer to the Production Date of the car than what you have indicated for the Intake. I would be more suspicious if the Intake had an earlier cast date, but since the original Block is gone, the original Motor Unit No. is gone and therefore no way to judge when the original Engine was assembled (therefore can't be sure what cast dates would be valid), though I'd estimate an MUN of around 550000 would be close. Guessing at the cast dates from the car's production date or the Time Built code on the Data Plate when nobody knows what those dates exactly pertain to, can be a confounding exercise.

I noted that the car shows Power Steering, yet the Window Sticker shows the Sales Code 612 Handling Kit that included the Quick Ratio 20:1 Manual Steering Box (consequently, not available with Power Steering). No explanation given for that, but a PS conversion could have been done during resto or when the car was new. Power Steering was available as a Dealer Accessory Package so not much can be made of the discrepancy, just that Power Steering was not apparently factory installed (unless the Manifest record proves otherwise).

Any '64 GTO with factory AC is appealing to me today.

Seller said it is not a museum piece.

Certainly didn't go cheap. By the bidding, I'd judge the market valued it around $25,000. Looks like a couple guys really wanted it, pushed the bid up at the end but I wouldn't count on this car bidding to $29K consistently.

Ahub421 says that the cosmetics were not as good as the pics suggested. That might be bad enough, but I would argue that Sellers can't be faulted for not nit-picking the cosmetics, that is up to the Buyer to discern. But he also says "it won't idle, leaks gas and oil, brakes and front end scary!".

My impression is that he doesn't think it is a driver in current condition. He didn't go into specifics so it is hard to say if he believes the brakes wouldn't stop the car with the pedal to the floor or if the shoes were just worn to the rivets? Leaks gas because of rusty fuel lines or bad hose clamp? Oil drips from valve cover gasket or puddling from seriously bad rear main seal and/or thick cloud of blue smoke from exhaust? Scary front end because of broken components or old shocks?

But responses seemed to focus on whether it was all original or not. I could be wrong but if the car was mechanically a solid driver, I think ahub421 would not have been so critical of it. A non-original block, rear, & trans might be a disappointment but not that serious on a driver. But if the car shouldn't be driven on public roads in current condition, $29K may be too stiff.

Auction is ended, here's the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ayphotohosting

Only the Buyer will be able to say if he thinks he got what he bargained for.

But if I was bidding for it, I think I'd take ahub421's comments seriously and want to know more details from his inspection. Rusty trunk might suggest lots of rust underneath. Patch panels in the trunk or elsewhere? I admit to being seriously out of touch with '64 GTO valuations. But for a $29K Hardtop, I'd expect at least a pretty solid driver.

Check the link and reconsider the last 2 sentences of the original post. Do you still think the listing is reasonably described or is it possible the Seller is blowing way too much smoke up a potential bidders dress.

I really hope the Buyer gets the car of his dreams and winds up posting here about it. But it is entirely possible that he will feel shafted once he discovers some of the things ahub421 discovered.

If Dick Boneske is right and it can be driven directly to the local car shows and outclass most '64s there, Buyer should be happy. But if it isn't drivable, I wonder how happy he'll be.

Opinions?

[ahub421]

Really the issue I wanted to expose was I was 100% convinced the seller knowingly overstated it's condition and he refused to devulge it's many issues even after having his nose pushed into them. I would love to know such things about a car I wanted to buy and of the seller's honesty before hand.

As for the car, I spent the money for plane tickets, rental car etc. because I really want a real tripower, 4 speed, ac car with the drive train intact. It's colors were also great, was red but now black/ hurt me some more please. I had thought with the poor pics it would go for about what it did and I would have done that or more had it been what was claimed. Had the seller been forthcoming I may still have been in the game in the lower to mid 20s but I'd rather keep looking than pay a snake.

The rear was not a late 64, patch panels in both lower rear quarters., gas leaking from 2 carbs and fuel pump, oil from several points on the engine and PS box. brakes hard but doesn't want to stop, who knows, scortched, frozen wheel cylinders??? And yes the intake could be correct. My guess is it had been sitting for many years without running. As for driving it as is, ya if you have big balls, three feet and really good Carma.

For someone who is willing to go through everything that it would take to make it a reliable driver and who doesn't care the hard parts are not original it would be a nice car, to expensive in the end but a nice car.

Let's see if it pops up again. Zero feedbacks on the buyer????? Hope he inspects it before handing over the money.

[Keith Seymore]

I will admit it looks pretty nice in the pictures.

However, like JohnV, if I was seriously interested I would want to know about the things ahub421 posted. For that, Ahub, I salute you and thank you for posting (...I am not in the market, by the way).

I am also suspicious of that zero-feedback buyer that popped up out of nowhere. Let's see if this car comes back again.

K

[John V.]

Yup, ditto all that from Keith too. I've already been checking to see if any feedback is posted to see if the deal is even completed.

As somebody who has actually bid/bought a vehicle sight unseen off ebay and bought another local vehicle I watched during the ebay auction and after his ebay Buyer failed to show, I think I am a bit familiar with the game.

My opinion, a very high percentage of vehicles auctioned on ebay, that actually meet reserve and have a "winning" bidder, do not change hands. Those that assume they do and base valuations on the winning bids will be misled.

Would not surprise me if the winning bidder here fails to even contact the Seller, much less complete the purchase.

ahub421, I think you did the right thing. I'm sure you know, there are always better deals out there if you are patient.

[GTOnly70]

$28k is a LOT of money for that car in the current market. The seller did very well if it's indeed a legitimate sale (always questionable with zero feedback buyers...). Wrong motor, wrong color, needs lots of work. Meh. Not well bought, IMHO.