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Old 04-09-2012, 10:24 AM
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I dont think anything fits Lynns heads from a factory V head.Tom

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Old 04-09-2012, 11:01 AM
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These measurements should be close. I haven't checked the other head yet though.
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Old 04-09-2012, 03:52 PM
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best I can figure without a head in front of me,I get 2 in between studs center to center and 2.720-2.730 between 2 center studs.FWIW,Tom
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Old 04-09-2012, 04:46 PM
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best I can figure without a head in front of me,I get 2 in between studs center to center and 2.720-2.730 between 2 center studs.FWIW,Tom
Thanks Tom,
As I expected, it won’t fit

I need to weight the cost of rocker arms suitable for the 705+ open spring pressure, long rockers studs for girdle, adjustable guide plates, and a custom stud girdle against just shipping the heads out and having a rockershaft made.

Ed

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Old 04-09-2012, 05:52 PM
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I told you had mine made.Tom

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Old 04-09-2012, 06:11 PM
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what seat pressure you shooting for ?

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Old 04-10-2012, 07:06 AM
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what seat pressure you shooting for ?
Current seat pressure is ~275lb.

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Old 04-10-2012, 01:14 PM
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cannt remember if we talked about this -- but that is pretty low for a boosted engine

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Old 04-10-2012, 02:23 PM
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cannt remember if we talked about this -- but that is pretty low for a boosted engine
We did, I also discuss this with a few of the other guys familiar with boosted engines. The general consensus was that 275lb was light for a 2.30 Victory stainless valve.

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Old 04-10-2012, 05:23 PM
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I agree -- considering at 10 lb of boost you have over 40 lb of offset pressure on the valve/valvespring at 20lb you have a 195lb spring - way to lite for any rpm -- good luck

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Old 04-10-2012, 06:46 PM
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I agree -- considering at 10 lb of boost you have over 40 lb of offset pressure on the valve/valvespring at 20lb you have a 195lb spring - way to lite for any rpm -- good luck
Is there a calculation for this? How many lbs of spring pressure would you effectively lose with a 2.20" valve at 10lbs of boost?

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Old 04-10-2012, 09:24 PM
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Is there a calculation for this? How many lbs of spring pressure would you effectively lose with a 2.20" valve at 10lbs of boost?
The way I understand it...(please correct me if someone has different info)...
2.2valve = 3.801215 sq inches. 10 pounds square inch boost x 3.801215 sq in = 38.01215 lbs above atmospheric pressure pushing against the valve. Its probably a tid less as I didnt subtract the area the valve stem occupies Probably valve shape and other factors somewhat affect the actual loading. But in this example I'd want to use a spring with 35-40 more pounds open pressure above what would be suggested for an NA motor.


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  #253  
Old 04-11-2012, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceWilkie View Post
The way I understand it...(please correct me if someone has different info)...
2.2valve = 3.801215 sq inches. 10 pounds square inch boost x 3.801215 sq in = 38.01215 lbs above atmospheric pressure pushing against the valve. Its probably a tid less as I didnt subtract the area the valve stem occupies Probably valve shape and other factors somewhat affect the actual loading. But in this example I'd want to use a spring with 35-40 more pounds open pressure above what would be suggested for an NA motor.
Here is a link with more info...

http://www.pontiaczone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23351

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Old 04-11-2012, 03:33 PM
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I dont think anything fits Lynns heads from a factory V head.Tom
This is totally not true. It is also the third time I have had to rebuke this statement. Tom received serial number 002 castings. He knew it was also before any QC on the heads as he was going to have his cylinder head man address any issues. We had a few that were all easily corrected with additional machining which we did to mine and one other set.

Tom so graciously sent a set of his stock RAV reproduction guideplates. and we sent huge efforts to be sure they all matched. We also made sure all the rocker studs matched the stock configuration. We were so grateful for Don Chapman for his stock intake to properly match the intake runner flanges to the stock OEM intakes.

We also made the intake flanges that can be milled for short deck blocks! We have gone to considerable expense, time, and technical resource to make a direct replacement. I hope this clears up this issue.

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Last edited by NHRASuperStock455SD; 04-11-2012 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 04-12-2012, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAIV-Z View Post
Thanks Tom,
As I expected, it won’t fit

I need to weight the cost of rocker arms suitable for the 705+ open spring pressure, long rockers studs for girdle, adjustable guide plates, and a custom stud girdle against just shipping the heads out and having a rockershaft made.

Ed

You have alternate intake valve placement Ed that would require specials. No big deal, but you have to send the head in. The last time I had special Jesels made up, it took 4 months. I have two sets and $4600 in two sets on my super stocker.

RAV is not the same as a stock Pontiac, Edelbrock is not the same as either. Our engines that have rocker shafts will also more than likely alternate intake valve placements. We made the decision to keep the stock locations as the OEM RAV engines for the guys who wanted a direct bolt on alum heads since Pontiac made about 200 sets to do a close as possible replacement head.

The head porter's head is required for valve movement which provides a huge advantage for heads up style performance trying to match performance of our competition in certain racing avenues against the newer style heads.

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Last edited by NHRASuperStock455SD; 04-12-2012 at 02:02 PM.
  #256  
Old 04-12-2012, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgeise View Post
I agree -- considering at 10 lb of boost you have over 40 lb of offset pressure on the valve/valvespring at 20lb you have a 195lb spring - way to lite for any rpm -- good luck
Eds engine design was to drive this engine on the street. This is the maximum spring pressure Tony will do for any engine going for any trips on the street.

If making this a dediicated race car, we might have done things a bit differently and all mostly in the valve train. Same as my street engine on High Performance Pontiac. I think my street engine with just springs could make upwards of 900HP.

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Old 04-12-2012, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by NHRASuperStock455SD View Post
You have alternate intake valve placement Ed that would require specials. No big deal, but you have to send the head in. The last time I had special Jesels made up, it took 4 months. I have two sets and $4600 in two sets on my super stocker.

RAV is not the same as a stock Pontiac, Edelbrock is not the same as either. Our engines that have rocker shafts will also more than likely alternate intake valve placements. We made the decision to keep the stock locations as the OEM RAV engines for the guys who wanted a direct bolt on alum heads since Pontiac made about 200 sets to do a close as possible replacement head.

The head porter's head is required for valve movement which provides a huge advantage for heads up style performance trying to match performance of our competition in certain racing avenues against the newer style heads.
Lynn,
Don’t be silly, I know the intake valves were moved and if you read what was stated above you’ll see that I know the heads will have to be sent out to have a rocker shaft made. Short term I would have been ok with stud mounted rockers if a stud girdle was added and the only other change was to install the appropriate rocker studs. However this is not the case, the rockers are only rated for “450lb open” and guide plates will also need to be replaced.

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Old 04-13-2012, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by NHRASuperStock455SD View Post
Eds engine design was to drive this engine on the street. This is the maximum spring pressure Tony will do for any engine going for any trips on the street.

If making this a dediicated race car, we might have done things a bit differently and all mostly in the valve train. Same as my street engine on High Performance Pontiac. I think my street engine with just springs could make upwards of 900HP.
Lynn,

The design goal from the beginning was for a pump-gas engine capable of 1600HP, i.e. something which could be used for events like dragweek. If you read the Turbonetics spreadsheet you posted, you’ll see that it’s going to take substantial boost pressure to hit the target horsepower goal. I’d appreciate it if the boost experts or anyone familiar with running boosted engines posts what the spring seat pressure should be to meet the original design goal. LSM is recommending 300lbs. If additional information is needed please let me know.

The valve train parts should have been selected based what was required to work reliably with the entire package.

Crane Energizer Roller Rocker…

What were you thinking; especially after I told you they are not up to the task and to get either stainless crower or a shaft system. I believe this was around the time you told me the rocker stud holes were being welded up and relocated because of alignment issues. You, Tony and I know the right thing to do would have been to send the head out and have a shaft made. From a cost point of view it would have most likely been close to a wash and taken maybe 2 additional months.

Who made the final call to move the studs?

  #259  
Old 04-13-2012, 07:58 PM
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Hi Ed
Since you brought it up, did you sign up for drag week? Me and a buddy will be taking our cars this year. He has a mustang so I couldnt let him get away with that so I decided Im taking mine too. I signed up for a easier class but will move my car into the unlimited class when I get there. Now I gotta build a second fuel system, add a seat for a passenger, lights, air filters, etc.! I hoped you signed up and can push the project forward to make it.

BTW, when I got my cam from Butler I called Comp right after my dyno session. My springs checked out at 330lbs seat and they said to use them and dont worry about it. Had I told them 280lbs they said they would have recommended replacing them.

Even though I didnt get past 5100rpm in my dyno pulls I feel pretty confident I was gonna be fine. I'm not a expert but the dyno man thought I was on track as well. I wouldnt call him a expert either but he has a lot more expierence than I do.

Any updates on the chassis?

Jeff

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Old 04-13-2012, 08:57 PM
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Rated? I go by 30 years of racing experience. Tony said he has never had any problems with this style rocker. About 10 of us ran them for years with way more spring pressure. I still have two sets about 30 years old and they are still fine. I didnt go to rocker shafts until we went to 430 on the seat and 1250 open. We ran 330 seat and 800 open with these rockers for years.

I think being silly was the words I used to you in an email when discussing this issue, now you choose to use it to me on a public forum. Nice Ed.

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Last edited by NHRASuperStock455SD; 04-13-2012 at 09:21 PM.
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