[muscle_collector]

ok lloyd, help me out on this one. this thread started on the bosses new girlfriend thread and i didnt want to steal his show on his new bitchin gf so i started the new thread.

here is the deal. first right out of the pontiac 1972 salesmans book and the 1972 pontiac accessories brochure which is in the master book, it shows the endura styling option is not available with the GT option. however if you look at the phs it is definately on there.

second, which wheels would this car have come with?
the Y99 handling package shows that it would have come with 15 x 7 steel disc wheels with the G60-15 tires. but the gt package shows it to come with rallye 2 wheels without trim rings. so would it have come with 15 x7 steel disc with poverty caps or 14 x 6 rallyes or would it get the 15 x 7 rallyes??
the original owner told me that it came with the 15 steel disc with poverty caps and that is what is still has on it.

let the opinions start please.

[muscle_collector]

i forgot to include the Y99 handling package info, which throws the loop as to did this upgrade to 15 rallyes or just go with the 15 steel disc wheels.

[muscle_collector]

i just realized i cut off the code numbers on the phs sheet. so here is another shot of it.

[bigborehunter]

I think I can clear up some confusion as to availability of goodies. GT option is sales code 332. It includes rally II wheels with G70x14 white letter tires. The handling package code 724 includes G60x15 tires which can appear SEPARATELY as TXL. Since G60x15 is a separate, billable option it takes precedence on a PHS document over the G70x14 wheel/tire combo as it is an upgrade. I believe that is how it appears on a PHS document. It will have different codes on a buildsheet and the sales documents today list standard equipment at top plus extra specific options below. I believe some of teh older Pontiac invoices on cars had that as well.
You can order the G60x15 tires all by them selves and will come with steel wheels and dog dish hubcaps. All that will appear on PHS is TXL. ONly GTOs could get this alone as far as I know.
By the way, I cannot see why Pontiac said GT and Endura options weren't compatible as there isn't any conflicting material there. So its a good question.

[UPC-WU2]

Good questions.
The '72 LeMans order form also shows that the Endura was not available with the GT package. The sales literature was produced before production even started and we all know that changes happened during the model year. The wheel question is a good one. I would guess that a GT with Y99 would get 15" Rally IIs w/o trim rings and with white-letter tires, but I honestly do not know.

Order form:
http://www.gt-37.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=1679
Back side:
http://www.gt-37.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=1682

I'm staying tuned to this thread.

[bigborehunter]

Looking at Chris's Lemans, you have every right to be confused. It has a LOT of options on it. Looking at it, I'd say 14 inch honeycombs and G70x14 tires are what it had new. Can't explain the GT and endura business and not going to try.

[UPC-WU2]

What is the 734 Sport Option? It doesn't show on the order form I posted.

[bigborehunter]

I listed 724 handling package, not 734. However, looking at Chris' PHS I realized I made a mistake. I must have been looking at your PHS, thinking it was his. Chris' car has honeycombs and G70x14 but no WW5. I will correct that previous post. Now that I;'ve compared my PHS with yours, I see they both have no wheel options. Mine does have TXL. It would appear your car was a 14 inch steel wheel and dogdish hubcap car. As for 734 Lemans Sport option, I have no further description of what it contains but it has come up many times in the forums.

[muscle_collector]

Originally Posted by UPC-WU2

What is the 734 Sport Option? It doesn't show on the order form I posted.

i was told it was the lemans sport option. i originally had the conversation many moons ago with john sawruck. i didnt tell him i owned the car and questioned the availability of these combos. he said according to the info he had, you couldnt combine them, but never say never. i then told him i owned it and gave him the vin and he pulled the phs on it (easier for him to do than for me to mail it to him) and was pretty much baffled as to what the deal was and what wheel combo it would have had. he referred me to fred simmons who suggested i look for the build sheet and i was really busy traveling alot back then and never got around to it and really never much thought about it again until this thread jogged my memory.
i personally would think like bigborehunter, that since you got the rallyes with the gt option and then you paid extra for the handling pkg, it should give you the 15" rallyes. but again, it has 15" steel wheels and the original owner swore it came that way. where would the buildsheet be located on a 72 model?

[supcarbob]

The Endura styling option (T41) became available on Oct. 7 '71 per Car Distribution Bulletin #72-44. It also stated that 455 H.O was now available due to this change. Car order forms after this did reflect the changes. We sold a handful of T41 on GT models in '72. We also had one Y99 Handling package GT and it had Rally II wheels with out trim rings.The Sport Option is for the bucket seats and specific door panels.

[muscle_collector]

Originally Posted by supcarbob

The Endura styling option (T41) became available on Oct. 7 '71 per Car Distribution Bulletin #72-44. It also stated that 455 H.O was now available due to this change. Car order forms after this did reflect the changes. We sold a handful of T41 on GT models in '72. We also had one Y99 Handling package GT and it had Rally II wheels with out trim rings.The Sport Option is for the bucket seats and specific door panels.

did it get the 14 or the 15 rallyes or do you even remember a detail like that??

[The Boss]

It had to have the T-41 to have the 455HO - as Ram Air was a mandatory option with the HO & you couldn't have that without the T-41.

Yours has the Y99 package where mine has the Y96 - I don't think you could get 15" wheels on the convertible, but I could be wrong.

Killer car - got a picture of it somewhere?

[Forrest]

Since were talking about ho's ect..Just thought I would throw in my 72 HO conv. for reference..most of you'all know about it

[muscle_collector]

nice car and another example that contradicts the sales literature having the gt with the endura.

is that a beige with white top? what is the 731 interior color?

[PB]

Okay, my HO lemans has the same Y99 option as your HO lemans (Handling PKG 724) If you got that pkg, then 15" rims was in order. My car came with 15" Ralley II's...they are coded KR. Mine ALSO has trim rings. I think the KR 15" wheels..and the 71 15"..some were KR also and there is another code that escapes me right now...(the same 15" wheel with the 14" center) those in 71 did not come with trim rings, like on the 71 Judges. I'm guessing in 72, those all came with trim rings.

[74 SD455 Formula]

Originally Posted by PB

Okay, my HO lemans has the same Y99 option as your HO lemans (Handling PKG 724) If you got that pkg, then 15" rims was in order. My car came with 15" Ralley II's...they are coded KR. Mine ALSO has trim rings. I think the KR 15" wheels..and the 71 15"..some were KR also and there is another code that escapes me right now...(the same 15" wheel with the 14" center) those in 71 did not come with trim rings, like on the 71 Judges. I'm guessing in 72, those all came with trim rings.

The early 71 15" with 14" center's were KN's.

[gto4door]

You would think that muscle_collector's car would have come with 15" Rally II's since the customer paid for both the GT Option and the Lemans Handling Package. The build sheet will tell us for sure what type of 15" rims (Steel vs Rally IIs) came on the car. Hopefully, Gary can find the build sheet someday. If the car was built with the steel wheels, you would think a credit would have been issued on the PHS invoice for the deletion of the 14" Rally IIs that came standard with the GT Option.

For what it is worth there is an article about a 72 Lemans GT with the Lemans Handling Package and wearing 15" Rally II's found in the March 1972 issue of Super Stock Magazine that can be found on UPC-WU2's www.GT-37.org website (see below link). The second page of the article mentions the Handling Package and the 15" Rally II wheels. Note that this GT (with 15" Rally IIs) is wearing trim rings. Another contradiction since GTs did not come with trim rings. This is why 1972 is such an interesting year.

http://www.gt-37.org/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=342

[marxjunk]

I parted a 72 Lemans GT hardtop in the early 90s...it had endura...thats why i parted it i wanted the endura...I used the fenders on one car and the hood and bumper stuff on another years later...I know it was origianl, it had the original paint still on the car, it was red with black side stripe, buckets, console, 400-4..it had 15in ralley IIs, and i sold them to a guy that wanted those coded wheels for a GTO..and the guy acted like i saved his life,,,i thought he was a sucker, after all...they weren't honeys...

boy that car was solid and sooo original..as a matter of fact thinking back, i parted a couple, because i discovered that was an untapped venue for enduras...no one was building them, we where parting them...and building GTOs..you could almost bet it it was in the paper and advertised as a GT it had endura..i only went and looked at one that wasnt an endura car..

i actually bought a front seat out of a lemans GT out of the paper and the build sheet was in the seat bottom and that build sheet was for an endra car and both options where spelled out..it was a mint white bench seat, and the car was green, but i dont remeber how i figured it was green...

I put the seat im my 71 GT37 it was dark green w/white, bench 4 speed...i dunno, but i tell time of my past on the junk i was driving..and relate everything to it...

[muscle_collector]

cool article. i have always felt the car should get the 15" rallyes, and i agree you would think that there should be a credit given for no rallyes if it was delivered that way. i wouldnt mind taking out the back seat, but dont want to pull the tank. any chance they put the build sheets from this plant behind the back seats????

[PB]

What plant was it built? I've found 'em behind door panels, under carpet on pass side too.