[71 Ventura II]

We were looking for a producer of titanium pushrods but haven't found any. I've seen Harley Davidson pushrods but no V8 offerings. Anyone know if this is a reality or what? JD

[Curious George]

I don't think weight on that side of the rocker arm is concern enough to spend the extra $$$.

[71 Ventura II]

Originally Posted by Curious George

I don't think weight on that side of the rocker arm is concern enough to spend the extra $$$.

This all started with a "bench racing" session at a friends work. Apparently there's a few guys there who believe all Nascar engines are running Ti pushrods. I stated I'd never heard this before nor seen any forsale. This did not detour their belief.

Sorry, I mentioned to them the long pushrod length of the Pontiac V8 and caused the comment that any builder of a Pontiac should be using them...

Their theory was in a tall deck application the "Mass/Weight" is reduced by running a Ti retainer/beehive spring/Ti valve on the one side then run lite weight roller lifters with Ti pushrods on the other to help offset the long PR length.

I tried to explain the Pontiac V8 does't really see enough rpm to make it cost effective. Not sure if they got it! lol

[Half-Inch Stud]

Ti-Pushrods..why not.

[mgarblik]

I have seen some glass reinforced fiber pushrods tried in a hemi-application, as they don't carry oil through them. Both in round and a weird octagonal type cross-section. I think the work was researched by Trend and run on the Spintron. This was about 10 years ago. I never heard any more about it. Titanium I have never seen used, although there is no reason it couldn't be. A set for a Pontiac of a large enough diameter would have to cost a fortune. Figure each one is roughly double the length of a valve and a titanium intake valve is $130.00-150.00 each. Too rich for my blood.

[Tom McQueen]

According to this article, the new LS-7 engine has Ti pushrods and Ti connecting rods.

http://autospeed.com/cms/title_GMs-L...8/article.html

Dont know if its true or not.

[greggutknecht]

Had my parts manager look up a set and they cost over 300.00 a piece but you cant get them anymore,must not have sold many.

[John Langer]

1/2 to 7/16 double taper steel flex. Ya think titanium would be better?

[Half-Inch Stud]

Titanium is plenty stiff. This County in Eastern PA is perhaps the original epi-center for specialty tubing. A couple 100 year old facilities that draw stainless tubing, and other metals. Many companies in the area doing production tubing. Ti-tubing for Hydrazine plumbing is standard material.
Ti Pushrods would need to be thicker wall to be "better" than 1/2 to 7/16 steel, but would be lighter. Straight tubing is basic.
Seems possible to contract-fab Ti rods with Press-fit steel ball ends.
================================================== ==========
Seems more likely to have a sort of "Isky Rev Kit" to do the heavy work.

[Elarson]

Compared to steel, titanium is roughly half the weight and half the stiffness.

To keep the same mechanical deflections, you'd have to go heavier wall (which would delete the weight benefits) or larger diameter (always good but who has the room?).

Since the ratio of stiffness to weight is nearly identical, the natural frequencies of the (2) materials....if they were dimensionally equal, would be unchanged.

If space was unlimited, a larger diameter thin wall titanium pushrod might be a benefit. In a space-limited head, it's going to be hard to improve on the current steel pushrods.

But it was a good question....
Eric

[Half-Inch Stud]

Ti-alloy ought be Grade 5 or jump to the high grades, Oxygen-free. Nickel-plated at 1000C in a Hydrogen furnace. Stiff. Thicken the middle zone beyond Steel OD & ID. No sausage.

[bryansMtngto]

Just wondering for Pontiac's and even that LS 7 motor is the cost worth it and do they give enough weight reduction or advantage to justify going that direction?? I can see it possibly high RPM (10K+) but for 8K motor???

[Tom McQueen]

Originally Posted by bryansMtngto

Just wondering for Pontiac's and even that LS 7 motor is the cost worth it and do they give enough weight reduction or advantage to justify going that direction?? I can see it possibly high RPM (10K+) but for 8K motor???

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Agreed. You just have to look at the 'money is no object' world of Pro-Stock. If there was any miniscule gain to be had with a Ti pushrod, they would all be using them.

So while it might be possible to use Ti for a pushrod, the cost/benefit ratio just isnt there.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Again; it seems wiser to employ a Rev-Kit; put a Spring to a landing on each Steel pushrod to take out the Lifter & Pushrod mass, and ALLOW lesser Valvespring force.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by 71 Ventura II

We were looking for a producer of titanium pushrods but haven't found any. I've seen Harley Davidson pushrods but no V8 offerings. Anyone know if this is a reality or what? JD

Titanium Pushrods

"Most performance pushrod engines suffer from "pushrod flex", in which the pushrods are bowed at high RPM due to heavy valve spring pressure and high valve lift. This results in erratic valve timing and power loss. Chrome-moly pushrods do solve this problem, but they are heavy and inflict a power loss due to the increased weight. Aluminum pushrods with a larger diameter rod also solve the problem, but with only a slight decrease in weight. Titanium pushrods have 1/2 the weight and twice the strength of chrome-moly. Not only do they solve the flexing problem, but they also actually provide a few extra HP due to weight reduction. Titanium pushrods are ordered by length, and you can specify any length you want at no extra charge. The price is $35.00 per pushrod. See the Camshaft & Valve Train page."

http://www.paeco.com/Titanium%20Products.htm

Tom Vaught

[Elarson]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Titanium Pushrods

"Most performance pushrod engines suffer from "pushrod flex", in which the pushrods are bowed at high RPM due to heavy valve spring pressure and high valve lift. This results in erratic valve timing and power loss. Chrome-moly pushrods do solve this problem, but they are heavy and inflict a power loss due to the increased weight. Aluminum pushrods with a larger diameter rod also solve the problem, but with only a slight decrease in weight. Titanium pushrods have 1/2 the weight and twice the strength of chrome-moly. Not only do they solve the flexing problem, but they also actually provide a few extra HP due to weight reduction. Titanium pushrods are ordered by length, and you can specify any length you want at no extra charge. The price is $35.00 per pushrod. See the Camshaft & Valve Train page."

http://www.paeco.com/Titanium%20Products.htm

Tom Vaught

But the Youngs Modulus (stiffness) is only 16-something million psi...approx half the stiffness of steel. Strength doesn't govern the amount of flex....only governs the failure point. This ad sounds like it was written by the marketing dept.

Eric

[Dragncar]

Hey, if the top Hemi Super Stock guys can put to use a 10,000$ ti crankshaft why not pushrods for our engine ?
They make plenty of rods out of the stuff, and a few cranks so someone has to make them.

[Tom Vaught]

I am not a big fan of titanium parts. Saw Dave Johnson spend a lot of money for minimal gain with the stuff.

Tom Vaught

[Elarson]

Aircraft engines use titanium to great advantage in certain parts and it is strictly forbidden for other parts. It is not a universal miracle material. Each application has to be judged independently.

Eric