Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-22-2012, 07:41 AM
LeighP's Avatar
LeighP LeighP is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,637
Default 73 T/A - Option list shows LS2 but VIN is a Y code???



Notice it lists the LS2 455SD as an option, yet the car has a Y code in the VIN. Also interesting is that the VIN is an early build number (owner has blanked out the last of the VIN) but the shipping date is Sep 14, 1973...by this stage they would have been building the 74 models.....so where was this car sitting all that time, and why?

The car is a buccaneer red 73 T/A that a friend bought to restore.....mostly original except it's conversion to RHD (for Aurstralia) a long time ago. I'm getting him to check the engine partial VIN to see whats on it.

__________________
Regards,
Leigh
Pontiacs I’ve owned….
1960 Laurentian 283
1963 Laurentian 283
1976 Trans Am 400
1977 Trans Am 400
1951 Chieftain Flat head 6
1967 Firebird 400 convertible
1967 Firebird 400 coupe
1979 Trans Am 403
1971 Formula 455 (clone)
1969 Firebird 350
1968 Firebird 428 manual.
Sydney, Australia
  #2  
Old 07-22-2012, 08:11 AM
Held for Ransom's Avatar
Held for Ransom Held for Ransom is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,937
Default

It would be interesting if Jim had another invoice on this car.
It was build for zone inventory, but that really doesn't make too much sense because of the SD. Might have be a show car of some sort.

  #3  
Old 07-22-2012, 10:48 AM
Rocky Rotella's Avatar
Rocky Rotella Rocky Rotella is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 2,686
Default

It certainly looks like some type of showcar. It appears to have went up for bid at some point.

Does he have a buildsheet for the car?

Is there an engine in it? If so, any VIN or EUN number on it?

  #4  
Old 07-22-2012, 11:04 AM
LeighP's Avatar
LeighP LeighP is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,637
Default

I've got him checking the engine VIN...there is a matching date coded 455 in the car. Its an auto. Car is complete...fairly tired and needs restoring, but it ran.

Just checked the info posted on the Trim Tag - build date 12B - 2nd week of December, 1972. Sounds strange for it to have not shipped till the next September.

__________________
Regards,
Leigh
Pontiacs I’ve owned….
1960 Laurentian 283
1963 Laurentian 283
1976 Trans Am 400
1977 Trans Am 400
1951 Chieftain Flat head 6
1967 Firebird 400 convertible
1967 Firebird 400 coupe
1979 Trans Am 403
1971 Formula 455 (clone)
1969 Firebird 350
1968 Firebird 428 manual.
Sydney, Australia

Last edited by LeighP; 07-22-2012 at 11:26 AM.
  #5  
Old 07-22-2012, 08:24 PM
muscle_collector's Avatar
muscle_collector muscle_collector is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 3,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeighP View Post
I've got him checking the engine VIN...there is a matching date coded 455 in the car. Its an auto. Car is complete...fairly tired and needs restoring, but it ran.

Just checked the info posted on the Trim Tag - build date 12B - 2nd week of December, 1972. Sounds strange for it to have not shipped till the next September.
455 or 455 sd????

  #6  
Old 07-22-2012, 08:39 PM
MikeNoun's Avatar
MikeNoun MikeNoun is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Chi-Town, IL
Posts: 1,736
Default

I took the liberty of brightening up the invoice for everyone. Hope this helps.

Mike

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1973 Trans Am SD455 invoice - late ship date.jpg
Views:	1339
Size:	93.5 KB
ID:	291944  

__________________
1959-1980 Pontiac Window Sticker Reproductions : http://www.pontiacwindowstickers.com

My Bio: I am currently writing articles for POCI's Smoke Signals magazine and enjoy promoting and discussing the history of the Pontiac Motor Division.
  #7  
Old 07-23-2012, 01:49 AM
LeighP's Avatar
LeighP LeighP is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,637
Default

Thanks, nice job.

__________________
Regards,
Leigh
Pontiacs I’ve owned….
1960 Laurentian 283
1963 Laurentian 283
1976 Trans Am 400
1977 Trans Am 400
1951 Chieftain Flat head 6
1967 Firebird 400 convertible
1967 Firebird 400 coupe
1979 Trans Am 403
1971 Formula 455 (clone)
1969 Firebird 350
1968 Firebird 428 manual.
Sydney, Australia
  #8  
Old 07-23-2012, 09:00 AM
Lloyd-TX's Avatar
Lloyd-TX Lloyd-TX is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bellaire (HO-uston), Texas
Posts: 9,012
Default

Interested parties should ALWAYS pay Jim for their own invoice.

My opinion is that this car is a D-port car, with a faked invoice . . .

__________________
Regards,
"455HO" Lloyd


2008 GMC Sierra Denali 2WD Crew, L92 6L80E, Silver w/ Ebony guts, 14.26 @ 98
  #9  
Old 07-24-2012, 05:37 AM
LeighP's Avatar
LeighP LeighP is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,637
Default

The above scan came from the PHS documents that the owner received just a week or so ago.

__________________
Regards,
Leigh
Pontiacs I’ve owned….
1960 Laurentian 283
1963 Laurentian 283
1976 Trans Am 400
1977 Trans Am 400
1951 Chieftain Flat head 6
1967 Firebird 400 convertible
1967 Firebird 400 coupe
1979 Trans Am 403
1971 Formula 455 (clone)
1969 Firebird 350
1968 Firebird 428 manual.
Sydney, Australia
  #10  
Old 07-24-2012, 09:35 AM
Lloyd-TX's Avatar
Lloyd-TX Lloyd-TX is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bellaire (HO-uston), Texas
Posts: 9,012
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeighP View Post
The above scan came from the PHS documents that the owner received just a week or so ago.
Well - that's interesting news . . .

Did Jim send along any notes concerning the "Y" VIN and SD in the option list?

__________________
Regards,
"455HO" Lloyd


2008 GMC Sierra Denali 2WD Crew, L92 6L80E, Silver w/ Ebony guts, 14.26 @ 98
  #11  
Old 07-24-2012, 11:17 AM
Rocky Rotella's Avatar
Rocky Rotella Rocky Rotella is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 2,686
Default

Well, I think we can thank Jim Rotella for quite possibly figuring this one out.

He and I were discussing this topic a little while ago and how the Trans Am in question might have been some type of show car. When seeing that it sold at a bid price of $2,100 (per the PHS doc), we started thinking it instead might be some type of test mule.

In looking over the optional equipment, and noticing it was a non-A/C car, my dad said, "This sounds like the 1973 Super Duty Trans Am that Car & Driver, Hot Rod, and Motor Trend magazines each tested back then."

We just pulled the vintage articles and found that Car & Driver contained a complete list of optional equipment on the test car. I’m excited to say that it matches the PHS document exactly! The articles also note that the test car was Buccaneer Red with Saddle Custom, and the PHS document shows the same.

With that, it appears that the 1973 Trans Am in question was the original car tested by many magazines back then. Being built as a 1973 Y-code car and being retrofit with an SD-455 may explain why Hot Rod magazine noted that the secondary metering rods and transmission shift-point deviate from traditional production-SD .

I recall a 1983 issue of Auto Exchange magazine where a reader wrote about owning this car and at the time he had it, the SD-455 engine was still in it. I would guess that neither engine (the SD-455 or the d-port 455 in it now) will be numbers-matching, but Leigh will have to work to confirm that. Not sure about the transmission though.

Pretty cool find nonetheless!

  #12  
Old 07-24-2012, 11:35 AM
Lloyd-TX's Avatar
Lloyd-TX Lloyd-TX is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bellaire (HO-uston), Texas
Posts: 9,012
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky Rotella View Post
Well, I think we can thank Jim Rotella for quite possibly figuring this one out.

He and I were discussing this topic a little while ago and how the Trans Am in question might have been some type of show car. When seeing that it sold at a bid price of $2,100 (per the PHS doc), we started thinking it instead might be some type of test mule.

In looking over the optional equipment, and noticing it was a non-A/C car, my dad said, "This sounds like the 1973 Super Duty Trans Am that Car & Driver, Hot Rod, and Motor Trend magazines each tested back then."

We just pulled the vintage articles and found that Car & Driver contained a complete list of optional equipment on the test car. I’m excited to say that it matches the PHS document exactly! The articles also note that the test car was Buccaneer Red with Saddle Custom, and the PHS document shows the same.

With that, it appears that the 1973 Trans Am in question was the original car tested by many magazines back then. Being built as a 1973 Y-code car and being retrofit with an SD-455 may explain why Hot Rod magazine noted that the secondary metering rods and transmission shift-point deviate from traditional production-SD .

I recall a 1983 issue of Auto Exchange magazine where a reader wrote about owning this car and at the time he had it, the SD-455 engine was still in it. I would guess that neither engine (the SD-455 or the d-port 455 in it now) will be numbers-matching, but Leigh will have to work to confirm that. Not sure about the transmission though.

Pretty cool find nonetheless!
Well there you have it. Thanks Rocky (and Jim of course!).

__________________
Regards,
"455HO" Lloyd


2008 GMC Sierra Denali 2WD Crew, L92 6L80E, Silver w/ Ebony guts, 14.26 @ 98
  #13  
Old 07-24-2012, 12:07 PM
SD73's Avatar
SD73 SD73 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,061
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd-TX View Post
Well there you have it. Thanks Rocky (and Jim of course!).
Another one for the Rockford Files!

  #14  
Old 07-24-2012, 12:15 PM
Rocky Rotella's Avatar
Rocky Rotella Rocky Rotella is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 2,686
Default

To add to my previous post, if this is indeed the magazine test car, it really isn't surprising to find it was originally built with a Y-code 455. There were obviously no SD-455 engines at the Norwood assembly plant for vehicle installation during the week of 12B. So Pontiac purposely equipped a d-port Trans Am with specific options, which includes the G92 Performance Rear Axle, giving it 3.42 gears to make it equipped as it if were originally an SD-455/Auto/Non-AC combo. The SD-455 was undoubtedly installed after the fact.

Looking at the articles, we may have also answered why the car had “455” on the Shaker and a typical oil filler cap and PCV setup. I would guess that this also lies to rest the thought that the SD-455 engine in the test car was fitted with the 041-spec cam. The change to the 744-spec cam came early on. If anything, the engine was an early SD-455 with the 744-spec cam and first-type emissions system.

All this brings me to another point. I’d like to know if anyone had previously pulled the PHS on this or if there is any original paperwork about. If not, some buyer/owner/seller somewhere may have misidentified this car as an original Y-code Trans Am by the VIN and yanked/sold the SD-455 thinking it wasn’t correct to the car. Technically it isn’t, but if they only knew the real story!

  #15  
Old 07-24-2012, 01:59 PM
Lloyd-TX's Avatar
Lloyd-TX Lloyd-TX is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bellaire (HO-uston), Texas
Posts: 9,012
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky Rotella View Post
To add to my previous post, if this is indeed the magazine test car, it really isn't surprising to find it was originally built with a Y-code 455. There were obviously no SD-455 engines at the Norwood assembly plant for vehicle installation during the week of 12B. So Pontiac purposely equipped a d-port Trans Am with specific options, which includes the G92 Performance Rear Axle, giving it 3.42 gears to make it equipped as it if were originally an SD-455/Auto/Non-AC combo. The SD-455 was undoubtedly installed after the fact.

Looking at the articles, we may have also answered why the car had “455” on the Shaker and a typical oil filler cap and PCV setup. I would guess that this also lies to rest the thought that the SD-455 engine in the test car was fitted with the 041-spec cam. The change to the 744-spec cam came early on. If anything, the engine was an early SD-455 with the 744-spec cam and first-type emissions system.

All this brings me to another point. I’d like to know if anyone had previously pulled the PHS on this or if there is any original paperwork about. If not, some buyer/owner/seller somewhere may have misidentified this car as an original Y-code Trans Am by the VIN and yanked/sold the SD-455 thinking it wasn’t correct to the car. Technically it isn’t, but if they only knew the real story!
Great thoughts, Rocky.

Knowing the test car history, I'd dearly love to own this piece of PMD history, regardless of what engine currently resides between those frame rails. I'd build an "SR" SD (most likely with an "041 spec" camshaft) and equip it just like it was during those magazine tests!

The attached C & D article has got to be one of my all-time favorite vintage road tests!

Enjoy!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	73 TA SD road test P1 cropped.jpg
Views:	252
Size:	111.0 KB
ID:	292125   Click image for larger version

Name:	73 TA SD road test P3 cropped.jpg
Views:	227
Size:	115.0 KB
ID:	292126   Click image for larger version

Name:	73 TA SD road test P4 cropped.jpg
Views:	203
Size:	77.5 KB
ID:	292127   Click image for larger version

Name:	73 TA SD road test P5 cropped.jpg
Views:	171
Size:	90.5 KB
ID:	292128   Click image for larger version

Name:	73 TA SD road test P6 cropped.jpg
Views:	244
Size:	80.2 KB
ID:	292129  


__________________
Regards,
"455HO" Lloyd


2008 GMC Sierra Denali 2WD Crew, L92 6L80E, Silver w/ Ebony guts, 14.26 @ 98
  #16  
Old 07-24-2012, 02:03 PM
Lloyd-TX's Avatar
Lloyd-TX Lloyd-TX is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bellaire (HO-uston), Texas
Posts: 9,012
Default

Another thought, Rocky . . .

Wouldn't / shouldn't there be at least one additional invoice on this car, if Jim were to have the time to research it?

__________________
Regards,
"455HO" Lloyd


2008 GMC Sierra Denali 2WD Crew, L92 6L80E, Silver w/ Ebony guts, 14.26 @ 98
  #17  
Old 07-24-2012, 02:04 PM
The Boss's Avatar
The Boss The Boss is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newtown, CT
Posts: 15,454
Default

With the 997 code the car did indeed go through engineering.

__________________
Some guys they just give up living
And start dying little by little, piece by piece,
Some guys come home from work and wash up,
And go racin' in the street.


Bruce Springsteen - Racing In The Street - 1978
  #18  
Old 07-24-2012, 02:14 PM
Lloyd-TX's Avatar
Lloyd-TX Lloyd-TX is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bellaire (HO-uston), Texas
Posts: 9,012
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boss View Post
With the 997 code the car did indeed go through engineering.
Thanks for that tid-bit, Chris. More proof this is no run-of-the-mill T/A . . .

__________________
Regards,
"455HO" Lloyd


2008 GMC Sierra Denali 2WD Crew, L92 6L80E, Silver w/ Ebony guts, 14.26 @ 98
  #19  
Old 07-24-2012, 02:17 PM
RicksGTO's Avatar
RicksGTO RicksGTO is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Colleyville, Texas
Posts: 3,486
Default

man, great detective work there to both the Rotella's!! I'm guessing the sun is coming up in a few hours and it will be a little brighter today down under for the owner! It will be interesting to see if the SD engine is somehow still in the car and would engineering have bothered to put a matching VIN on it?

__________________
'72 Formula 455HO TH400, Revere Silver, black deluxe
'74 Trans Am SD 4 speed, Admiralty Blue, blue deluxe
  #20  
Old 07-24-2012, 04:27 PM
Brad Pringle's Avatar
Brad Pringle Brad Pringle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wellston, MI
Posts: 209
Default Hey Lloyd

Can you tell me what month and yr the article on the test car was published. I would like to buy it. Thank You Brad

__________________
Brad Pringle
Wellston, Michigan

1973 SD 455 TA Auto
1974 SD455 TA 4 Spd
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:33 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017