[PMD1969]

This subject has reared its head again so I have to ask the experts what to do.

We have three cars and one motorcycle. The ages are 69/99/99/02. None of them have ever had any updates to their fuel systems (pumps/hoses/rubber products) during their lives.

Should I be concerned about the newer vehicles? Are there GM stamped restoration products available on the market?

If I have to do it I would like to try and keep my attempts down to a minimum.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by PMD1969

Should I be concerned about the newer vehicles?

No.

[mikeb]

I would think that on the 69 the rubber hose that connects the gas tank to the gas line in the back is on borrowed time if it's an original. In fact, i'd spend an afternoon and replace all of the rubber lines. No sense in risking a gas leak and a possible fire.

[Lightfoot]

This brings to mind something I have been wondering about.
Is ethanol detramental to in-tank electric fuel pumps?
I just had to replace the pump in my '89 Buick, which had been previously replaced back in 2008 (aprox).

[sonjaab]

I haven't had any issues with our 10% E blend gas in any of my fleet
that I use daily. BUT my 72 Pontiac or my Triumph m/c that see limited Sunday
summer use I have found a local gas station that has 91 octane premium
with NO ethanol and I use that along with a dose of Sta-bil to keep from
gumming up the fuel system works.
Same with my lawn equipment as I note the gum up/lousy running stories
on many threads from running the E-blend stuff.......................

[MikeNoun]

We have nothing but ethanol around here, you can't buy real gas. I use Sta-Bil all the time now. I've had to replace several rubber parts every 2 or so for the last 10 years since Chicagoland decided to "go green".

4 short rubber lines by the fuel filters (one at the tank, one up front).

2 Holley fuel pressure regulator diaphragms.

1 return line hose where it connects to the tube in back.

All this and I get less gas mileage and less performance, thanks to the EPA.

Also experience run-on when shutting the car off, unless I use some Torco octane booster (the good stuff, not the off-the-shelf stuff).

Gas gets worse, prices get higher.

The New America. Less Hope, More Change.

[70 bird]

We have had e10 around here for years and I have been a mechanic for 25 years. I dont think ethanol destroys everything it comes in contact with, not at a 10% mix. I think most of the old hoses being destroyed are older than dirt anyhow and just need to be replaced because of age. jmo.

[PMD1969]

Maybe I have been lucky since I never drive the car and always use Stabil in the gas. I use Stabil in ALL of the small engines we have at the house but still have thrown way two weed eaters in the last four years.

The 69 gets Shell premium fuel, Stabil and Lucas Octane booster. I guess I could start to look around for a place that sells better booster but (Torco) they are hard to find in the Dallas area.

My 69 still has the OE rubber gas lines, fuel pump and the carb has not been rebuilt for over 20 years.

[MikeNoun]

You have to experience these "special blends" that big cities and their suburbs have to endure. Chicago has the highest gas prices in the nation because of the "special blends", and it destroys rubber fuel lines.

And yes, ethanol DOES destroy rubber, it's a known fact.

From the Ethanol.In website, which promotes the use of ethanol fuel:

Ethanol can be used by the carburetor and the engines can work with ethanol. You should know that ethanol has an octane rating of 104-105 this means you can easily use it in street car application. All is great if you have an ethanol compatible car.

If you do have one, then two problems appear: the gas tank and the fuel lines. Ethanol absorbs water easily and this means you can see water build up in the tank. Alcohol also eats rubber and many fuel lines are made of basic rubber hoses. The lines will crack if you use ethanol. But you can change the plastic hoses and replace them with compatible ones. It is very easy to do.

[PonchoV8]

There are a couple of stations around with 100% gas. It's worth it to find them. I get noticeably higher mpg using real gas. I'm told one station will never had E10 because of it's tanks. Supposedly they are not level? Why would that matter?

[Amigo-2k]

Here is a website that lists stations that sell ethanol free gas:


http://pure-gas.org/

[MikeNoun]

Yes, and there's no ethanol-free stations around me for 100 miles.

I use Torco Accelerator, which works fantastic, and Sta-Bil.

[fyrffytr1]

I think there is a fuel hose out called "Barrier" or something along that line that is Ethanol resistant. I'll check the store in the morning to see what it is really called.

[PMD1969]

Nice article but not the products I am looking for an original restoration though.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...s/viewall.html

ETA: THis link has some regular looking and rated auto fuel line for E85 fuels.

GoodYear http://www.goodyearep.com/ProductsDetail.aspx?id=10526

[Richman]

Originally Posted by 70 bird

We have had e10 around here for years and I have been a mechanic for 25 years. I dont think ethanol destroys everything it comes in contact with, not at a 10% mix. I think most of the old hoses being destroyed are older than dirt anyhow and just need to be replaced because of age. jmo.

X 2

[Catbird67]

Originally Posted by MikeNoun

Yes, and there's no ethanol-free stations around me for 100 miles.

I use Torco Accelerator, which works fantastic, and Sta-Bil.

actually its 150 miles around Chicago , when I delivered Gas , there is a EPA Map in the terminals that show where you have to deliver oxygenated/Reform gas to. and when you punch the buyer or stations load number in the computer automatically mixes it so there is no way around it , some companies in Wisconsin got into trouble because they where not using the fill point mix system and were loading one tank with ethanol and the other with gas and not getting the mixtures correct and in cold weather it was making cars hard to start , and ethanol isn't no where as corrosive and damaging as methanol ( which they used prior to ethanol in the 80's ) which is very alkalinic due to the caustic they use in the process of making it ( methane )and sometimes you would have to incorperate ammonia to keep it in suspension . and all the ethanol is filtered and stored in nitrogen buffed tanks to lower the water asorbsion and in the Chicago area we use so much ethanol that its always used in 2-3 days of it being delivered ,
for a classic car, I try to keep the tank as low as possible if I use e-10 grades or use BP gold as its alcohol free ( they use more oxygen bearing aromatics ) , but ethanol is the least of your worries as they use toluene and xylene in the blends up to 10 % each and that loves eating up rubber . you should replace your hoses with newer viton or buna n hoses , as they are more resistant to the chemicals and air pollutants . and most cars built after 1985 have these hoses in them .

[MikeNoun]

Filling up the station tanks is a problem for BP. They just had another issue where tankers filled up the tanks with bad blends. They blamed it on an Indiana refinery, but hundreds, if not thousands of cars were affected.

Back around 2003, BP tankers in this area accidentally filled regular tanks with diesel. Thousands of cars were affected, including a friend of mine who had a Mitsubishi Eclipse. He said the dealer did over $1000 worth of replacement work (injectors, tank, etc), all paid for by BP.

Well, I shouldn't say "all paid for", as we, the taxpayers, flip the bill when something happens to a refinery, oil rig, or when there's a drought and the corn dies.

BP Ultimate used to be the only fuel around here that was pure gas, but those days are long gone (at least 10 years ago), and now every station within 100-150 miles of us is E10 minimum.

[fyrffytr1]

I went by the store this morning to check on the fuel line. It's is called "Barricade" and is made by or for Gates. You can get it in carb or fuel injector rating. We carry 5/16th" and 1/4" but other sizes may be available. It is made for ethanol fuel systems.

[Catbird67]

Gold was non alcohol 3 years ago when I hauled it last , I has a certificate of analyse for it when I delivered it to a race fuel blender ,and it had its own spill pipe at the racks so it couldn't be cross contaminated , there is a simple test to see if it contains alcohol , just google it . I tried to look up the MSd for it but there product MSd is non specific on products


I know about the BP refinery Problem I am from the area , and several of my freinds do contract hauls for them , it was a internal QA problem not a carrier problem , not just BP stations were effected there where several off brand ones too

[PMD1969]

Originally Posted by fyrffytr1

I went by the store this morning to check on the fuel line. It's is called "Barricade" and is made by or for Gates. You can get it in carb or fuel injector rating. We carry 5/16th" and 1/4" but other sizes may be available. It is made for ethanol fuel systems.

Thanks for the info!

One thing that the wife reminded me was that our Toro mower (07) and Murray mower (00) both had MASSIVE fuel hose meltdowns where the fuel lines disintegrated and poured all of the fuel out of the tanks. I bought fuel line at Auto Zone and replaced them without even checking to see if they were newly rated.

My guess is that the OE's were cheap Chicom stuff.

Now I am looking for a rebuild kit for a fuel pump and carb kits and pumps that will be rated for this.

THing is that the 69 hasn't leaked a drop EVER