[b-man]

Questions for original 1964 & 1965 GTO owners, or second owners of these cars when nearly new:

Were you satisfied with the performance of your car in stock condition?

What kind of 1/4 mile times and MPH did the car run if you took it to the track?

1964 Owners: Did the original 524009 cam (same grind as the 9779067) give satisfying performance or did you quickly look to upgrade it?

1965 Owners: Same question as above, 4-barrel/067 cam and Tri-Power/068 cam. Did it perform well as equipped or did you want swap it out as soon as possible?

What were the first modifications you made for enhanced performance, if any?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[65Mark]

Although I don't own one now I have owned quite a few 64's in the past. These were just a few years old at the time and bone stock. As far as being satisfied at the time, let me put it this way, I never lost a street race. I was always satisfied beating all the Chevys, Fords, and Mopars. Of course I always wanted more power but it was hard enough keeping tires on them. All the automatics I changed to 4 speeds, automatics just weren't cool enough.

[Dick Boneske]

When my '64 was new, with 3.90 gears and Muncie wide ratio, Carter AFB, it ran 14.08@100.00 mph at Great Lakes Dragaway, Union Grove, Wisconsin with no mods other than Hoosier recap 7" slicks. I was more than satisfied!! But, as always happens, I wanted to go faster.

In early 1965, after adding a '62 Tripower (with Ansen BALL BEARING LINKAGE), 068 cam, Hooker 3-tube headers, distributor advance curve tweaks (12 degrees initial, 34 total at 2300 rpm, no vacuum advance), Airlift bag in right rear spring, M&H 7" slicks, it ran a best of 13.29 @ 109.75 mph.

There was nothing on the street's of Milwaukee that beat me except a stranger with a MGA with small block Chev. This MG was behind me at a stoplight. I heard the V8 lumpy idle behind me. I clutched off hard, and shifted like I would at the drag strip. He drove around me as I shoved the shifter to third gear. A friend with a '64 Impala, 300 HP 327 ran really close to my GTO after he added a 350 HP hydraulic cam--the only mod to that car. Another friend with a '65 Ford Fairlane with the 271 HP 289 with 5.14 gears could beat me on the street in first gear, but I always went past him in second gear--A LOT of smoke from those skinny street tires on both cars.

Nearly all the GTO's at that time had 3.55 or 3.23 gears so they were no threat to mine on the street or at the drag strip.

[Tom Vaught]

My 64 GTO always had rear axle issues (10 bolt 3.90 gear ratios) with a decent slick on the car. 150 miles to one track and over 100 miles to the other track so did the blacktop racing deal put on by our local sheriff (once a month). He was from California and was heavy into the Hot Rod scene before he took the job in our state.
So I had no actual track times with the car early on.

389 Engine was not stock when I got it from the Pontiac Zone Office. That was apparent with the special factory Mechanical Linkage, the 3.90 gear set, and the 9770543 camshaft I found in the block when I rebuilt the engine some years later. (64 421 HO camshaft).

Best the car even ran with a well built up 389 +.060" "400" engine was 11.55 at 117 mph. (455 SD rods, RA-V 400 crankshaft, worked over heads, 4 bbl intake and Holley, DNE 5 speed, 9" tire, Comp Cams 255/260 @ .050" .660 lift camshaft, 11.5-1 compression).

Tom Vaught

[Old Man Taylor]

The biggest issue with the car in stock condition was the red-line tires. They were terrible for traction. I only ran the car stock at two tracks: San Fernando; and Lions. SF did not have good air. It was at about 900-1000' elevation, and the Valley was always pretty warm. The best it ran with stock tires was 14.90 at about 96. I borrowed some cheater slicks and it ran 14.34 at 97. I then raced at Lions - no other changes to the car. It ran a best of 13.70 at 101.12. I recently made a Lobby post showing some of the Lions trophies I found last week. My car had a posi with 3.23 gears, a 4 speed and tri-power.

[NYGTO]

I'm enjoying this thread, it's great to hear it from the owners actual experiences.

[pfilean]

I certainly agree with Old Man Taylor about the red lines. Mine were UniRoyal. Why they ever started calling them "Tiger Paws" is beyond me. They would make smoke just about anytime at any speed in any gear. Didn't last long.

Back in summer 64 running a 4bbl-4sp conv. with stock 3.23 posi, recap cheaters, and dumps under the stock manifolds I was usually in the low to mid 15's at Dragway 42 in Ohio. Did once break into the high 14's. Great car and I loved it.

Did once see a guy show up in a tri power 4sp htp. with his buddy and their girlfriends. His may have had the 3.55 gear but really did look stock. He checked in popped his hub caps and ran the first round in the upper 13's. Put his caps back on and left. I guess he just wanted to know. If he had stayed he may have had a trophy. Unless the guy with the 61 409 and a 4.56 rear end was there that day. He usually got the trophy. I did beat him once but only because he red lighted. Hell - he was usually looking for second gear before he went 60 feet.

[geeteeohguy]

I agree! Keep the good stuff coming. Nothing better than first hand experience and accounts when these cars were new or near new!!

[Keith Seymore]

I honestly don't recall any factory stock times. I'd be surprised if the car ever made a pass in factory stock trim.

I do know best ET for the car was a 12.91, with the usual "super tune" package on it (thin head gaskets, shimmed valve springs, reworked distributor, reworked carbs, 7" slicks). Was originally equipped as a 389 tripower 4 speed, 3.90 gears, manual steering manual brakes.

K

[b-man]

Originally Posted by Dick Boneske

When my '64 was new, with 3.90 gears and Muncie wide ratio, Carter AFB, it ran 14.08@100.00 mph at Great Lakes Dragaway, Union Grove, Wisconsin with no mods other than Hoosier recap 7" slicks. I was more than satisfied!

Great factory -stock performance, with nothing but good tires added.

No exhaust mods? Still running log manifolds and factory duals? Factory vacuum-operated secondary carbs?

Originally Posted by Old Man Taylor

The biggest issue with the car in stock condition was the red-line tires. They were terrible for traction. I only ran the car stock at two tracks: San Fernando; and Lions. SF did not have good air. It was at about 900-1000' elevation, and the Valley was always pretty warm. The best it ran with stock tires was 14.90 at about 96. I borrowed some cheater slicks and it ran 14.34 at 97. I then raced at Lions - no other changes to the car. It ran a best of 13.70 at 101.12. I recently made a Lobby post showing some of the Lions trophies I found last week. My car had a posi with 3.23 gears, a 4 speed and tri-power.

Wow, 13.70 @ 101.12 at Lions, air quality at "the beach" was legendary and likely the best of any drag strip in existence then or now. Amazing ET for a 3.23 rear, I guess these cars didn't benefit as much as you'd think from a steeper 3.90 gear.

No exhaust mods? Still running log manifolds and factory duals? Factory vacuum-operated secondary carbs?

I'm amazed that both of these cars managed to run low-low 14s and high 13s with the original 009 cam and stock exhaust systems.

Doesn't hurt having good drivers behind the wheel either.

[NYGTO]

Pardon the thread drift by one year, thanks. About 20 years ago I ran my 65 automatic to a best of 14.07 at Atco in good air. The car was (and still is stock) but it did have M&H cheater slicks. Using a shorter tire helped to enhance the relatively tall standard ratio of 3:23.

At Musclepalooza last year it ran a string of 14:10's @ 98 on a warm spring day. My intent is to run high 13's this spring if I can get every detail sorted out. I've done everything possible but 13.99 here I come.

Check out this helpful calculator at Summit.

http://www.summitracing.com/expertad...tio-calculator

[b-man]

Originally Posted by NYGTO

Pardon the thread drift by one year, thanks. About 20 years ago I ran my 65 automatic to a best of 14.07 at Atco in good air. The car was (and still is stock) but it did have M&H cheater slicks. Using a shorter tire helped to enhance the relatively tall standard ratio of 3:23.

At Musclepalooza last year it ran a string of 14:10's @ 98 on a warm spring day. My intent is to run high 13's this spring if I can get every detail sorted out. I've done everything possible but 13.99 here I come.

Excellent 2-speedin' track times! The Super-Turbine 300 auto trans performs better than most people would expect.

1965 owners are welcome to participate (I edited the thread title and opening post), there are probably more of you guys here anyway.

[Dick Boneske]

Yes, my '64 ran 14.08@100.00 mph with no other changes than a pair of slicks. We may have dropped the headpipes, but the log manifolds were definitely in place. It was the 325 HP version, not Tripower, so there was not an issue with the vacuum Tripower linkage.

The '62 Tripower I soon found had already the "Ansen Ball Bearing Linkage" which is what most of us fitted our Tripowers with, being unaware that the dealers had a better choice with the 977060 (GTO) or 9777070 (big Pontiac) rod & tube kits-- Or the 1961 release of the rod & tube linkage. These over-the-counter kits work on nearly all Tripowers, manual or automatic without the undue strain the Ansen linkage puts on the center carb shaft.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by b-man

1965 owners are welcome to participate (I edited the thread title and opening post), there are probably more of you guys here anyway.

LOL!

I know our '65 never made a bone-stock pass; it was torn down within 15 minutes of hitting the driveway and prepped for B/Stock while the rest of the corporation languished during the strike.

First pass with the super tune (slicks, headers, thin gaskets, shimmed valvesprings) was a 12.90 out of the box; best in B/Stock was 12.40.

Best ever was 12.22 in B/Modified Production trim (larger slicks, newer heads and tripower, ram air pan) which is how it sits today.

K

[NYGTO]

That's a missle! Could you imagine getting into a new car and having that much power? Gotta love it.

Great picture too.

[NYGTO]

I reviewed my 1965 NHRA rulebook to double check I'm in line and nostalgically correct.

FYI - headers are permitted and can be run open with 3.5 inch max cutouts but a full exhaust is required. No mag wheels (Centerlines would be a big help but a nostalgia killer) Tires have size limitations but there's plenty of footprint for each tire size (2 groove minimum). Power steering belt can be removed but all other belts must remain fully functional.

No helmets or rollbars and wndow up.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Dick Boneske

The '62 Tripower I soon found had already the "Ansen Ball Bearing Linkage" which is what most of us fitted our Tripowers with, being unaware that the dealers had a better choice with the 977060 (GTO) or 9777070 (big Pontiac) rod & tube kits-- Or the 1961 release of the rod & tube linkage. These over-the-counter kits work on nearly all Tripowers, manual or automatic without the undue strain the Ansen linkage puts on the center carb shaft.

Tom Vaught

[b-man]

A quote from Pete McCarthy in the book 'PONTIAC Racer's and High Performance Handbook' by John Angeles and Pete McCarthy, describing his Tri-Power 4-speed 3.90 geared 1964 GTO:

"When I took delivery of mine in April of '64, I put Doug's Headers on ti, had it dyno-tuned, slipped a pair of 7" Casler slicks on the rear and drove it 30 miles to Fontana Raceway. The very first pass was a 13.85 at 105.38. By the end of the day , it was running 13.60s at 106+. No wonder it was such a sensation. Just for good measure I stomped on a new '64 Vette fuelie with 4.11 gears, on the way home. By September, the Goat was turning 12.90s at 108+ with a stock short block!"

Simply amazing what these cars were capable of with nothing more than exhaust enhancements, good rear tires and professional tuning.

I wish Pete was a poster on this site, oh the stories he could tell.

[Old Man Taylor]

Originally Posted by b-man

Great factory -stock performance, with nothing but good tires added.

No exhaust mods? Still running log manifolds and factory duals? Factory vacuum-operated secondary carbs?

Wow, 13.70 @ 101.12 at Lions, air quality at "the beach" was legendary and likely the best of any drag strip in existence then or now. Amazing ET for a 3.23 rear, I guess these cars didn't benefit as much as you'd think from a steeper 3.90 gear.

No exhaust mods? Still running log manifolds and factory duals? Factory vacuum-operated secondary carbs?

I'm amazed that both of these cars managed to run low-low 14s and high 13s with the original 009 cam and stock exhaust systems.

Doesn't hurt having good drivers behind the wheel either.

The only thing non-stock was that I was running "cut-outs" to bypass the mufflers. The tires were 5" cheater slicks that lasted 20,000 miles on the street. It still had the vacuum linkage. The car had more potential as I couldn't get it to hook up at the launch. The vacuum linkage made it very tough. I would feather the throttle on the launch to try to get it to hook up. If it hooked it would be a good run. If not I would more than likely float the valves as the engine would rev so quickly. With the vacuum linkage the end carbs were either fully open or full shut due to the wheel speed at launch.

[Old Man Taylor]

Originally Posted by b-man

A quote from Pete McCarthy in the book 'PONTIAC Racer's and High Performance Handbook' by John Angeles and Pete McCarthy, describing his Tri-Power 4-speed 3.90 geared 1964 GTO:

"When I took delivery of mine in April of '64, I put Doug's Headers on ti, had it dyno-tuned, slipped a pair of 7" Casler slicks on the rear and drove it 30 miles to Fontana Raceway. The very first pass was a 13.85 at 105.38. By the end of the day , it was running 13.60s at 106+. No wonder it was such a sensation. Just for good measure I stomped on a new '64 Vette fuelie with 4.11 gears, on the way home. By September, the Goat was turning 12.90s at 108+ with a stock short block!"

Simply amazing what these cars were capable of with nothing more than exhaust enhancements, good rear tires and professional tuning.

I wish Pete was a poster on this site, oh the stories he could tell.

I was an avid reader of Drag News in those days. A few weeks before I took my car back out to Lions, I read about Pete running 12.86 at Bee Line in Arizona with a 4 barrel. When I showed up at the track he had his '64 there. I figured I was OK as he was in Formula 6 with a 4 barrel, and I was in Formula 2 with a tri-power. When I went to look at his car it had a tri-power on it. They decided to try that and see how it performed. I knew I couldn't run even close to his car, so I corked it up so that all I had to do to drive home was put the hub caps back on. It turned out that he broke, so I ended up winning that day after all. I tried to get some info out of him about what he had done to the car. All he would admit to was running an experimental Pontiac cam shaft. ANY cam was allowable in AHRA. In those days the "stock" class racers were pretty tight lipped.