[Transporter]

Couple of questions that I have been thinking about, just looking for others input.


I have started to tear down the 4 cyl. out of my 63 cp, I want this car to be able to be reliably driven anywhere, so concerning the ignition system, has anyone tried to convert an HEI setup to fit the four?

Also, this is the later "thinwall" block, how far can it be bored, I have a perfect broken set of liteweight aftermarket rods and .030 over 400 custom Ross pistons, any way to stuff these in this block?

Thanks Stan

[63Banshee]

You can probably get away with .090" over, but I sonic check anything over .060" to be sure of what I'm getting into (core shift, sandy iron, etc). The earlier blocks are good to 1/8" in a lot of cases. The v8 dizzy will work. Ground unused wires to engine to prevent x-fire. 400 parts will drop right in with use of a 3.75 crank. That is to say, you run into the need for major block mods when stroking a 4 cyl as apposed to v8 blocks.

If you change your mind on using those parts, let me know. I'm machining another street 4 cyl this month and plan on light components, but have not yet purchased parts.

[Transporter]

Originally Posted by 63Banshee

You can probably get away with .090" over, but I sonic check anything over .060" to be sure of what I'm getting into (core shift, sandy iron, etc). The earlier blocks are good to 1/8" in a lot of cases. The v8 dizzy will work. Ground unused wires to engine to prevent x-fire. 400 parts will drop right in with use of a 3.75 crank. That is to say, you run into the need for major block mods when stroking a 4 cyl as apposed to v8 blocks.

If you change your mind on using those parts, let me know. I'm machining another street 4 cyl this month and plan on light components, but have not yet purchased parts.

Hey Dave, what is the different in the blocks, is it cyl. liners that are thinner or the bottom cross ribs like on a 557
On the cap I had thought about drilling out the posts not used and just siliconing the blank holes shut?

Timing chain, OR gears?

[SD421]

Originally Posted by Transporter

Couple of questions that I have been thinking about, just looking for others input.


I have started to tear down the 4 cyl. out of my 63 cp, I want this car to be able to be reliably driven anywhere, so concerning the ignition system, has anyone tried to convert an HEI setup to fit the four?
Thanks Stan

Stan,

When I had my 1962 LeMans I purchased a Pertronix Ignitor #1144A that fit under the stock cap. No more points to adjust, was able to use the stock distributor and worked great.

BE aware that there were two types of distributor caps the one that looks like the regular "V-8" cap & then a smaller cap. They sell both kits & I cannot recall if the part# above is for the regular "V-8" cap.

The other thing I did was to contact M.A.D. near Bakersfield,CA and purchase one of his electrical start'em up kits which includes means to hook up a remote starter solenoid plus other cool GM kits to solve our problems.

Here's the link to M.A.D.. http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml

Mark was really helpful. The Pertronix was bought from the local speed shop.

(I just noticed on his website under the catalog link that he does sell a HEI wiring kit.)

-Don

[Transporter]

Thanks Don, appreciate the info.

Stan

[63Banshee]

Originally Posted by Transporter

Hey Dave, what is the different in the blocks, is it cyl. liners that are thinner or the bottom cross ribs like on a 557
On the cap I had thought about drilling out the posts not used and just siliconing the blank holes shut?

Timing chain, OR gears?

I haven't yet compiled differences in all my blocks, which range from 61 to 63, but they are throughout the casting. Deck, cyl walls and I suspect ribs.

I ground the wires to take away any variable (electron path is the same with or without a plug). By skipping dizzy posts you could run into x-fire depending on conditions.

Second order inertia forces cause harmonics in these engines too great for timing gears in a street engine. Only cure for this is dual balance shafts, which isn't worth the time, effort or money. In a street engine I'd use a chain with tensioner for every 75k miles or chain only (at your own risk) for 25k miles. I'll post some info on this latest engine build of mine that you and others might find very interesting. It's a precursor to my race engine build --

[Bill Hanlon]

Could a guy grind off (hopefully the right) 4 "arms" from whatever you call the 8 armed piece that spins inside the pickup?

[63Banshee]

If that guy found it easier and wanted to permanently turn a V8 dizzy into a 4 cyl dizzy, yes.

[marks73ta]

I wonder how a belt drive timing set would work with these harmonics? I wonder if a belt would survive inside a timing cover if a person could have a set of crank/cam pulleys made??? And find an appropriate belt of course. I don't think it would be hard to have a set of gears/pulleys machined. BOP sells V8 a belt drive set up. But it is expensive and lots of fabrication to use. If you could just use one of their belts then have gears made--unless--the BOP gears would fit a timing cover--HHMMMMM. Maybe I'll drop them an E-Mail.

Mark L

[marks73ta]

I shot off a request for information to BOP. This is what I asked.

Hello. I’ve been contemplating building a 61-63 Pontiac 4 cylinder (half of a 389) and was thinking about the harmonics that these things generate. The factory used a true roller chain and a slider tensioning system. I was wondering if your timing belt could be used. The questions I have are:
1. Can the timing belt survive within the hostile environment inside of a timing cover?
2. Will a set of your timing gears (pulleys) fit within the confines of a timing cover?
3. Would you sell just the gears (pulleys), belt , and the roller idler separate from a full system?
4. Do you think the belt would survive the harmonics encountered?

Thank you for any info you can give me concerning this idea. Please be as blunt as you need incase this is a bad idea.


Mark L

[63Banshee]

The BOP belt drive would work, but I assumed we were talking street solutions here. I never asked BOP Eng if it would work inside a cover. I doubt it would fit.

[marks73ta]

Ho K. Got an answer form BOP:

Mark,

1. Yes, we have had several customers use the belt inside a timing cover, It can run wet or dry.

2. They will fit with modification to the cover. The water pump cavity must be moved upward and rewelded. The idler would need a mounting location. If you used the alum plate under the cover with cut out mod that would work or make a mod to the block to mount.

3. Yes we would credit for parts not needed. (Really that may on;y be the plate)

4. We have had several customers run this setup so it has survived the harmonics.

Thank you,
Wade Congdon
BOP Engineering
N3651 Schmidt Rd.
Jefferson, WI 53549
Phone: 920-674-6058
Fax : 920-674-6059
www.bopengineering.com


Looks doable. Makes me want to do some thinking.

Mark L

[Transporter]

Interesting info, thanks for the legwork Mark. Just curious if the water pump cavity would still have to be reworked, as the Indy 4 cover is quite a bit different than a later model cover, since he alluded to moving the "plate".















Stan

[marks73ta]

I plan to use a R.A.R.E. front cover so that eliminates the pump cavity.



Mark L

[63Banshee]

That would do it.

[Transporter]

Originally Posted by marks73ta

I plan to use a R.A.R.E. front cover so that eliminates the pump cavity.



Mark L

Great idea Mark,,,,, you da man!

[63Banshee]

I'm doing a lot of 4 cyl builds lately and I've considered using the BOP belt for only 1 of them, a monster build still in R&D. Unless for a race engine, 1200 bucks is better spent on other things, no?

[Transporter]

Originally Posted by 63Banshee

I'm doing a lot of 4 cyl builds lately and I've considered using the BOP belt for only 1 of them, a monster build still in R&D. Unless for a race engine, 1200 bucks is better spent on other things, no?

It would be more than 1200.00 if you factor in the rare cover 269.00 plus a chevy water pump, 50.00

[63Banshee]

What ever it is now, way overkill unless for a serious plant.

[marks73ta]

I'm just wondering if a machinist could make a set of gears a lot cheaper or if I could buy just the gears and belt from BOP? Or, since I have never actually used or touched the BOP belt system, is there something there that I don't know about? I forgot to mention the idler, I think that could be bolted directly to the block under the cover--IF--it fits. I just like thinking outside the box--or norm ---in this case.

Mark L