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Old 11-22-2015, 11:29 AM
edvisme edvisme is offline
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Default 700R4 Transmission into a 70 firebird.

I have made some adjustments in my life to where I am able to keep the car, for now at least. Along with that I have managed to come up with some more $. My 70 is far from being an "original" and it probably will never be.
Anyway, The car is a lot of fun to drive and I enjoy driving it. However, when I get on the interstate and keep up with traffic the engine rps are over 3000 (3200 rpm at 80mph.
So, I believe it is time to do an overdrive transmission upgrade.
Has anyone here done this conversion to their Firebird? How did the job work out? what all did you need to make it work? I know I will need the adapter plate to marry the transmission and engine together. What else will I need to do/purchase to make this work? Thank you for your input.

  #2  
Old 11-22-2015, 11:44 AM
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ponyakr ponyakr is offline
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Some consider the 200-4R a better choice, for a number of reasons. If you have not made a final decision, it may be a good idea to do some more research on the subject, before choosing which way to go.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...4%20vs%20700r4

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ht=2004r+700r4

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ht=2004r+700r4


"...I know I will need the adapter plate to marry the transmission and engine together..."

The 200-4R will bolt up without an adapter.

TV cable adjustment is critical with these trannies.

http://www.cpttransmission.com/tech_tvcable.htm


Last edited by ponyakr; 11-22-2015 at 12:07 PM.
  #3  
Old 11-22-2015, 01:30 PM
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I'm interested in the swap, too. Gramma's Firebird has a 455, a turbo 350 and 3.42s and it turns 2800 rpm at 60. It is crying for another grear.

  #4  
Old 11-22-2015, 03:05 PM
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Formulabruce Formulabruce is offline
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>> I have a 3.42:1 REAR >> I run a stage 3 "Raptor" . It can be a little clunky downshifting , but Its rebuilt for 1 wire operation, and that , for me , is the th400 wire for the lock up. I have mine set to shift up quick and it can lock up at 40 if I let it, but I can also get 17 mpg. TH200 4R is fairly easy, NO adapter plate, Bolt in, ( BOP bell housing) and cheapest and easiest way to go...Higher OD than a 700, or 4L80.
Here is what I have :
1. Shifter is available at parts place as a repop now big $$ ( Dual gate Hurst)
1.A, The shifter ball is a Ames only part, made in the USA, $30.00 ( Arrowhead on a bigger ball)
2. I used a "kit" from a place called "The Shiftworks" to convert the top( OD) plate and the detent on the shifter, which was quick drill out and bolt on. Top took some alignment with the clear lexan over the indicator.
3. The cross member came from "Bowtie Overdrives", bolt in, but it was very very close to my Gardner factory HO exhaust on the DS. Required loosen exhaust and slight move, and its fine now.
4. Cable <> Stock.
5. Drive shaft, same as TH350
6. I use a "1 wire" Stage 3 built 2004R, which on the 4 pin connector only has one wire, for the lock up, I hooked that to the +12 for the TH400 kickdown. ( without any sort of switch, the lock up comes in very early, and mine does it in 3rd and 4th gear ( '89 TTA tranny) BUt you can downshift into 3rd around town and should be fine.
7. The backdrive. I run Stock R/A manifolds, and I had to heat and bend the backdrive about 8 times before I got it so it works pretty well. The 200 side shaft is back a bit from the TH350. Reverese lock out and reverse lights and neutral safety all work.
8. I run a adjustable length TV cable to the throttle side with an aftermarket bracket which has the throttle and the TV on it hooked to a 78 Cliff style rebuild Q jet.
9. 3.42 rear, 225/70/15 tires ( 26 tall) roughly 1,700 rpm at 75 mph ( 121 kph), and 2750 rpm at 105 mph ( 169 kph) on the flat.
Conclusion. Transmission install was all easy aside from the backdrive mod, and getting the TV cable adjusted correctly
The 2004R Tans will net you the Highest RWD OD ratio made for an automatic ( .67)
Its the ultimate cruiser.. Hope this helps, Bruce
EDIT: My Transmission was built into a "Raptor" Here> I run a stage 3.. http://transmissioncenter.net/200-4R.htm


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Last edited by Formulabruce; 11-22-2015 at 03:29 PM.
  #5  
Old 11-23-2015, 10:57 AM
edvisme edvisme is offline
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Thank you for the replies, folks. Years ago I had a 79 Camaro. I rebuilt that car from end to end, not quite as in depth as this Firebird. Anywho, I went with that 2004r transmission for it. I had nothing but problems with that transmission. I to remove the thing 2 different times and send it back to the builder because of weird shifting functions under full throttle. Both times they returned it to me and told me it was good to go. I put it back in and it still had some sort of weird shifting problem. So, my past experience with the 2004r is making me very gun shy of it. I have weighed the options of going either route and the 700r4 makes the most sense. I can buy the transmission locally with a 12/12000 warranty on it, the adapter plate, I have a spare cross member I can modify, I have a few drive shafts to choose from, install it and be done for 1400.00. As compared to doing the 2004r again I will be 2K with all of the parts. Talking to the transmission shops here they all say the 700r4 will be a much better transmission. I remember when I did the 2004r into the Camaro. I ordered that shift works kit. I still have the "shifter gate" piece that converts the stock shifter to a OD. I didn't use that shifter because I couldn't get it to work with the neutral safety and reverse lights.
I take it nobody here has done the 700r4 into their Firebird with a Pontiac power?

  #6  
Old 11-23-2015, 02:06 PM
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Formulabruce Formulabruce is offline
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The 700 is basically like a TH375 with overdrive. Less clutches and 350 output tail, vs a th400. There are many parts, like a 2004R , that need to be upgraded to run with some power, and if Not done will be a dud as these transmissions were designed for V-6 engines, small V-8's originally. I have run the 700, and as long as you run an external trans cooler, you can be fine, IF its been updated with performance parts. USED 700's from Firebirds are scrap metal to me, and wouldn't run one unless REMAN, or minimal, rebuilt. . Why?, because the 80's Firebirds had ZERO grille, and many had the lower air dam broken, and these transmissions got cooked.
Most transmission shops will defer to the 700 due to commonality with their market ( chevy guys)
The next gen 700 is the 4L60, which can be built with a manual valve body and eliminate the computer.
I would want to know what the 700 is rated for Power.. for 12 month warranty, and under 1500 bucks. I am not seeing red Eagle clutches, or other upgrades at this price. Rebuilt valve body and a Performance rebuild kit is going to run 700+ right there.
I guess it depends on what you use it for...But..
The benefits of replacing a 700R4 with a re-manufactured transmission over a rebuilt one includes the following: 1) They include modifications to make them last longer. 2) All the internal hard parts are re-machined to like-new specifications. 3) They come with a much longer warranty.
Good luck!

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Old 11-25-2015, 11:57 PM
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70f400 70f400 is offline
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http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=781680

Here is a link to the 700r4 going into my 70 firebird. We cut off the bellhousing and replaced it with a JW ultra bell BOP bolt pattern. Also I used the tail housing from a 86 caprice it puts the mount in the same spot as the th400.

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  #8  
Old 11-26-2015, 09:18 AM
edvisme edvisme is offline
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Cool! Thank you for posting up. This is some great info. I need to get one of those tail shafts now.
I also have a question about hooking up the TV cable. What bracket was used to make it work with the Q Jet carb?


Last edited by edvisme; 11-26-2015 at 09:26 AM.
  #9  
Old 11-26-2015, 09:46 AM
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I modified the TCI bracket. Hopefully get the motor in the car this weekend. I'll try and get a pick of the bracket before it goes in.

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  #10  
Old 12-18-2015, 09:57 PM
edvisme edvisme is offline
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Help! I have a issue with throttle and TV cable brackets. I have many different types of GM brackets and even bought one from summit that TCI makes that is suppose to work for the Rochester carb. Sure, this bracket will work, and so will a couple of the other ones I have here. BUT, problem is the Ram air, air cleaner sits down so low that the base of it hits the brackets.
Those that have done this conversion on their Firebird and used the Ram Air set up, what did you use to make the throttle and TV cables work?
I am thinking I may have to get creative here and cut and weld me up a special type of bracket.

  #11  
Old 12-18-2015, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edvisme View Post
Help! I have a issue with throttle and TV cable brackets. I have many different types of GM brackets and even bought one from summit that TCI makes that is suppose to work for the Rochester carb. Sure, this bracket will work, and so will a couple of the other ones I have here. BUT, problem is the Ram air, air cleaner sits down so low that the base of it hits the brackets.
Those that have done this conversion on their Firebird and used the Ram Air set up, what did you use to make the throttle and TV cables work?
I am thinking I may have to get creative here and cut and weld me up a special type of bracket.
I run a performer intake, ground the bracket mount bosses down over an inch for the throttle cable mount and the TV mount hooks to it. I use a 72 stock Q jet throttle bracket that Ames sells. Also run an adjustable length TV cable .

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Old 12-18-2015, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edvisme View Post
Help! I have a issue with throttle and TV cable brackets. I have many different types of GM brackets and even bought one from summit that TCI makes that is suppose to work for the Rochester carb. Sure, this bracket will work, and so will a couple of the other ones I have here. BUT, problem is the Ram air, air cleaner sits down so low that the base of it hits the brackets.
Those that have done this conversion on their Firebird and used the Ram Air set up, what did you use to make the throttle and TV cables work?
I am thinking I may have to get creative here and cut and weld me up a special type of bracket.
That s exactly what I did send me a pm and I can email you some pics of the one I made for my 71 HO intake

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1970 Firebird, 468, KRE 290 DPorts, 236/244 .615 lift HR, HO Intake, 77 Q-Jet, RA manifolds, 3.42 rear, 10" Contential, 700R4.
  #13  
Old 12-19-2015, 10:24 AM
edvisme edvisme is offline
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FormulaBruce, I will look into that bracket. I bought an OEM TV cable with hope of being able to use it. Years ago on a Camaro I built I put the 2004R in it and tried the adjustable TV cable and I wasn't tall that thrilled with it, mostly because of the looks of it lol. I will probably have to get one for this application.

70F400, PM sent with my contact info. Thank you!

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