[Carmine]

Hi everyone. I came across another car that has piqued my interest somewhat. It's on carsforsale.com stock #10124. I hope I got that right. It's a white 1971 GTO Judge clone. The advertisement claims it to be a real numbers matching GTO, but the previous owner cloned it into a Judge. It looks quite nice and appears that someone did a good job with the cloning process. Appears all the badges, emblems, decals and trim are there. I thought maybe a '71 Judge had a glove box emblem but I didn't see that. The car is in Clearwater, Florida. Cloning doesn't really affect me as long as I'm aware of it in the beginning. I sent the owner an email with a bunch of questions and I'm awaiting a reply. This is terrible, but I forget what the asking price is; maybe $32,000.00?? If someone has a moment and could take a peek at this car, I would appreciate it. Thank you in advance, Carmine.

[dxeven]

Here is a link to the car:

https://www.carsforsale.com/vehicle/details/22385091

[goatless]

I'm no expert on '71 Judges, but…
It doesn't look like a $32K car to me… at least from the pictures that are shown. Nothing close enough to see detail, and no under car shots.

Things I did notice- It's a sticker clone… is in no effort to actually clone a Judge. I think (could be wrong) all '71 Judges came with the 455 HO round port motor and Ram Air- not on this car.

The tail pipes and tips are funky and would need to be redone.
The carpet is stained/faded.

Ad says it has a 12 bolt. If were a Judge it would have had a 12 bolt behind that 455 HO, but since this is a 400 D-port car it would have had an 8.2. What else is not original?

Not a bad looking car, but I think the price is steep for a worn, base GTO that's been fluffed by a dealer.

[Judge273]

Would have a 455 HO with RA standard. Which triggers the 12 bolt rear too. Black out hood scoups with RA, and pan with snorkels to air cleaner to be a tribute Judge. Haha

Didn't put glovebox emblem either, and like it's been said. Added a wing and stickers to a 71.

PHS to see what options and all are real. Stickers and wings come off. Matching GTO is another thing.

If it was a 4 speed GTO with posi and hood tach. All nice sheetmetal, int,, matching and correct it could reach 30s. Maybe not this one? Missing the AC underhood, but has vent inside?

[West Coast GTO]

What Judge 273 said plus:
No in dash clock so probably no Rally gauges.
No PHS to compare original configuration with what is on there now.
No photo of the data plate to compare with existing car ( paint, vinyl top, etc)
No under car photo shots.
Fresh paint and decals at a distance can hide many defects.

[Eric71T37]

I like the white with stripes, and the blue interior makes it even better. The custom sport steering wheel and deluxe seat belts are nice options. The exhaust tips would drive me nuts.

The dash is all AC, but the evaporator and compressor are gone. Says it is a Miami car so probably did have AC originally.

[Carmine]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I do appreciate what you offer. I can see that it takes a lot to clone one properly. I think I'll stay away from cloned cars. Probably best to buy an original GTO and let it go at that. I sent the dealer an email 2 days ago and haven't heard anything yet. Apparently they are in no hurry to sell this car. I'm in no rush to buy it either. I think I'll walk away from this one. I'll keep looking until one jumps out at me. Many thanks, Carmine.

[Judge273]

Here's the real deal...pedigree and completeness is a huge bonus...

[Carmine]

Great looking car. Thanks, Carmine.

[Carmine]

Just a little follow up. Sometimes, I am torn between buying one already done and restoring another one myself. I know that you can't restore one for the cost of one already done up correctly. I've done several amateur restorations over the years including a Cadillac, several tri 5 Chevys, Impala SS's and GTO's. I still have some. I know the cost in doing these. It's not so much the money, but do I really want to do this again?? Do I have the energy?? Ambition? At times, I'm not sure. It would be nice to buy a well documented GTO that only needs some TLC, but is this the way I really want to go?? Or, should I buy an original in need of restoration?? I look in my Ames book and see so many parts that are available. Much more then were available in '81 when I did over my '67 GTO that I gave my son. I have to admit, it can be a dilemma for me. It certainly would be different to buy one that needs little to nothing. So the search continues. I'm certainly in no rush. Winter is coming here in the northeast, and we know what that means. But, if the right one jumps out at me, we just might have a deal. Will keep everyone posted, Carmine.

[1965gp]

I think you guys are being too hard on the white 71 in question- I've seen cars that needed a lot more work sell for $30k+.

It's a nice driver, needs a few things here and there but if it's rust free probably not a bad deal.

[bobslilgto]

Carmine, you and your son would look good in these.

[Carmine]

Originally Posted by bobslilgto

Carmine, you and your son would look good in these. Attachment 440050

They certainly are beautiful looking cars. I'd own them in a heart beat if possible. I love the color scheme/striping on them.

As for the white '71, as I previously mentioned, I don't mind cloning so much if I'm aware of it and know what to look for. As for GTO's, I'm not that experienced with them, therefore it might be best for me to stay away. Some of the members here pointed out various things missing or not correct. I think the missing a/c unit probably sunk it for me. It appears to be a nice car, but I would have to see it myself or have a trusted, knowledgeable person inspect it. I would have no interest in paying what they are asking. I would make what I consider a fair offer hoping not to offend them. But, this is probably all a moot point. I sent them questions on Monday and haven't heard anything back. A bad way to run a business, but so be it. Things happen for a reason. There are a lot more cars out there then I ever thought. Just finding the right one that appeals to me, Carmine.

[Carmine]

Originally Posted by bobslilgto

Carmine, you and your son would look good in these. Attachment 440050

Forgot to ask in my other thread, are they yours?? Are they original Judges?? Thanks, Carmine.

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by 1965gp

I think you guys are being too hard on the white 71 in question- I've seen cars that needed a lot more work sell for $30k+.

It's a nice driver, needs a few things here and there but if it's rust free probably not a bad deal.

too hard, seriously, just because there is a ton of puppymill thrown tigether junk out there on the checkerboard carlots, doesn't make any of it worth anywhere near their asking pricing.

[Carmine]

Speaking entirely for myself, what the value comes down to, is what the owner is willing to let the vehicle go for and what the buyer is willing to pay. I've seen some totally ridiculous prices on some makes/models and I wouldn't even consider making an offer. They might take offense to it and that's not what I would like. So, I just move on. In my opinion, some people are dreamers as to what they think their car is worth. And that's ok because it's their car. But, it certainly doesn't help with the sale. I don't look for a free lunch or low ball someone who might be borderline desperate. I have a decent idea of what a cars value is and what it is worth to me; what I'm willing to pay for it. Sometimes we are on the same page, other times close but no cigar. I have several older cars that I own and drive. Therefore, to purchase a GTO, is a want, not a need. Maybe that is why I'm so choosy; particular. I certainly would like to have another one, but I refuse to overpay. Funny thing, the more I research and look at different ones, I see some on the surface that appear to be a real good buy and wonder why?? Then I see those that are much more money for what appears to be much less car. Have to wonder about that also. Guess I'm thankful that I'm in no great rush. I can afford to pick and choose wisely. Winter is coming so I'll see where that takes me. Until then, I'll keep looking and running some ideas and cars by the fine members here. I'm also going to look on Amazon for a book or two about GTO's. I remember all those years ago before buying my '67, I bought a book by author Al Drake, "Big Little GTO Book". I'm sure there are others out there also, Carmine.

[bobslilgto]

Thanks Carmine, yes there real and had for a long time already. I think it's almost time to let them go and some other cars i have. Time for a conv. Judge

[Carmine]

Originally Posted by bobslilgto

Thanks Carmine, yes there real and had for a long time already. I think it's almost time to let them go and some other cars i have. Time for a conv. Judge

A convertible Judge. Wow. Did I read correctly somewhere that in 1971, they only made 25 convertible Judges and presently only 17 can be accounted for?? No one even wanted to venture a price for one of the survivors. Guess it goes back to what you are willing to pay, Carmine.

[West Coast GTO]

Carmine,
It looks like this is a company ( white judge clone) that has consigned an owners car rather than for sale directly by the owner. That is how I bought my current 71. I did not feel bad regarding my offering price and really wished that I started lower. The consignor runs you offer through to the seller and then responds yes or no. I do believe that I had to put down earnest money before my offer was tendered to the seller. Regardless; stipulate an inspection as a requirement.
My two cents.

Originally Posted by Carmine

They certainly are beautiful looking cars. I'd own them in a heart beat if possible. I love the color scheme/striping on them.

As for the white '71, as I previously mentioned, I don't mind cloning so much if I'm aware of it and know what to look for. As for GTO's, I'm not that experienced with them, therefore it might be best for me to stay away. Some of the members here pointed out various things missing or not correct. I think the missing a/c unit probably sunk it for me. It appears to be a nice car, but I would have to see it myself or have a trusted, knowledgeable person inspect it. I would have no interest in paying what they are asking. I would make what I consider a fair offer hoping not to offend them. But, this is probably all a moot point. I sent them questions on Monday and haven't heard anything back. A bad way to run a business, but so be it. Things happen for a reason. There are a lot more cars out there then I ever thought. Just finding the right one that appeals to me, Carmine.

[johnta1]

In tribute to Steve:

17 Judges