[gtofreek]

Just got done with a 422[389 + .037" x 4" stroke] street build with tri-power. Engine has 6X-8 heads, and a small hydraulic roller cam. Customer wanted a smooth idle, and good vacuum. Compression came in at 8.87:1. I did a mild bowl blend on the heads, and opened them up to 1.77" exhaust valves. We went with the Max Performance H.O. manifolds attached to 2.5" straight pipes. Dick Boneske from these boards restored the tri-power, and did a beautiful job on them. Heads flowed high 220's on the intake, and high 180's, to mid 190's on the exhaust, @ .550" lift. Cam was a Lunati Voodoo HR, 219/227 @ .050", on a 112° LSA, .515"/.530" lift with 1.5 Harland Sharp roller rockers. Engine made over 14" of vacuum at idle.

Started with 34° timing. Sounded pretty weak, and not happy. Only made 257 HP and 313 Ft. Lbs. torque. One look at the computer screen we can see the fuel consumption number was barely 100 #'s per hour at the high end. This thing isn't passing any fuel through it. A quick checkup on the engine revealed the secondaries weren't opening at all. Which is odd because when we hooked it up, we had full throttle from it. Now we don't. I re-adjusted the throttle cable, now it would open the secondaries.

Second pull was with 34° total timing, and it made 410 HP on this pull, and high 490's on torque.

Third pull we made with 36° total timing. It didn't like that as the A/F ratio got all jacked up, and it lost 10 HP, with a peak right at 400 HP.

Fourth pull we set the timing at 32° total, and it didn't like that either, as power dropped off even more, at 398 HP. We went back to 34°, and it went right back up to 414 HP @ 5200, and 5300 RPM, and 499 Ft. Lbs. @ 3500. A/F ratio tamed back down to a reasonable level. It made over 400 HP from 4700 -5700 RPM.

We ran it on 91 Octane pump gas.

[steve25]

Real great street motor there Paul!

What is amazing is that the motor never drops below 420 ft lbs from 2200 to 5200 rpm!

Even at 1900 rpm that things pumping out 400 ft lbs!!

Your using the heads real well also as it took 201 Intake cfm to make that 414 HP which means good velocity!

This level of torque ( due to velocity) and its 3200 rpm wide power band is what I get kicked in the the teeth for all the time on this site when I tell folks who are looking for a true street / strip motor that can run in the 12s with less than 3.55 gears!

Was this the 3 large 2bbl Manifold?

[PAUL K]

Nice!

[Cliff R]

Good numbers for the combination of parts and "small" cam being used. Goes to show how efficient the 4" stroke engines are and how they try to carry power higher up in the rpm range, and how a roller camshaft can make up some ground with smaller specs.

"lThis level of torque ( due to velocity) and its 3200 rpm wide power band is what I get kicked in the the teeth for all the time on this site when I tell folks who are looking for a true street / strip motor that can run in the 12s with less than 3.55 gears!"

I get a good bit of this "kicked in the teeth" deal, especially lately, but it comes from folks who have about as much real experience with these engines as I spent on the crapper last week, and most of, if not ALL of their information comes from "google" searches, NOT practical application......FWIW.....Cliff

[gtofreek]

It is the 65 manifold with the small center carb.

Originally Posted by steve25

Real great street motor there Paul!

What is amazing is that the motor never drops below 420 ft lbs from 2200 to 5200 rpm!

Even at 1900 rpm that things pumping out 400 ft lbs!!

Your using the heads real well also as it took 201 Intake cfm to make that 414 HP which means good velocity!

This level of torque ( due to velocity) and its 3200 rpm wide power band is what I get kicked in the the teeth for all the time on this site when I tell folks who are looking for a true street / strip motor that can run in the 12s with less than 3.55 gears!

Was this the 3 large 2bbl Manifold?

[steve25]

I am not sure how to take that Cliff, could you detail it more?

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

It is the 65 manifold with the small center carb.

Wow, that makes it all the more impressive!!!

[slowbird]

Is the water temp correct? If so why are you running it so hot?

[gtofreek]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Is the water temp correct? If so why are you running it so hot?

That was the very last pass, and was run from 3500 down to 1500 rpm. We made this pull just a couple minutes after the full pull we made right before, after the engine had cooled down to 170. No big deal. It needs to prove itself for hot summertime driving, right? You're just seeing the water temp after it came out of the engine, before running through the radiator. Water has to run about 20 feet before it goes through the radiator, and back to the engine.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by gtofreek

That was the very last pass, and was run from 3500 down to 1500 rpm. We made this pull just a couple minutes after the full pull we made right before, after the engine had cooled down to 170. No big deal. It needs to prove itself for hot summertime driving, right? You're just seeing the water temp after it came out of the engine, before running through the radiator. Water has to run about 20 feet before it goes through the radiator, and back to the engine.

Both sheets you posted show 200+°, you are leaving power on the table doing that. If it runs 200+ all the time in the car then a better cooling system needs to be worked out.

[steve25]

Heat in the cylinders= power.

[gtofreek]

Water heats up too fast. Would have to wait an hour between runs otherwise. The first pass was at 150, and it made less power than the last pass at 200+. Too hard to maintain at 180. The last pass is really loading the engine hard to take it down to 1500, so the heat builds quickly in the water. It never overheated or ran too hot to hurt anything. This is real world testing here! I'm looking more for dependability and ruggedness from my engines, than just the highest numbers I can get. It needs to spend it's life in a car, not on a dyno, or at the race track.

[slowbird]

Ive never had a problem keeping my engines 140 or way cooler on the dyno we go to. We can see 5-10hp gain going from a hot pull to cold a cold pull.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by steve25

Heat in the cylinders= power.

And that same heat is doing what to the temp in the intake ports?

[steve25]

I stated nothing about the good effect on power that running a cool Intake charge can bring with it , but walking that fine line between the best power made by heat in the cylinders and Intake charge temp is something I would only want to toy with in a controlled dyno situation for sure.
I think that in regards to strip usage that 180 is the best to shoot for as trying to keep the water temps less then 180 once your lucky enough to get into the round Robin phase is very difficult anywhere in the country during the Summer!

[ponjohn]

It'd be interesting to see what it would have made with headers.

As said, nice street motor with trips.

[gtofreek]

I admit, he could have a better cooling system on this dyno, but until we get ours up and running, this is what we have access to. This engine will be driven on the street in stop and go traffic. Durability and dependability is what is most important to me, and I'm sure, the customer. It's not a drag engine, and I'm not looking for bragging numbers. It is, what it is, that's it. Yeah, lets say it makes 420 HP at 140°, does it really matter? Especially when in real world service, it will see 140° for what, 30 seconds at a time? Those things don't mean anything to me. If it makes 414 HP at 220°, great. When in service, it'll probably be a little more. Still doesn't mean anything other than bragging rights, which has never meant much to me anyway. If I wanted bragging rights, I would have used a friction factor for a 700" Big Block!

[Cliff R]

"Heat in the cylinders= power."

+2

This is a street engine and thermal efficiency is your friend with these things. The ideal scenario is a hot engine and cool/dense incoming air mixture. Cold engines require more fuel and timing to do the same thing. You may see a tad bit more power running one cold on the dyno and throwing a lot of fuel and timing at it, but in actual use that scenario can not be duplicated.

The engine not only will be really not and well heat soaked in the vehicle, it needs to be for best efficiency and power output in a street driven scenario......Cliff

[Formulajones]

Awesome job Paul.

What was going on with the AFR with increased timing? I guess you didn't have time to fool with that? I would have liked to see what more timing did for the engine, given the proper AFR.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

". You may see a tad bit more power running one cold on the dyno and throwing a lot of fuel and timing at it, but in actual use that scenario can not be duplicated.

Exactly my thought. No sense in running it cold on the dyno and trying to squeeze every last drop of power out of it when it will never in it's lifetime see those conditions in a running car.