[convgto]

Fired my Len williams 461 stroker today and it went pretty/ real good. Fired right off, after 5 minutes into break in the corrugated chrome radiator hose started coming off also the temp gauge quit working, I tightened the hose and put on another gauge, fired right up again and finished out the breakin. Broke in with a 2 barrel, will be installing fitech next week. Really hot/ humid today, concerned with engine getting to hot, but it didn't, but I did. . During installing engine and accessories it was really hot so I built a 10x20x 7 feet high plastic room with ac, couldnt afford to cool whole garage, lol. Just for info I primed with a dewalt cordless hammer/ drill worked good.
I have seen questions about Len Williams here on the forum, I wanted to wait till at least my break in to comment, he was real good to work with, all on the phone, no email that I know of. He built it like I wanted with his advice, however I wanted a forged crank and main studs he said I didnt need it, but did it anyways. I would definitely use Len again and recommend him.
Thanks Len

[Hammertime Mike]

Congrats on the new motor !! It's always a nail biter on that initial start-up. Keep us informed on the fitech setup. I'm leaning that way for my week end cruiser.

[ponyakr]

I've caught some flack for recommending Len, without having bought from him. So, I'm very interested in your engine.

If you don't mind, I'd love to know EVERY detail about it--you know--block, crank, rods, pistons, cam, lifters, rockers, deck height, head details, etc, etc.

Would also like to know the price of engine, plus the total shipping cost, & method of shipping.

If for some reason you'd rather not post the price, I understand.

[PDC]

Great thread. Len gas such a good reputation. I love your AC solution! Well done!

[77 TRASHCAN]

Never heard or read one negative about Len Williams work. I have not used him either, whoopee.

Not surprised about no email, either. Tom Wilhite has nothing to do with computers, or vehicles with Diesel engines. He owns an auto repair shop...

Len's prices are tough to beat, especially when the workmanship is as good as his!

[ponyakr]

It just occurred to me that there might be a few here who are not familiar with the name Len Williams, and have never visited his web site. The site doesn't go into detail about all the different options & upgrades he can provide. It just shows a few basic builds, with prices. For details of your specific build you'll have to talk to him.

He built 2 engines for a guy who posts on the Firebird Nation site. The only negative thing he had to say was that Len was a little slow. But, since most of the top guys seem to have a waiting list, I suppose being a little slow is not much of a negative.

Anyhow, for those not familiar with Len, here's a link to his web site. Just go to the top of the page and click on one of the 5 engine descriptions, to see a few details of examples of what he can build.

http://lenwilliamsautomachine.com/Home.html

[1968GTO421]

ConvGTO, Thanks for your posting about your Len Williams engine. We've all heard he was a good builder but never knew anyone who had one of his. Thanks for posting all this.

If you can fill in Ponyakr's requested info, we'd all be appreciative.

[ftwmlp]

I too recently fired a Len Williams engine for the first time, albeit one that had set in my garage for many years due to my own lack of initiative.

I took Len a period correct 389 YS which was in pretty sad shape and asked him to re-build it based on the 400 package he advertises on his website. He did so over a 2 month time frame, included bore and hone with plate, a sleeve in the #2 cylinder, dished pistons, new main & rod bearings, Melling cam, Melling oil pump, competition valve job, and returned it to me looking like a brand new engine.

Even after setting a LONG time (I am ashamed to admit the actual time lapse) after priming the oiling system and turning it over a few times with Marvel Mystery oil in the cylinders it fired quickly and ran strong thru the cam breakin period. I breathed a sigh of relief and said a silent thank you to Len. Engine had NO leaks during breakin. I will be putting it back in the car in the next couple of weeks.
Mike Pearson

[1968GTO421]

Originally Posted by ponyakr

Would also like to know the price of engine, plus the total shipping cost, & method of shipping.

If for some reason you'd rather not post the price, I understand.

THis would be very helpful info to know, esp the shipping cost and method of shipping. Did Len arrange the shipping or was that detail left entirely to you?

Also did Len crate up the engine or did you have to arrange that?

Thanks for all your helpful info.....and Congrats on a successful startup of your new engine in a very creative A/C environment!!!!

[convgto]

I can answer some questions now and will answer engine parts and spects when I get back and check them. I had him pick the block core, it is a 73 400 big car block, no core charge and no shipping a block to him. It came real nicely painted and I was impressed that the bolt holes were clean, and crank was set at tdc, it was pretty much buttoned up, oil pan, heads, valley pan, timing cover, oil filter adapter/ holder, I did have to put a fitting in the passenger side back of head for heater hose and put a plug by the dist., of coarse I did the water pump, pulleys, intake, etc, he would of have done most all of that if I had ask. I did have him get me a manual flywheel and he balanced it and sent with motor.
Len crated the motor, real nice job out of 2x6, 2x4 and 1/2" plywood, I dont have to return it or nothing. He set up shipping with my approval, I had it shipped to a car repair shop (business) for cheaper shipping, no tail gate on truck thats extra. Shipping price was very fair. I went with his 455 short block but I made it a long block
http://lenwilliamsautomachine.com/455_Short_Block.html
I added a forged crank, main studs and harland sharp rockers the rest was included.
ftwmlp, mine sat about a year also, busy. I just primed it and fired right up. No leaks, only 1 my fault the rad. hose.
ponyakr, companies need to have competition, good for us all, especially if the quality is the same, im very impressed. I've had 5 motors built, 2 went bad, my first one a dodge builder built in dayton ohio, didnt clean the oil gallys, then put it back together and left the # 7 rod bolts loose, confirmed by arp, kammer and kammer was the builder almost destroyed my #s matching 65 gto block, #7 had to be sleeved. The other motor wasnt as bad by a ford builder (very reputable), I have learned if you have to ship it 3000 miles for a pontiac builder do it. The next 2 were very good built by dave hillard, near dayton, oh, I use to live near him, but he's not building anymore. so people need options, on this site you have all kinds of people, the money people and us that watch our dollars people. Save on the build so I can afford the fitech.
done ramblin thanks for the replies.

[grivera]

great info - thanks for sharing your experience.

[1968GTO421]

Great info....Thanks for sharing it with us!!

[convgto]

Eagle forged 4.250 stroker crank, ARP main studs, Eagle H beam rods, SRP pistons .035 bore and hone with plate, new main & rod bearings, Melling cam RA4, , Melling oil pump, 6X heads competition valve job, Harland Sharp rockers. FYI, I broke it in with Valvoline VR1 straight 30 wt. with 12 oz. of Comp Cams engine break in lube, 6 qts. total. Drained oil, changed out Wix oil filter with new Wix filter after break in while oil still hot. On Lens recommendation I will be running Valvoline VR1 20w50, and i'm probably gonna add a little of the Comp Cam break in lube. He said keep an eye on cold oil pressure, on using 20w50.

[ponyakr]

Thanks for that info !

Does it have Rhoads lifters ?

Do you know the head chamber size ?

Stock valves or one piece stainless ?

Deck height ?

What head gaskets ?

[Yater]

EDIT: I realized you posted some of the info while I was writing. Excellent and thanks!
Still interested in hearing about your driving experience when you can start enjoying it ! ;-)
And .. Congratulations !

Hi,

Really good info here.
I have been following LW too for some time, also asked for some advice to some others well known builders, in case I would finally decide to go for an engine upgrade at some point.

Quick question: could you please describe the set up used in your engine ? Iron vs Alum heads ? Cam / lifters ... is this the 041 + Rhoads set-up ? CR...

I would be interested in hearing about your driving impressions when you can share them.

Thanks !

[convgto]

041 + Rhoads lifters, 6x-8 iron heads no porting, stock valves. Plan on switching to alum heads in the future.
Been working on the fitech a little, yea cant wait to drive, but will probably be awhile Yater, will let you know.

[Cliff R]

"I've caught some flack for recommending Len, without having bought from him."

Just keep in mind that there really isn't anything wrong with recommending folks based on your research, but you really don't know the quality of the work or what the end result will be without actually having hired him to do an engine and exploited the results in all areas. In your defense folks reading threads based on such research should be smart enough to know that.

Anyhow, Len has been at it quite a while and gets good reviews. The only thing I can say about his work is that I don't know how he makes a living at those prices. I've been building these engines for decades and finally got clear out of it because it's difficult to make money on them in terms of dollars per hour compared to other things, like carburetors, distributors and transmissions. This year alone I've turned down at least a dozen engine jobs, most were Pontiac builds. I only did two the year before, one was for a local customer and one for ourselves. Even though we got excellent results from the one local job we did, it came here a complete DISASTER with only 190 miles on a recent complete rebuild. Those will be the worst jobs you do, going behind someone else who screwed the build up in just about every area.

Engines also take up a LOT of space in the shop, and it often takes weeks and even months to sort out all the details and get everything on site to complete the assembly. We also dyno all of them, so you've got another day out of the shop and have load and unload the engine couple of times and effectively secure it for the trip to and from the dyno while keeping dust and dirt out of it at the same time.

For sure I'm not missing any of that work, not to mention the logistics involved with shipping them, and the fact that freight costs have skyrocketed since I opened my shop here in 2003.......Cliff

[77 TRASHCAN]

I am no expert, but have done some machine work....believe it or not..

Set up time is what eats your shorts. I'm guessing that Len only does Pontiac's.
He might have his machines setup to do Pontiac's only.
His prices are still extremely competitive....who knows.

Then I wonder about his shop. I believe he moved here recently, maybe 5-10 years ago. If his building and equipment is all paid for, that makes a BIG difference in what you have to make $$$ profit wise.

I just freshened up an old Chebby 350 for a friend. Just the clutter of all the empty Summit boxes was enough...then the engine owner was a little antsy about how long it was taking (3-4 months), of course he knew this was done in my spare time.

THEN, when he and another of his friends installed it, AND it fired right up on first key turn, he was surprised....he watches all those TV shows where that seldom happens. I told him, this ain't no TV show.......

[ftwmlp]

When I delivered my donor engine to Len in 2009 he had his shop behind his house. I have been around a few machine shops, but certainly no expert, his seemed organized and fully equipped. He told me at that time he was in the process of moving all the equipment to a new shop within a few months, but since I did not have to return to pick up the finished product, I can not confirm that happened. I do think he told me he only worked on Pontiacs as was suggested.

[HWYSTR455]

Blows me away how many of those 'pro' and/or 'custom' high-end shops on TV have flaming startups. Duh IMO. Can even see them cranking the dizzy back and forth, just makes me shake my head. Dang 101 crap they screw up, make one wonder about what else is done incorrectly.

And they you talk to those people and they say something like "We've been doing this for X years". When I hear that, I think "yeah, all those years and you're still doing it wrong".

Anyway, yes, Len, I too believe he can do it for that money because of lack of overhead. And true on the fact if he only does Pontiac, the equipment is all setup already, saving time.

I too have heard only good about Len, though have never personally used him.

.