[BDH79T/A]

Keep in mind, this is for a street and highway driven 428. Years ago, more than I care to admit, I had a very nice running 66 LeMans. Fairly stock 400, #13 heads, Manley Thunderstick cam with 214/224 duration, 443/465 with 112 sep IIRC. Loved that car. Flash forward to today. I was able to purchase a 69 428 block and crank on the cheap. Block is at the machine shop now. Bored very nicely .030. The crank turned 10/10. Stock resized rods. I'm working toward 9.5 to 1 compression. Either Icon 10 cc or something comparable in a DSS. I've got a set of #13 heads that are rebuilt. Was thinking a mild port and opening the chambers up to around 75-78cc. I've also located a set of 6X-4s and a set of 62s. Both would need rebuilt. This is all going in a 79 Trans Am running a 3.08 rear and currently a TH350. Stock converter at present. I do have a built TH400 as well. The plan is to run this on 91-93 octane pump gas. From what I've read, the 428 usually likes a little more duration but I'm concerned about going too far....And not far enough. LOL. This needs to have decent vacuum for brakes. I've run Rhodes in the past. They are not out of the question, but not my first choice.

Money for E heads or KRE is not an option right now. I know and admit it has its place, but a forged crank, BBC rods, custom pistons, a roller cam, aluminum heads, $750 headers and so on...Well that's not in the budget and in the end, there's not much "Pontiac" left.

I have a new 068 cam, but I'm also looking at a summit 2801, 2802, and a couple of the Lunati cams caught my eye. Hoping for some real world input here. I'm still at a point I can make some changes in parts selection if needed. Thanks for any input you may have.

[ponyakr]

For your low budget build, the best value I can think of is a Summit 2801 with some of the $59 dollar lifters & $77 springs that Paul Spotts sells.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-2801

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Hydrauli...xZODlz&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-V8-s...lU0mJ9&vxp=mtr


A 2802 will make more power, but will probably require stronger springs, which cost more.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-2802

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VSH3-Pontiac...NW0LgK&vxp=mtr

http://www.jegs.com/i/Crower/258/684...xoCZQIQAvD_BwE


"... I've also located a set of 6X-4s..."

I'd go with the 6x-4 heads, for a lot of reasons.

http://www.wallaceracing.com/cr_test2.php

If the CR is below 9:1, a Voodoo, such as the 262, might be a good choice. But again, it costs more than the Summit cams.

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1775


"...I've run Rhodes in the past. They are not out of the question..."

I love Rhoads. With 3.08 gears & a stock converter, I'd run the Super Lube Rhoads, with the 2802 cam. But, the Rhoads are nearly 3 times the price of the Spotts' lifters.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rhl-9518l


A Crower 60243 would make more power than the 2802. But, it's about double the price.

https://www.crower.com/camshafts/pon...m-284-hdp.html


So, I reckin it just depends on how much you wanna spend for the cam/lifters/springs.

Lots of guys have reported liking the 041, in a 428. If you wanna go that big, without Rhoads, the Howard's 410051-14 might be about the biggest you can use, without Rhoads, & still have enuff vac for power brakes. But, I'm sure some of the experts here can more closely predict the vac you'll get from any particular cam.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...w/make/pontiac

[BDH79T/A]

Thanks for the advice and quick reply. I'm not quite THAT low budget. I am wanting to have some decent street manners above all else. I'm aware that the 6X can be milled for more compression, but what other reasons would you have for using them over the 13?

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by BDH79T/A

Thanks for the advice and quick reply. I'm not quite THAT low budget. I am wanting to have some decent street manners above all else. I'm aware that the 6X can be milled for more compression, but what other reasons would you have for using them over the 13?

Factory hardened seats and a more pump gas friendly CR, with flat top pistons & zero deck height. I plugged some numbers into the Wallace CR calculator, for a 428 + '030.

90cc heads, 5cc reliefs, .039 x 4.3 gaskets, .000 deck height CR = 9.50

Changing to 94cc heads lowered the CR to 9.19. To me, that means that you wouldn't really need to cut any off the 6x-4 heads, for decent but safe pump gas CR.


"...not quite THAT low budget. I am wanting to have some decent street manners above all else..."

Therefore, I'd recommend the Voodoo 262 & Crower Cam Saver lifters. I assume the $77 Spotts' springs will work with this cam, since CC recommends only the CC 988-16 springs for their similar XE262 cam.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...RoCecUQAvD_BwE

If you'd prefer not to use a steep ramp cam, such as the Voodoo, a couple of smaller cams would be the Lunati 10510312, and the Crower 60916. Both are bigger than any factory 428 cam, but should have very good low rpm street manners. Won't have the top end power of the 60243, but will have a smoother idle, more vac, & more low rpm torque.

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1759&gid=278

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cro-60916

This Crane is just a hair bigger and has a 114 LSA.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/283801-Crane...-/231872791673

The AutoTec 428 pistons are shown to have 3.8cc reliefs. But some have posted that they are bigger. So I used 5cc for the reliefs, when I used the Wallace CR calculator. And, as has been said here many times before, AutoTec will locate your pins where you need 'em, in order to get near zero deck height, without having to cut additional material off the block decks.

https://shanonsengineering.com/produ...at-top-pistons

Several here have mentioned ordering AutoTecs thru Paul Knippen. Maybe somebody here can tell us exactly how big the AutoTec reliefs are.

[71 T/A]

The Stump Puller HR from SD Performance is the best street cam I've ever used.

[Skip Fix]

I've got the Summit 2801 in a low compression 400-really mild 428 might want a step bigger.

[BDH79T/A]

Thanks for all the links ponyakr. Very much appreciated. And this is where the problem lies. Unless you've had real world experience, or the software to run, cam selection is rough. Steeper ramps, higher duration, more lift, narrow, moderate or wide separation. I guess in the end it'll be trial and error....starting with one of these selections and taking the plunge. A cam isn't forever. It can always be changed.

[ponjohn]

If you have money for a roller then the Stump Puller is your cam.

[BDH79T/A]

I do like the idea of a roller cam. I know they are a lot more reliable with less wear and friction. But man, $800 minimum. Tough one to swallow.

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by BDH79T/A

I do like the idea of a roller cam. I know they are a lot more reliable with less wear and friction. But man, $800 minimum. Tough one to swallow.

I think if you add it all up, it will cost well over $1000 more to go with a HR set-up. I'm talkin a $400 cam, $500 + lifters, and probably $300 alum roller rockers, and $150 pushrods, plus the $125 BOP polymer dist gear. Hey, we're up to $1500 already. Compare this to a Summit cam, and Spotts' lifters & springs, along with stock rockers & cheap replacement pushrods. My addition adds up to more than $1000 more for the HR set-up, unless you can buy some good used stuff, cheap.

Not saying a HR cam does not have advantages. Just comparing price only.

[tom s]

X2-X3 for the SP hyd roller.Tom

[ta man]

The bottom dollar build is the 068 cam and a refreshed set of heads. I had a similar build years ago great torque great street engine.
Next level add 1.65 rockers, enlarge pushrod holes ,68404 crower springs, and swap cam.
Next level have heads ported and step up to hyd roller cam.

[ta man]

Originally Posted by ponyakr

I think if you add it all up, it will cost well over $1000 more to go with a HR set-up. I'm talkin a $400 cam, $500 + lifters, and probably $300 alum roller rockers, and $150 pushrods, plus the $125 BOP polymer dist gear. Hey, we're up to $1500 already. Compare this to a Summit cam, and Spotts' lifters & springs, along with stock rockers & cheap replacement pushrods. My addition adds up to more than $1000 more for the HR set-up, unless you can buy some good used stuff, cheap.

Not saying a HR cam does not have advantages. Just comparing price only.

Plus add in required valve spring work and possible new valves to accomadate the higher lift of the SP puller cam.

[ponyakr]

"...The bottom dollar build is the 068 cam and a refreshed set of heads..."


If you're counting the dollars, the Summit cam set-up will be cheaper than an 068 clone set-up, unless you can get by without buying new springs, because of the low lift of the 068 cam.

The cheapest 068 I can find today, is from Auto Zone & O'Reilly, @ $119 + Tax.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/m...s/spc7/4441260

The Summit cams are $73, if you add enuff to your order for free shipping. That's over $50 difference.

If somebody knows of a cheaper source for an 068 clone, please post a link.

[ta man]

Originally Posted by ponyakr

"...The bottom dollar build is the 068 cam and a refreshed set of heads..."


If you're counting the dollars, the Summit cam set-up will be cheaper than an 068 clone set-up, unless you can get by without buying new springs, because of the low lift of the 068 cam.

The cheapest 068 I can find today, is from AZ & O'Reilly, @ $119 + Tax.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/m...s/spc7/4441260

OP has the 068 already! That's cheaper!

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by ta man

OP has the 068 already! That's cheaper!

Yeah, $0 is definitely the cheapest cam I know of. Even Summit can't match that.

If it was mine, I'd go with something a little bigger, and sell the new 068. There are so many guys here who seem to love the 068, it should be easy to sell. Should be able to get at least $100 shipped, or a little more. I'd think the 068 will be dead smooth in a 428, and will give up mid range power to some of the slightly bigger cams. But, if a guy wanted a smooth idle and will seldom try to rev past 5000 rpm, an 068 might work just fine.

[BDH79T/A]

Yep. I have a new 068. Had it for years. Was originally planning on a 400 build until I ran across this 428 and couldn't pass it up. I'm honestly not as much concerned with cost as I am with bang for the buck. My end goal is a decent street car. I'm not looking to build the fastest car in the state. If that means a different cam with good power AND is drivable with an AT and PB, then that's what I'll do. An 068 just seems it may leave a lot on the table with a 428. I know it's an old grind and there are plenty out there that have had the profiles and LSA angles optimized. What I'm not sure of is whether a 428 will run something like say the Summit 2802 without a stall. If I'm running 9.25 to 1 I know I don't want to bleed off too much compression with a ton of duration. I don't want to retain too much and blow the rod bearings out. I know there are a myriad of other things to consider. VE, state of tune, exhaust, so on and so forth. I do appreciate everyone's input.

[BDH79T/A]

You read my mind ponyakr. Exactly my thinking about the 068.

[ta man]

Check this old link out.http://www.dapa.org/building-a-stron...iac-camshafts/

[ponyakr]

With between 9 & 9.25 CR, I still like the Voodoo 262, for what you've described.

But, what do I know ? I've never used a Voodoo cam.