[grandville455]

So My old motor I ran crower .842 needle bearing lifters, with no restrictors, had excellent oil pressure etc, This new IA Block will be using .904 morel bushed lifters, and they say not to use restrictors, but if I use a vacuum pump which i hope do to, don't i need to limit the oil in that area? This all new to me, with this block and those type of lifters, so it be really helpful to hear from people that are running the IA Blocks with a bushed lifter and also drive it on the street, not just a race only deal, and not with needle bearings as that's a different deal as far as oiling to them .Bullet said they like to see a .100 at least for a restrictor when using these lifters, I've seen alot on here that use a 30-60, but more of those are with needle bearing lifters, When I talked to frank, he said these blocks oil so well he couldn't imagine a .100 hole, but again this is a street / strip deal not flat out for 1320, but i also don't need to fry a lifter or smoke out the neighbors lol, Thanks for any help on this!

[Hooter]

MR1 block, bushed Crower lifters and no restrictors in my 520 motor. Also ran a vacuum pump the 2 previous years with no issues either. Only header evacs on the 520.

[aaronman]

Darby - Reach out to Bill Meyer. All 3 of my IA motors have bushed lifter bores. He did them all and we've had no problems. Not street driven as you know!

[tom s]

I think that for engines run on the street and with constant extendedRPMs builders like more oil on the top to keep the springs cooled.What I have been told.Tom

[BADDTA]

Originally Posted by tom s

I think that for engines run on the street and with constant extendedRPMs builders like more oil on the top to keep the springs cooled.What I have been told.Tom

This^^^^.
Exactly what Leech told us to do. We have 800# + over the nose. Jake runs all over hell with his car. We have bushed lifters as well.

Brian

[grandville455]

Originally Posted by BADDTA

This^^^^.
Exactly what Leech told us to do. We have 800# + over the nose. Jake runs all over hell with his car. We have bushed lifters as well.

Brian

Brian
Do U guys have any restrictor's? What brand of lifters u guys running? What size lifters? Lifter bushings in block also/ U also run a vacuum pump too correct?

[Steve C.]

I have been using Crower Cutaway Severe-Duty solid roller lifters with 0.060" restrictors and a 80 lb oil pump. For the most part street only on this current engine, peak power is at 6000 rpm. While checking the valve lash during a routine check we found one valve would not stay in place, the lash would open up slightly after short use. We removed the intake and found one lifter where the wheel was ground flat enough it had got into the lifter body and it damaged the cam. We checked the valve spring pressure and all was fine, that was not the issue. All the other lifters checked out fine as far as being smooth rolling. These were needle bearing type lifters. They had about 5200 miles on them and we had no clue as to why the one failed.

I sent the lifters to Crower and had them rebuilt with bushings and when talking with Crower they were very adamant about using no lifter bore restrictors.
I do not know if they have "Chevy" type oiling system on their mind but I told him I was using a aftermarket IA2 block. We made no changes. But since then I have been told with the bushed type lifter to change the oil often and make sure it is well filtered.


.

[grandville455]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

I have been using Crower Cutaway Severe-Duty solid roller lifters with 0.060" restrictors and a 80 lb oil pump. For the most part street only on this current engine, peak power is at 6000 rpm. While checking the valve lash during a routine check we found one valve would not stay in place, the lash would open up slightly after short use. We removed the intake and found one lifter where the wheel was ground flat enough it had got into the lifter body and it damaged the cam. We checked the valve spring pressure and all was fine, that was not the issue. All the other lifters checked out fine as far as being smooth rolling. These were needle bearing type lifters. They had about 5200 miles on them and we had no clue as to why the one failed.

I sent the lifters to Crower and had them rebuilt with bushings and when talking with Crower they were very adamant about using no lifter bore restrictors.
I do not know if they have "Chevy" type oiling system on their mind but I told him I was using a aftermarket IA2 block. We made no changes. But since then I have been told with the bushed type lifter to change the oil often and make sure it is well filtered.


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Steve ,SO your still using .060 retrictors huh? What does the oiling path look like in IA2 block compared to a stock block, it's different isn't it? Id like to see a chart from one to the other to compare and it will help my engine guy too.

[slowbird]

Oiling is pretty much the same as a stock block

[Steve C.]

Darby, all we did at the time is put in the new cam and the reworked bushed lifters. So the .060" restrictors remain. I've read discussions about with and without restrictors, that's a hot topic. Related, I presume the hole in the side of the roller lifter and/or internal path (?) inside of the lifter itself is much smaller than the .060" therefore I've always felt it was not a issue. I think we get plenty of oil up top to the springs.

Regarding the oiling difference between a factory block and a IA2 block in specifics I have no idea, except they claim the IA2 has improved oiling. Others might comment here.

However recently I have been told that the lifter bore feed hole in the IA2 block is located higher up than in a factory block. I'm now starting to inquire about the potential of the lifters not having their oil band exposed to the lifter bore feed holes 100 percent of the time under certain circumstances. I know the base circle of the cam has a impact as does the lifter oil band location and/or width. The reason, a friend of mine is currently assembling his engine using a factory block and is using the same cam and lifters I have. Our lobe lift is 0.4300" and I use 1.65 ratio rocker on the intake. Apparently he feels it does not see oiling all the time. And the IA2 location might make it worse. I know the Crower lifter is edge orifice oiling, but is this situation effecting the oiling. Certainly it has impact on the Hi-Pressure Pin Oiler (HIPPO) on the Crower lifters because the small 0.024" hole that feeds oil to the needle bearings is located within the oil band. That means it is not getting 100 percent oiling to that hole.


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[grandville455]

Steve are u running standard journal cams and lifters yet? I'm gonna be using a 55 mm cam in this build also.

[grandville455]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Oiling is pretty much the same as a stock block

So just bigger orifices internally then for more flow? What pump N pan u using Brian?

[Steve C.]

My IA2 is standard cam journal. Bullet Racing Cams solid roller with .4300" lobe lift and 1.65 rocker ratio.

Our engine in the Fairmont is IA2 with a 50mm cam journal. Bullet Racing Cams solid roller with .5000" lobe lift and 1.7 rocker ratio.

Both T&D shaft system. Both using Crower Cutaway Severe-Duty solid roller lifters with bushings.

.

[mgarblik]

There are some subtle differences between stock block oiling and an IA II, but the "oiling circuit", is essentially the same. The drillings from the lifter gallery to the main bearings in a stock block are 5/16", nominal. In an IA II, they were reduced to 1/4" to increase strength in the main web. The IA II has an additional drilling from the outside of the block to the #1 main, capped with a 1/8" pipe plug. Stock block does not have this. It can be used to extract oil for turbo cooling for example, or be used to provide external feed oil to the #1 main. The drillings from the oil filter adapter pad are slightly different. The IA II has "cleanouts", in the center of the block where horizontal and vertical drillings intersect. The stock blocks do not and sharp edges can't easily be addressed. That's the only changes I am aware of. The fact that Steve had one lifter fail, only, tells me there was plenty of oil to the lifters. Either the lifter was defective, {very unlikely from Crower), or a tiny piece of crap got in the lifter wheel area and allowed the roller to skip. Once that happens, failure occurs very quickly.
Keep in mind ALL the lifter manufacturers say not to restrict in every application, every engine, every type of lifter. Their single concern is maxilum oil to their lifters. That's all they care about. In a Pontiac engine, a .060" hole in a lifter bushing or a restrictor screw will literally flood the valve train with oil. I just can't imagine needing more oil than that to the top. With a vacuum pump we were able to run .045" restrictors with the pick-up point for the vacuum pump up high in a tall valve cover without any issues.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by grandville455

Steve are u running standard journal cams and lifters yet? I'm gonna be using a 55 mm cam in this build also.

If you want to put tremendous oil to the lifters and not flood the valve covers, another option would be to line up the oil hole on the 55mm cam bearings. I normally recommend intentionally blocking the oil holes in the 55mm cam bearings because they have an OD feed groove. If you line them up, you will get crazy oil flow through the bearings and around the camshaft. Then you could use restrictor pushrods to limit oil to the very top. It's an option. Not the way I would do it, but if you want tons of oil to the lifters, it would accomplish that.

[Steve C.]

More great information from mgarblik, thanks for your input.

For those interested as it might reflect on Crower roller lifters here is another tid bit from him that might be of interest:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...08#post4967208


I found it in my chase for further lifter band information and potential issue with oiling.


.

[grandville455]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

There are some subtle differences between stock block oiling and an IA II, but the "oiling circuit", is essentially the same. The drillings from the lifter gallery to the main bearings in a stock block are 5/16", nominal. In an IA II, they were reduced to 1/4" to increase strength in the main web. The IA II has an additional drilling from the outside of the block to the #1 main, capped with a 1/8" pipe plug. Stock block does not have this. It can be used to extract oil for turbo cooling for example, or be used to provide external feed oil to the #1 main. The drillings from the oil filter adapter pad are slightly different. The IA II has "cleanouts", in the center of the block where horizontal and vertical drillings intersect. The stock blocks do not and sharp edges can't easily be addressed. That's the only changes I am aware of. The fact that Steve had one lifter fail, only, tells me there was plenty of oil to the lifters. Either the lifter was defective, {very unlikely from Crower), or a tiny piece of crap got in the lifter wheel area and allowed the roller to skip. Once that happens, failure occurs very quickly.
Keep in mind ALL the lifter manufacturers say not to restrict in every application, every engine, every type of lifter. Their single concern is maxilum oil to their lifters. That's all they care about. In a Pontiac engine, a .060" hole in a lifter bushing or a restrictor screw will literally flood the valve train with oil. I just can't imagine needing more oil than that to the top. With a vacuum pump we were able to run .045" restrictors with the pick-up point for the vacuum pump up high in a tall valve cover without any issues.

Thanks! I had talked to a couple of different engine builders, and they both said the bushing lifters like oil, Like it clean also, especially if its a street deal where its not high rpm pushing oil throughout the engine more then it would just cruising around? I just want this to live since i'm spending a lot of money! Its my first time with the bushing style lifter, as well as the block and bigger cam etc, that's why i'm in here asking for direct experience/ knowledge of people who have ran this style of setup, Jakes car is close to what my setup will be, Mine's just not as radical lol. I was thinking somewhere between a .060-.100 possibly for a restrictor, I guess i can do like u say also and turn the cam bearings to line up the hole, then i could stay with a .060, But will restricting the pushrods still provide enough cooling for the springs etc up top? I had almost 500 passes on my Last set of springs and they still measure basically what they did new! that's with no restrictors, but crower hippo lifters too.

[Steve C.]

Darby, if you don't have springs on hand yet consider a Pacaloy valve spring.

https://www.racingsprings.com/pacaloy

And if interested consider Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236

Paul has done my springs.

.
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[grandville455]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

Darby, if you don't have springs on hand yet consider a Pacaloy valve spring.

https://www.racingsprings.com/pacaloy

And if interested consider Paul Carter
Carter Cryogenics
www.cartercryo.com
520-409-7236

Paul has done my springs.

.
.

Steve
Just before drag week i replaced my PAC 1289 with another set of them..

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by grandville455

So just bigger orifices internally then for more flow? What pump N pan u using Brian?

60lb Melling Select