[Caster1]

I've got a question. I am curious as to how well the ford 9" rear end is accepted as a swap instead of a 12 bolt GM unit?

I'm upgrading the transmission, driveshaft and rear end to handle the 569 tq / 559 hp of the 461 stroker. Based on my research, the 9" is stronger, easier to change gearing if you want and is significantly less expensive than a comparable GM 12 bolt.

Based on the research I have done, it seems to be pretty well accepted but I am curious. Does it hold the same stigma as the dreaded LS swap?


Tommy

[JLMounce]

You can get an aftermarket 9" definitely for a bit cheaper than an aftermarket 12 bolt, but those two units aren't necessarily comparable in nature.

For instance, the 9" that Quick Performance sells in the 1800 range is pretty bare bones and doesn't really compare to say Moser's muscle car 12 bolt offering. By the time you add nicer parts, heavier duty equipment etc, you're going to be close to a moser 12 bolt muscle car pack. So this isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison.

That said even a basic 9" setup with a good carrier and 30 spline axles should hold up for you. You may want to consider upgrading to a 32 spline which gives you a bit more room to grow in the future if you want. Per Moser when I was building my 12 bolt, 30 spline is generally good to around 600 hp while 32 spline count shafts will support around 800.

The 12 bolt may fit a bit better and the moser offering has a lot of the 9" goodies in it like the late model torino housing ends and bolt in axles.

I would go with what your budget allows to be honest. I mentioned quick performance because they've got good pricing and I've recently had a really good experience with them. We had the 10 bolt in my wife's chevelle completely redone with new axles, bearings, carrier, gears etc. They're prices are good, fast shipping etc. They did have one mess-up and accidentally sent a 28 spline and 30 spline axle. This is where they impressed me. Mistakes happen, it's part of life. It's how a company deals with that mistake that determines how good they are. They immediately stepped up to the plate, overnight shipped a new axle without needing the return part first and credited the account for any future purchase as well as sending out some shwag for the wife and I.

All that occurred over the holidays when people were in and out of work visiting with family etc. I was really impressed with them and would certainly recommend them if you're looking there.

[pokey1]

Put the 9" from quick performance in mine with the 35 spline axles and all the goodies. Easy swap and works great.

[Caster1]

Thanks

The quick performance unit was quoted at 2354.00 based on my HP/TQ and included;


Housing with billet bearing ends
31 spline axles
Yukon Nodular Center any ratio
31 Tru Trac
Aluminum daytona support
1350 Billet Steel yoke
Brake bracket kit


The best I could get from Moser was their "Muscle pack" for my car and came in at 3685.00. That is a significant difference.


Would it bother you guys to run the 9". I know it is my car and my decision but I am curious if there is the same "LS" stigma attached to the 9"?


Thanks

[SRR]

I don't think so. It's a safety upgrade and since it's under the car most people wouldn't even know the difference. IMHO.

[b-man]

For myself I always considered having the Ford 9" rear under any make of car as an upgrade over the GM 12-bolt. Had one in my GTO bracket race car and was happy with the reliability it offered, at the drag strip it was the rear end to have. Watched plenty of guys with 12-bolt rears break them in the starting line. To have the 9" in your car was considered the ultimate by the guys I raced with.

Granted both my 9" (31-spline) and their 12-bolts were running stock components in the low-12 to high-11 second range so no real high horsepower, but again I could always depend on my Ford 9" to keep me in the running.

If I had 550+ horsepower and torque personally I'd run the 9". For my own street cars which are both in the 350 to 450 hp range I opted for the 8.5" 10-bolt.

It really all comes down to personal preference in the end, both the Ford 9" and the GM 12-bolt rears with the right aftermarket upgrades will do a fine job. Having a strong Ford rear end under your GM car is great, strength or performance upgrades are what hot rodders do no matter what the origin of the parts.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by Caster1

Thanks

The quick performance unit was quoted at 2354.00 based on my HP/TQ and included;


Housing with billet bearing ends
31 spline axles
Yukon Nodular Center any ratio
31 Tru Trac
Aluminum daytona support
1350 Billet Steel yoke
Brake bracket kit


The best I could get from Moser was their "Muscle pack" for my car and came in at 3685.00. That is a significant difference.


Would it bother you guys to run the 9". I know it is my car and my decision but I am curious if there is the same "LS" stigma attached to the 9"?


Thanks

Seems Moser’s prices have really gone up. My 12 bolt from them came in at 2800. That was back in 2008 though.

[ponjohn]

Look into Strange or Moser "dana" 60. Very good price point as well.

[Sirrotica]

Tell anyone looking at your car you put a 58 Pontiac rear under it, few people would know the difference. With a drop out center section in both and unless someone was well versed in 58 Pontiac 9.3 rear axles they'd never know the difference...………..

[Lee]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

Look into Strange or Moser "dana" 60. Very good price point as well.

Dana 60 is definitely stronger than either the 12-bolt or the 9, and can often be found for the same/less price.

A properly built 12-bolt will handle nearly any pump-gas naturally aspirated Pontiac.

With the same level of quality axles, gears, bearings, & carrier, I found a 9" and a 12-bolt to be very close in price.

There was a guy at the track I talked to, who had a wild sounding '65 Mustang. I could tell he was turning crazy rpm, and he said that he was launching at 7500 and shifting at 9000. It was a solid roller 289. He claimed the only trouble he had was breaking 9" rears.

[Chief of the 60's]

You can keep blowing up a 12 bolt or install a 9" and be done with it.

[PAUL K]

I'd vote for the 9" all day long. Put one in my 74 Firebird thirty one years ago and never had an issue. It's also easy to come across a third member or borrow one if you every want to try a different gear ratio.

[Sirrotica]

I would ask the guys that manufacture and sell them. There is of course going to be a bias on a GM board against other brands of rear axles. No mopar 8 3/4, nor 8.8 ford suggested here.

If you want it to be indestructible, go old school and put a 9.3 Pontiac/olds under it.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

9", FTW... it's your car.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

You can keep blowing up a 12 bolt or install a 9" and be done with it.

Now THERE is something that you and I can agree on CHIEF.

9" rears are typically the very old 28 spline, the 31 spline, a 33 spline aftermarket axle, the 35 spline, and you can even get a Pure Race 40 spline axle.

MOSER 9" axles are a pure B*tch to machine. Very hard surface and thru material.
Even a common MOSER Catalog 31 spline "street axle" would handle your NA power very well.

Tom V.

[gassman_67]

next on my shopping list is a Quick Performance 9 "..FWIW

[64speed]

Tommy as you know I installed the quick performance 9 inch in my car. I got all the bells and whistles with fill and drain plug and aluminum center section and disc brakes with the upgraded moser axles and I was still over a grand less than anyone else. The 9 inch is not as strong as the Dana 60 but it also doesn’t sap as much power to turn. Frictional losses in drivetrain terms are supposed to be the lowest with the 9 inch or so I’ve been told. The only thing I can say about quick performances 9 inch other than the fact that it was a cinch to install and fit perfectly is that the drain and fill plug are a necessity. Do it and don’t look back

[mgarblik]

I think the 9" Ford is pretty much accepted in the higher HP builds. IMO, the only reason to consider a 12 bolt is the more stock appearance to a Pontiac 10 bolt rear. Because of the pinion position in the housing, a 12 bolt is slightly more efficient than a 9", creating a little less sliding friction and may be worth a HP or 2. But a 9" is soooo much easier to set up and change if needed. While I agree a Dana 60 is super strong, they are VERY heavy with their 9.75" components. Also, Dana rear ends are the most difficult of all the common rear ends to set-up and get just right. They put all their shims behind the bearing cones which means pressing off bearings every time a shim change is needed. Most people who work on them have "set up" bearings they have made by opening up the ID of the bearings so they can slide them on and off without pressing until they have it right. A complete PIA. I have spent 5-6 hours setting up a Dana 60 just right. Most Ford 9" you can do in 2 hours tops. Best of luck with your choice.

[Mike Davis]

I guess I am on the other side on this one. I'll take a good 12 bolt all day long. Takes less HP to turn a 12bolt than a 9". Back when I worked with Jim Kinnett he ran a 12 bolt in his Hemi Pro Stock Volare due that reason alone. With a Pontiac making less than 650HP a properly set up 12 bolt with good axles, spool/Moroso Carrier and gear it should last a long time.

Most people set them up too loose. Set the backlash around .007, take all the slack out when you stage the car if running at the track.

[61-63]

I guess you guys know this but the only reason the 9" is now the standard is because all of the old 9.3" Olds/Pontiac stuff got used up. Fabcraft/Richmond reproduced new components for the 9.3" and Fabcraft also now sells a brand new posi for the 9.3 which they call "Trophy Track". Brad tells me he has sold a bunch of them to people doing gasser recreations and has had zero issues with them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-1958-1...8AAOSwnDxUf5eY

Just something to consider..