[T/A addict]

So I have a previous thread on a 400 shortblock that "looks" decent and have been considering installing the parts I have for it and going from there but the longer it sits there and stares at me the more I dislike what I see and consider rebuilding it (why not do it right the first time)..... With that thought in mind I have a few questions.

The car would see very little high rpm or racing action, I just want a strong street car out of this one.
First and foremost, if I decide to rebuild it this will be my first build and will be researching much and asking questions on many parts and procedures. Could also chicken out and hire someone to build the shortblock.

I have the following items already acquired for the build/assembly:
6X-4s that have been ported/polished and has all pos valve seals with 211/177 SS valves, guides/springs, elongated push rod holes all casting materials cleaned up. 90cc
Performer intake and a Fel-Pro 1233 gasket set.
Holley Sniper (Q-jet version), Dual Sync distributor, Sniper Hyperspark ignition box, Hyperspark coil.
Ram Air manifolds.... No long tubes. The car already sits low enough and I don't want clearance issues if I don't have to.
along with other odds and ends....

What is the standard procedure for machine shop prep? I guess to remove the crank, pistons, cam and everything and take the block and crank in is the way to go?
What machining will be needed?

What rotating assembly and cam components would you recommend?
Would a stroker build be the way to go without getting too much more expensive and exposing too many other drivetrain upgrade requirements?

[F ROCK]

leave it together and let your engine guy disassemble it. He will want to know which pistons came from which hole etc.
My budget 455 shortblock cost me 2000$ I think; and it included a dip, flux, cam bearing install, oil pump, rings, bearings, gaskets and reassemble.

[Dragncar]

Get some good steel rods. Stroker ? A 4" stroker would run great. People seem to love them. Butler sells them.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

What car? Whats it weigh? What transmission and rear gears in it now?
What kind of cam are the heads set up for?
Does it need to be interstate friendly? Stop-N-Go city traffic friendly?
Pump gas friendly? Does gas milage count?
Significant other friendly?

Engine/cam threads run amuk on here without extreme specific details on what you really want.

Clay

[Squidward]

A 400 would give you plenty of street car - the scale of what defines a "street" car has drifted in the last handful of years. 5-600 horsepower is not really street usable IMO.

I don't see the need for a stroker, so I won't bother dreaming up any exotic stuff that you have to pay for.

A stock 3.75" stroke crank with 5140 rods and forged pistons would be all you need. I did Speed Pro forged pistons on mine, because they were already bought and paid for. They are heavier and older tech, but still work. Autotec pistons seem to be the thing these days in everybody's street build. I used a PRW neutral balance flexplate, and had the entire assembly balanced to fine precision. Nothing fancy. I used ARP main bolts and head bolts. Butler 5140 rods already came with ARP hardware.

Finding a shop that has a ton of Pontiac specific experience might be a little tough, but Pontiacs go together like the other makes. Skill at automotive machining and solid attention to detail are critical. Pontiac has its own little oddities, like hanging the rods properly on the pistons, especially if the pistons do NOT have an arrow marking (like a piston with 2 valve reliefs). The rod chamfer goes toward the cheek, and the 2 valve relief face inboard. #2 cylinder on a Pontiac is the forward-most cylinder, not #1. This makes a difference in hanging rods. I've had a generally experienced shop get that confused, and hang the rods backwards.

I used the BOP one piece seal, and have been very pleased.

I went with 84cc iron d-ports with 2.11/1.77 SS valves - enough compression to not leave a bunch on the table, yet manageable on pump gas. It sounds like your heads are prepped for any kind of street cam you might want to throw at it.

I used a 703 Voodoo cam and Crower cam saver lifters. I was initially going to go with the Lunati kit lifters, but wanted the extra oiling. There is another thread here recently with Lunati lifter fails, so that would be something to think about before going with a cam kit - don't know if that issue has been resolved by now. I wouldn't go with any more cam than the 703, tho, or you might see your power band shift up where you don't want to play. It is plenty of cam, probably even more than I really need. But at the time I was doing more bracket racing, and the speed bug had bit. It makes for an engine that is lots of fun, but has more power than I can use legally unless I go to a track. I'm sure a 702 Voodoo cam would be plenty in 400, and would allow a more gentle rear gear and stock stall.

Using aftermarket EFI is awesome. With your Sniper, you won't have to be a tuning genius with 30+years experience to get it dialed in to 80-90% ideal. Really smart tech dudes have done that work before you get it. My FiTech's feed my engines perfectly for their cams. Love them.

I used a Summit 9 way billet roller set. I recommend using the multi keyway set. It helped me get my cam degreed to the right ICL.

Hope this helps. Building it yourself with quality parts is a great experience.

[T/A addict]

Thanks guys!

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

What car? Whats it weigh? What transmission and rear gears in it now?
What kind of cam are the heads set up for?
Does it need to be interstate friendly? Stop-N-Go city traffic friendly?
Pump gas friendly? Does gas milage count?
Significant other friendly?

Engine/cam threads run amuk on here without extreme specific details on what you really want.

Clay

it's a 79 T/A with 2.73 stock gearing, currently has a TH350 but thinking about going with a stage 2 built 2004r with a 2400 stall convertor because yes it does need to be highway friendly. Pump gas friendly and S/O can learn with whatever it's built as.
Heads should be good and ready for any moderate cam as is


Thanks Squidward.... totally helpful! I very much appreciate it!
The 703 cam sounds perfect
I think a 400 hp vicinity would be ideal for this build. I would really like to start driving and enjoying my cars more than I have in the past. Not daily drivers but "once/twice a week cruiser"

[ponyakr]

As I've said here many times, I would not spend any money building a "557" block, if that's what you have. Not gonna do a search to find out.

If you have a 481988 or XX 481988 block, then a 4.21 or 4.25 stroker assembly would be the easiest way to build a 400hp very steetable pump gas engine.

With a long stroke build you won't need a big cam to make 400hp. The Summit 2802 is probably enuff. Others might include the Crane 283951, Crower 60243, Crane 283521, Howards 410051-14, and an 041 clone like the Melling SPC-8.

I prefer Rhoads lifters. But many hate 'em, & prefer the Hylift Johnson "R" lifters.

Some prefer a Voodoo cam. But you won't need one to make 400hp, with a long stroke. Plus, Paul Carter has posted here several times about the extra spring pressure required for the steep ramps of the Voodoo cams. Just extra stress on valve train parts that is not needed for a frequent driver, at the power level you want, IMO.

Opinions here vary from mild to wild, for the same build. Some are very conservative. Some want max power, leaving none "on the table".

[TCSGTO]

Be aware you probably won’t gain much ground clearance, and may lose some, with RA manifolds. You need a 2.5” head pipe with a generous radius to make them work better than the basic log style and that compromises your ground clearance.

[T/A addict]

Nah.... I do know the rep on the 557 blocks and wouldn't waste time on it unless it was Numbers matching to restored car.

I just installed PTFB GT suspension and a full Pypes 2.5" X exhaust on the car last year and have no complaints on clearance other than I need to tuck the mufflers up a little tighter.

[Squidward]

Originally Posted by ponyakr

With a long stroke build you won't need a big cam to make 400hp.

I agree. Big cubes is easy. I don't want to kill op's wallet with exotic suggestions, tho. A great street motor can happen with a 400 cube foundation, but it takes some thought. A bigger cube 455+ motor would make 400hp easy with little thought or exotic parts. Kinda like rifles... a great optic can get you instantly hitting target at distance. Iron sights will get you on target, but you will have to work for it!

[Steve C.]

You’ve got questions, we’ve got answers. We work with the Summit Racing tech department to help you tackle your auto-related conundrums. In this week’s Mailbag, we’re recommending a parts combo to get 400+ horsepower from a Pontiac 400 engine in a 1968 Firebird.

Maybe TAQuest wrote in

Q: I want to build a Pontiac 400 engine for my 1968 Firebird. What parts would I need to build a sweet-running engine that makes around 400 horsepower? (Money is no issue!)

A: We think the Edelbrock Performer RPM package would be ideal for you. Here are the parts you’ll need:

Edelbrock Performer intake manifold
Edelbrock Performer cam and lifter set
Edelbrock Performer aluminum cylinder heads
Edelbrock Performer head bolt kit
Edelbrock Performer 750 cfm carburetor
The Edelbrock cylinder heads have Ram Air exhaust IV ports—so you should use this set of Hedman headers. Keep your compression ratio at about 9.5:1.

According to Edelbrock, this combo will yield 422 horsepower and 441 foot-pounds of torque on pump gas.

.

[lust4speed]

The Felpro 1233 intake gaskets are very nice, but the ports are RAIV size and you will need to stick them up to the Performer manifold and insure that you have good sealing. If you have the Performer RPM and not the standard Performer, then there is enough meat and there won't be a problem.

[T/A addict]

Yea..... that Edelbrock package would be great but I am really wanting to keep the build on this 400 to a minimum expense and wanting to keep it in a moderate and reliable power range. more than the stock 220 with some nice rock to it but not too crazy...I'm not wanting to install subframe connectors etc. Just want to get the motor/trans in and not have to worry about anything other than the interior. just finally drive and enjoy it more. I do have another project that I want a bada$$ stroker for but that is in the future.

Originally Posted by lust4speed

The Felpro 1233 intake gaskets are very nice, but the ports are RAIV size and you will need to stick them up to the Performer manifold and insure that you have good sealing. If you have the Performer RPM and not the standard Performer, then there is enough meat and there won't be a problem.

Thanks for the info... it is a standard performer.

[ponyakr]

Here's an example of a 400 that is said to be capable of around 385hp.

http://lenwilliamsautomachine.com/400_Long_Block.html

Here's just the shortblock. You could build or buy something like this, then add your heads, cam, etc.

http://lenwilliamsautomachine.com/400_Short_Block.html

Here's some ready-to-assemble shortblocks.

https://butlerperformance.com/i-2553...tegory:1234783

https://butlerperformance.com/i-2445...tegory:1234783

[Sidponcho]

[QUOTE=ponyakr;6021034]Here's an example of a 400 that is said to be capable of around 385hp.

http://lenwilliamsautomachine.com/400_Long_Block.html

If it holds up, not sure how you could beat this deal

[Jay S]

From the earlier pics from the previous threads it looked like you have a good short block to start with to rering, new bearing and go. That is more of a do it your self recipe though. Most shops want control over what needs to be done so they can stand behind it, 2k dissappears really fast when they bore it, install new pistons, then deck and resize components for a short block.

We have installed a lot of used short and long blocks, reman blocks, then done basic rering, rebearing and resize components for a lot of people. By far the most common failure has been loosing rod bearings on used stuff, 2nd is burning oil on the used short and long blocks. We have had a lot of success with reusing factory pistons, new rings, new main, rod and cam bearings, checking to make sure everything is true. Grind the crank if necessary, make sure you have adequate oil clearance and adding a hi volume oil pump and ARP rod bolts.. For running the 400 you have, I highly recommend doing that as a minimum. Then bolt on the 6x heads with a cam and it should not be all that difficult to come close to 400 hp with the 400.

[T/A addict]

Originally Posted by Jay S

From the earlier pics from the previous threads it looked like you have a good short block to start with to rering, new bearing and go. That is more of a do it your self recipe though. Most shops want control over what needs to be done so they can stand behind it, 2k dissappears really fast when they bore it, install new pistons, then deck and resize components for a short block.

We have installed a lot of used short and long blocks, reman blocks, then done basic rering, rebearing and resize components for a lot of people. By far the most common failure has been loosing rod bearings on used stuff, 2nd is burning oil on the used short and long blocks. We have had a lot of success with reusing factory pistons, new rings, new main, rod and cam bearings, checking to make sure everything is true. Grind the crank if necessary, make sure you have adequate oil clearance and adding a hi volume oil pump and ARP rod bolts.. For running the 400 you have, I highly recommend doing that as a minimum. Then bolt on the 6x heads with a cam and it should not be all that difficult to come close to 400 hp with the 400.

Thanks... I do see some good signs with it. Question..... The pistons seem to have some kind of ceramic coating or something on the top of them. I've not seen anything like that before.
Does anyone know what this may be? good or bad?

I am trying to formulate this build plan for the worst case. I have still considered just putting in the new oil pump etc, button her back up and put her on the run stand and just see what I get.