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#1
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#16 Heads
Ran into a Pontiac expert at a cruise in several days ago and he wanted to show his buddies how much he knew about GTO's. My Goat has the numbers matching 400 H.O. code WS and # 16 heads. My heads were produced same month as car per date code. He proceeded to explain to me that the 16 heads were total junk. The valves were way to small and the studs were press-in. I tried to tell him that the valves were 2.06 intake and 1.72 exhaust, while not huge, were not small either. And it had screw in studs and I know this because I replaced several valve springs a couple years ago, it even still had the stock gridle on top of the rocker arms. But he knew everthing and I just let him talk. By the way, he had never owned a Pontiac. Would some of you please give me your thoughts on the 1968 400 H.O. and the #16 heads. By the way, my best time at Atlanta Dragway was 14.04 at 99 mph with 3::55 gears w/open rear about 12 years ago on street tires. Thanks
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1968 GTO Numbers matching 400 H.O. 4-speed 3:55 1964 T-Bird 46,000 Actual Mile 1928 Model A 2009 Lexus 1981 Dodge D-100 1976 Cadillac Eldorado Convertible 19631/2 Ford Galaxie Fastback |
#2
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2.11/1.77 valves and screw-in rockers studs on all 1968 #16 heads, they’re one of the desirable big valve high-compression 400 heads made from ‘67 through ‘70.
The 1970 small valve (1.96/1.66) #16 heads with press-in studs were used on some medium performance 400 engines. Not a bad head at all, the ports on the small valve heads were essentially the same as on the big valve heads. The smaller valves, though not as desirable as larger valves, really weren’t a huge detriment to making good horsepower. Keep in mind that all 389 GTO engines and 421 HO big Pontiac engines all came with heads that had 1.92/1.66 valves and press-in studs. These cars more than held their own on the streets and certainly weren’t turds by any means.
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1964 Tempest Coupe LS3/4L70E/3.42 1964 Le Mans Convertible 421 HO/TH350/2.56 2002 WS6 Convertible LS1/4L60E/3.23 |
#3
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I thought the 16s (as I have in my YS engine 68 GTO) are 2.11 and 1.77. You can't really fit anything larger I don't think ... the valves almost touch as it is.
I think all the RA engines used the same 2.11 and 1.77 valve size. I think most #16 heads have 72cc chambers, so good for high compression builds. Yes they all have screw in studs. (corrected by B-man) I mean they aren't round port RA heads but they are pretty much a standard Pontiac performance head. B-Man ... beat me to it. |
#4
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I'm a little confused. When I stated my valves were 2.06/1.72, I was going by a shop manual I have for 68 GTO. I have found that the manual leaves a lot to be desired in other areas also. So is the manual wrong? Do I have 2.11/177 or 2.06/1.72. I hope I got 2.11/1.77. Thanks, Mike
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1968 GTO Numbers matching 400 H.O. 4-speed 3:55 1964 T-Bird 46,000 Actual Mile 1928 Model A 2009 Lexus 1981 Dodge D-100 1976 Cadillac Eldorado Convertible 19631/2 Ford Galaxie Fastback Last edited by rememberfireball#22; 11-28-2019 at 09:44 PM. |
#5
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The manual is wrong.
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1964 Tempest Coupe LS3/4L70E/3.42 1964 Le Mans Convertible 421 HO/TH350/2.56 2002 WS6 Convertible LS1/4L60E/3.23 |
#6
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Thanks
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1968 GTO Numbers matching 400 H.O. 4-speed 3:55 1964 T-Bird 46,000 Actual Mile 1928 Model A 2009 Lexus 1981 Dodge D-100 1976 Cadillac Eldorado Convertible 19631/2 Ford Galaxie Fastback |
#7
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There is always one in the crowd at events that claims to know everything. Also beware of wrong info in books and manuals.
Glad to see you searched out people here on a Pontiac Forum with experience that can give you the correct info. Nice looking GTO.
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You never know what I might have that you are looking for. EMAIL me. Also check out my other ads here on PY. Just click on user name to view other ads. USPS Money Orders or Wal-Mart to Wal-Mart money gram wire transfer -preferred payments. If Payment doesn't show up in 3-4 days, I move on to the next person that wants it. Serious Inquiries Only - Shipping Isn't Free. |
#8
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Those guys who walk around claiming to know everything really bother those of us who do! ;-) '68 #16 heads, as mentioned by B-man and others, have the large valves and are a performance head. Torque wins on the street. Pontiac had plenty!
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'68 GTO 4-spd Hardtop (11) '68 GTO Convertible AT (1) '70 LeMans Sport Land of Lakes Muscle Car Classic Facebook Event Facebook Wall (Kurt Smith,Minneapolis) |
#9
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Just checked my manual .. yep it's wrong ... I now remember many years ago when I came across this, when the shop that did the heads mentioned it had 2.11/1.77 .. I was sure I had some super rare exotic experimental Super SD heads Ahhh the days before the internet when you could wonder about a question for weeks.
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#10
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Quote:
On top of what the others already explained - and the other #16 of 1970 - 1968 #16 Heads are basically identical for all practical purposes to the 1969 (#48) and 1970 (#12) RamAir III Heads. aka Damn Good Factory Heads Dual Valve Springs - Guide Plates - Screw In Studs - can't fit a dime between Intake & Exhaust valves. Next time you could pull a reverse stunt on him Tell him they are 1973 #16 SuperDuty Heads , and see what he knows |
#11
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I'd just go with "Last night your mom told me #16 heads were great"
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The Following User Says Thank You to dataway For This Useful Post: | ||
#12
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Has Anyone ever cc'd a set of the small valve #16 head chambers vs the #16 large valve chambers? Are they the same? I have a set of small #16 and have been using 72cc (large valve cc spec i found) in SCR/DCR calculations.
Thanks Frank T |
#13
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Quote:
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1964 Tempest Coupe LS3/4L70E/3.42 1964 Le Mans Convertible 421 HO/TH350/2.56 2002 WS6 Convertible LS1/4L60E/3.23 |
#14
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B-Man, thanks for that link! thats exactly what I needed.
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#15
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Nothing wrong with the #16 heads. From many years of owning Pontiacs (+46 years) I have bumped into a fair number of Pontiac people. No one would have turned down a set of '68 #16 heads.
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#16
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Back in the 1980s I had 3- sets of 1968 16s at once. Ran well. Never owned a small-vlave 1970 16, but seen a set in the 2000s.
Point is those 1968 16s were very-good (great). 1 set had the extra external metal Boss rail as if Air- injection was gonna be added. Well those heads had to go (Sold!). |
#17
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For 20 years I've been sit on a set of #51 heads. 125cc chambers. Each chamber is basically a 5 gallon bucket with valves installed.
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#18
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Put a motor together in 1979 that was in my car until 1998, altho it sat for many years while I was gone working out of state. Never paid to much attention back then what they were other than they had 16 casting numbers on the center exhaust ports. Went to edelbrock heads in the later 90's when going thru the motor again and gave them to my brother to use on his car. He never did get his car together and sold it awhile later. I thought the heads were gone with the car way back then. A month ago I was at his house and seen a set of Pontiac heads sitting in a shed he had and asked him what they were and found out they were my old heads. Had not been touched since I removed them. Got them back from him and was looking at them tonight for casting numbers. Both had the 16 and one had an L137 and the other had an L267. What would this part of the casting number mean? Posting here because I think they may be 1968 Ram air III heads. Thanks for the help in advance.
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1967 GTO, 467 roller motor, e heads ported, tremec T56 magnum 6 speed and 9" done. EZ EFI 2.0 with FAST dual sync distributor and separate nitrous system done. Track is at 4300 ft elevation. so far a best of 11.95@116. Suspension now getting dialed in...tubular front a arms with dual adjustable coil overs HR Parts n stuff rear bar and whole car lowered 3 inches.. |
#19
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L is December...so, December 13th and December 26th of '67 were the casting dates for the heads, which would make them '68 heads.
The '16' heads in '68 were used on several different engines. They are considered 'good' hi performance heads but there is nothing super special about them. They came on the base 350hp 400s as well as some of the high output configurations. No RAIII in '68. The '68 RAII used a different head, '96' that IS special. Round ports for one thing.
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Greg Reid Palmetto, Georgia |
The Following User Says Thank You to Greg Reid For This Useful Post: | ||
#20
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The 1968 RAI engines uses the #31 D-port swirl polished flat valves heads with 1.712" height installed valve springs for the #744 camshaft.
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