[MPKind]

My 455, 6X-8 heads with a RAIV cam installed 4 degrees adv. (Crane 969681) that sat for a decade after initial break in session popped a rocker stud (stock Pontiac) on 5E and buckled the 5I pushrod (Comp Cams #7851 - 9.146"). Both lifters (Comp Cams Hi Energy #852) from #5 popped out and that's that. This occurred recently while test and tune at idle. Rockers are Comp Cams RP1451 roller tip. Already upgraded the studs to 7/16".

The good news is, nothing major broke, the bad news is I discovered 5 of 16 lifter plungers are stuck (3 up and 2 down). I could replace them with the same lifter, which is about the cheapest aftermarket one sold on Summit, or I can upgrade. I think if 5 of 16 went punk it's not worth piecing it back, might as well replace all of them.

Lots of reviews and opinions about various leak down lifters, I could use some help in making a choice. The car is a '65 Cat with a 2.56 Muncie and 3.42 rear gear. Originally dyno'd at 400 hp and 500 ft-lbs, about 9.25 C.R.

[NeighborsComplaint]

With your highway gear, you're going to want a variable duration lifter. If you can't stand the clacking Rhodes lifters, try the Crane Hi-Intensity variable duration lifters. While they aren't quite as effective at shortening the lift and duration as the Rhodes they do tame the idle and low end quite a bit and are very quiet. Crane's QC is very good also, I've never had an issue with a Crane branded valve-train component. I have been running Crane cams, lifters, springs, retainers and locks for many years. without issues.

[Jay S]

If the engine sat and has lifters that seized it would be a good idea to check the valves and make sure none of them are sticking too. Especially on the valve that bent the push rod.

With the compression in the low 9s and a RA4 duplicate a variable duration lifter would be a good idea. But with the 4 speed and 3.42s you could certainly get along fine with regular lifters.

A standard hylift johnson lifter would be my pick in a regular lifter. They are the lifter Rhoads modifies. If you wanted a fairly quiet variable duration lifter the Hylift Johnson R lifter would be comparable to the Crane variable duration lifter. Most everything from Crane seems to be 30 days out for delivery. I don’t understand that, crane is in the same building complex as comp and Lunati lol.

With adjustable valve terrain get a set of VPro or Vmax Rhoads and set the lash tighter for less action and quieter operation(IMHO =best)

In the past the Lunati Micro-trol lifters were a step above the comp hi energy lifters quality wise . At least they were in the past. They had a faster and narrower bleed down rate than the hi energy lifters. The hi tech’s from comp are comps variable duration lifters. Lunati’s micro-trols are comparable to the comp magnums lifters. It is hard to keep up with changes in lifters, things change fast in that industry. We try to stay with the Johnsons based lifters as much as we can, but when forced in a corner for a budget performance lifter choice we use the Lunati micro’s.

[track73]

Try some Marvel Mystery Oil. I have had excellent results With sticky lifters.

[steve25]

If your running stock springs with that Cams .469" lift the that could be why you busted things up!

[MPKind]

Comp Cams 995-16 are installed. 402 lb/in K constant. Stock rocker studs that were original to the heads. Go figure. For less than $50 they could’ve been upgraded to full 7/16” studs.


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[steve25]

The tops of those factory studs necking down to 5/16" is a near guaranteed failure when running over .450" lift if they don't pull out first if there of the pressed in type!

Lesson learned first hand on this, lol!

[MPKind]

They are 6X-8 heads. Screw in.

Things are fine, just asking about lifters so if you have any thoughts please share.


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[John Milner]

I would replace all of them if that many have given you trouble. Unfortunately lifters now are usually not the best quality. I would try to source some Johnson’s or even NOS GM lifters if I could. Rhoads would be good as well, just a bit noisy. Get some big block Chevy rocker studs and nuts when you put it back together. If you haven’t converted the stock studs to these, it would be worth your time and money to do so.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Jay S

With the compression in the low 9s and a RA4 duplicate a variable duration lifter would be a good idea. But with the 4 speed and 3.42s you could certainly get along fine with regular lifters.

A standard hylift johnson lifter would be my pick in a regular lifter. They are the lifter Rhoads modifies. If you wanted a fairly quiet variable duration lifter the Hylift Johnson R lifter would be comparable to the Crane variable duration lifter.

With adjustable valve terrain get a set of VPro or Vmax Rhoads and set the lash tighter for less action and quieter operation(IMHO =best)

We try to stay with the Johnsons based lifters as much as we can, but when forced in a corner for a budget performance lifter choice we use the Lunati micro’s.

If you have the funds and know how to set lifters properly with an adjustable valvetrain go with the Rhoads lifters. Best of both worlds.

I have Rhoads lifters ready to be installed in my 462 engine with E-heads.
I will use one of the older HO racing cams. 1st hydraulic cam in 50 years but
I think the right choice this time.

Tom V.

[MPKind]

I’ve reviewed the Comp Cams application catalog and all the parts match up perfect with that cam grind. So one can conclude the weakest link were the studs. If there were 5 stuck plungers more problems would occur, I think that’s a safe bet.

Just swapped out the studs yesterday to 7/16”.

Push rods are correct length. Wear pattern on the valve tips look perfect. Just need to swap out all the lifters. I’ve heard great comments on the Johnson Hylifts and the Rhoads. I’m thinking either of those will be an upgrade from the Comp Cams 852s.


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[steve25]

I would not order anything just yet as you may need a Cam.

On the Cam lobes that had the lifters with the plungers in the down position it's possible that all of that slop has harmed the base circle of the Cam so I would look at those lobes very closely!

One thing you can do to prove out that those base circles are still good is to install one of the good lifters on them, then adjust them and then Crank the motor over with no plugs in the motor.

That amount of cranking speed should be enough to see the push rod spin if you make a mark on them.

If the base circle is good then every time the lobe kicks the valve open the lifter and the push rod will rotate some.

[lust4speed]

I would think that even if the lifter plungers stuck all the way up that there would not have been piston/valve contact with the RAIV cam and 6X heads. I'm going with Jay S's thoughts on sticking valves.

My son Mark is running the V-Max Rhoads lifters with the Super Lube Groove with the Crower version of the RAIV cam (60919) and only 9.2:1 compression with 62 ported heads and dished pistons in the '65 2+2 and it performs nicely -- and has for 14+ years now. The Rhoads lifters are a quality product which shows up in smaller things like Crower grinding a flat on the side of the HFT lifter for their lube option while Rhoads uses a laser cut channel.

[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

With your highway gear, you're going to want a variable duration lifter. If you can't stand the clacking Rhodes lifters, try the Crane Hi-Intensity variable duration lifters. While they aren't quite as effective at shortening the lift and duration as the Rhodes they do tame the idle and low end quite a bit and are very quiet. Crane's QC is very good also, I've never had an issue with a Crane branded valve-train component. I have been running Crane cams, lifters, springs, retainers and locks for many years. without issues.

All due respect, I certainly don't consider a 3:42 rear gear a 'highway gear'. To me, a highway gear is a 2-series gear, not a mid 3-series.

My '65 GTO has the same trans as the OP (2.56 low gear) and a 3.36 gear out back....with a 389. And it has a much wilder cam than the OP's. I have NO issue getting the car moving with roughly the same gears and same power to weight ratio.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

All due respect, I certainly don't consider a 3:42 rear gear a 'highway gear'. To me, a highway gear is a 2-series gear, not a mid 3-series.

My '65 GTO has the same trans as the OP (2.56 low gear) and a 3.36 gear out back....with a 389. And it has a much wilder cam than the OP's. I have NO issue getting the car moving with roughly the same gears and same power to weight ratio.

Read the 2.56 and "drove right past" the 3.42 gearset. Mea maxima culpa. No variable duration lifter needed with that cam and a 455 if running 1.5 ratio rockers though it can be a bit lumpy.

[MPKind]

I was able to free up the 5 lifters. Just full of oil and hasn’t bled off while the other 11 had. So perhaps I don’t need new lifters after all. But given the RAIV cam and the 9-1/4 CR, what would I gain with installing a Rhoads. I got a pretty flat torque band already. Better idle, yes. More HP at the upper end? Yes or no.


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[Jay S]

I would just run if they freed up.

The vmax and vpro are about the only hft lifters that can add some top end hp. The super lube option is a good attribute for adding some longevity to the cam. FWIW...Vpro super lube is what I would have used to begin with. We tighten or loosen the lash until we like the cams manors.

But, I do not think you would notice the hp increase with your set up, and with the 4 speed I don’t think you really need variable duration lifter all that bad. To notice the hp increase from a v series Rhoads my thinking is it takes more cam, bigger rockers, higher lift and spring pressure, or/and rpms well past 5000.

[MPKind]

I’ll replace the Comp Cams 852s with what? Any suggested upgrades?


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[Jay S]

For an upgrade for performance above a comp 852 the Lunati Micro-trols and the compcams magnums decent for performance cams.

Wanting better quality lifters??? That would be these below:

Hylift Johnson part#A-0951

For higher performance cams (good choice on a RA4 duplicate)

Hylift Johnson A-0951R

For performance cams with adjustable valve terrain

Rhoads Vmax or VPro with superlube option (VPro-street)

Rhoads 9518P-super lube

[MPKind]

Feels like I'm going down a rabbit hole with the valve train project. I called Len Williams today and asked him a couple questions about the parts I have installed. He didn't talk me into or out of Rhoads lifters, but he did mention that I should swap out the springs. Swap out the CC 995 for CC 988, he says that's what he installs in all of his long blocks. The 995 is matched with most Pontiac cam setups in the CC catalog with a few exceptions listing the 988.

Without getting into the weeds, the seat pressure is nearly the same, the open force for the 995 is 304lbs +/-, while the 988s are at 225lbs +/- at open.

I'm already going to upgrade lifters, but I have to make sure the rods I have are within tolerance. Tracking down Hylift Johnson A-951s is proving difficult, but I'll find them. Seems there's junk lifters out there for the unsuspecting buyer.