Roller cam?

[BDB]

Who is runniong a roller on the street?
Pro's & con's? I know about the cost. I want to know about springs and checking lash and that kind of stuff. I plan on doing this I just am looking for some good advice sa to what not to do or things to remember.

B

[BDB]

Who is runniong a roller on the street?
Pro's & con's? I know about the cost. I want to know about springs and checking lash and that kind of stuff. I plan on doing this I just am looking for some good advice sa to what not to do or things to remember.

B

[Junkyard Dog]

I am about to, but I haven't yet. Maybe Steve C. will check in, as he runs one. Several others responded to my question on this some time back and basically said the "issues" were overblown. Check into Crower lifters with the HIPPO option.

[tom s]

I run 2 cars with tight lash street rollers.I check the lash maybe once a year.I put in the POB dist. gear,no wear yet.I run close to 200lb seat pressure..660 lift cams.245-252 duration.

[tom s]

sorry Wade and Mark!BOP!Tom

[PONTIAC DUDE]

A tight lash roller will have less issues on the street and easier on valve train related parts.
Lighter valve train parts require less spring pressure resulting in less strain and wear. http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Tom , you dislexic. LOL. http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Yes the BOP gear is the way to go.

I have only run it with 12 passes and 800lb open pressure springs, but pulled the dist and swear it looks like I took it out of the pac.
I keep them on the shelf. Great item.

[Bill Bolin]

I have run a roller cam on the street in my car all year and no problems. I run .024 lash and have over .600 lift and 268/276 duration @ .050. I have run a roller cam on the street in another motor with more lift & duration without problems but it didn't have the miles on it that this motor has gotten.

[tom s]

Dude,Pontiac should always be first anyway!Tom

[Rholmes]

Tom could you share some info on your street roller combination?I recently purchased Crower's rollers and haven't quite made of my mind regarding a "street grind".Plans are to replace my present 406 engine with a 455/either 96's or KRE heads.Engine with be going into a stock bodied 68 GTO with 3.90 rear and 400 auto.Did you brace the bore?What about street manners and size of exhaust?This car gets street driven maybe 2k/year,including 6/8 times 1/8 mile tract.My goal is to run 7.3-7.5 1/8 mile times.I had looked at similar cams as yours without as much lift.Any info you could share would be appreciated.Thanks,Roger.

[tom s]

The cam in my 421 tempest is a comp cams hyd roller grind with solid rollers set at 6 thou.It is 245-252@50 11LC 400 lobe lift with 1.65 rockers.The car has a Tremic TKO with 3.90 gears.It has great street manners.
The other is a custom BOP 230-240ish(cant remember exact)Maybe Ken Crochie can remember and jump in.I think it is a 114LC with the lift in the 600plus range.It is set at 10 thou.It is in a 389CI RA V in my 69 T/A.It has a 3.55 rear with a wide muncie.It drivers great,put out 463HP,runs my power brakes and is a dream to drive.I also have a 250-260ish in a 455 RA V that im looking for a car to put it in and have not driven yet but from the dyno numbers it looks very streetable,also a hyd roller with solids set tight lash.I know Steve has a street roller from Comp that he is running.Tom

[tom s]

also the duration at 200 is not radical enough to require a lifter brace.ALL my cars are stick shift cars so the auto throws a complete diff set of manners to the motor.Tom

[Steve C.]

I think the last time I used a hyd flat tappet cam in one of my engine combos was 1992.
Since then it's been solid rollers, mostly Ultradyne grinds when they were still in business, the current street motor has a Comp cams solid roller.
Comp, and others, can design a roller specifically for street use, these street rollers offer unique approach ramps allowing the use of lower seat pressure to assure long life. This seat pressure is determined by valve/retainer weight, engine rpm and life expectancy of components before replacement is required. For the most part 180 to 200 lbs.is common for most modest street performance applications. With today's ever-increasing spring technology look for lower spring pressures in the future, and reduction in overall component weight. Anytime you can reduce weight at the valve will genarally lenghten the interval between component replacement, especially where valve springs are concerned. Also helping to that extent have been advances in metallurgy, which have led to the development of much better valve springs. These springs can help make a roller-cammed engine live a long time on the street. One example would be the "beehive" spring re-introduced by Comp Cams. These springs are generaly associated with hyd roller cams and their lower spring pressures, but it won't be long before they have a single ovate beehive spring that can run solid rollers.
Something to keep in mind.
Also I would highly recommend having your valve Springs performance coated. Coated valve springs have more lubricity under all conditions and it helps extend component life.
My biggest fear.... when a needle bearing comes apart inside a precision built engine, I have been told it's not a pretty thing! So far this has never happpened to me, but then I don't drive my car thousands and thosands of miles every year.
You would think that the most abuse would be from high engine speeds and spring pressures, but no. Most lubrication for the tappets comes from splash lube, so at slow speeds (and street idle) very little oil gets to the needle bearings. That lack of oil means there's little to no lubrication and cooling effects on the cam, lifters, and springs. And since all these parts tie together, if one's not getting enough oil, they will all suffer. On a street motor make sure you keep the valvetrain wet. Restricting the oil supply may work in a drag motor, but street motors need oil. As mentioned most major cam companies have further addressed the low-speed oiling problems by adding a pressurized oiling groove in their street roller lifters that direct oil to the cam and roller lifter bearings. When it comes to the use of solid roller lifters for the most part we have exclusively been using Crower products. Their system to maintain a constant stream of pressurized oil to the lifters roller bearings is a option called "Hippo" (hi pressure pin oiler).
Valve lash concerns.... we check the lash maybe once or twice a year. Today, there's a trend toward laziness and no one wants to adjust his valves anymore! It has been written that typically valves will go out of adjustment for two reasons. Either something's wearing in the valvetrain and is about to break, which creates more lash, or thermal expansion increases the lash when the engine's hot, which causes someone to think that their valves are out of adjustment. This is most normally the case. The truth is that if you've proberly locked down the rocker arm's adjusting nut, they shouldn't move, ever. And as long as your checking your valve lash with the engine at a constant temp every time, they should all be within spec.
If your afraid of checking the lash once or twice a year, then roller cams are not for you.
On the distributor gear thing... remember distributer gears are designed to be sacrifical. They're easier to replace than cam gears, so they're engineered to go first in the event of failure. Just remember gears won't live a long, healthy life unless they're properly matched and set up. Treat it like a ring-and-pinion installation. How long should they last?... again, most typically don't drive their solid roller cammed cars thousands and thousands of street miles. So treat it like a maintance item and check it once or twice a years when you check you valve lash. It should go that long if properly set up.
We recently switched to a BOP composite dist gear, it has only been in use for about 500 miles so I can't report on longevity but from what I understand it looks to be a great product. Considering the price of a bronze gear that might need replacing every few thosand miles or so it appears to be cost effective if you drive alot on the street.

[Tom McQueen]

Solid roller with a BOP distributor gear here as well. No problems. Fairly mild tight lash grind (.014"/.018" lash).

[Chris Petersen]

Steve, are you running a lifter bore brace?

When is one needed? Is it when lift hits a certain point, or when the angle of the ramp is increased?

[Steve C.]

Chris- my street motor has no lifter bore bracing, the cam has only 170 degrees duration at 0.200" valve lift. Rule of thump suggests you don't need lifter bore bracing untill 200 or more degrees duration at .200" valve lift.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

For the simple price of the brace. And a person is spending how much on a roller cam, lifter and springs, etc, etc compared to what a brace cost? http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

For the sake of $200.00 or less.

Ramp design isn't the only thing that effects the lifter bore, but also the spring rate that loads and holds the lifter on the cam. http://pysales.com/images/sweat.gif http://pysales.com/images/sweat.gif


Other factors, on why i would run one with a solid roller.

Cheap insurance compared to the price to replace the parts already bought.

Lifter bore core shift making the casting thinner on one side compared to the other.

Age of 25 year old blocks and not knowing the temps, abuse it was subjected to.

Valve seat bounce when springs start to go away and create havoc with the bore.

Those run-a-way rpms. http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Questions on PY & CP on....... why did the valley lifter area break as I was only
running a ...............

Plus adds a little more support to the whole weak valley block casting anyway.

Less hot oil being throw up into the valley pan head recess area, thus less oil drain back issues.

Just my personal opinion but, Can anyone tell me a downside to using a brace with any solid roller.

[tom s]

Ken,your right,I have just been lucky because 3 of my blocks are RA V blocks and dont need them at all.If I was racing a stock block with the 650 plus lift and 700-800 open pressure,I would have one.Tom

[Mr. P-Body]

The lobes Steve is speaking of are available from Comp in their catelog for small block Chevy engines. We've had some Pontiac cams ground with the XE solid roller lobes. GREAT results!
I would recommend the Crower lifters with the pressure-fed wheels for a street application. We've seen many failures (in Chevys, mind you), where the engine was idled too much, and not driven at a high enough RPM to maintain the "splash" lube to racing lifters. The needles take a beating. And Steve's right. It isn't pretty when a lifter goes away.