1979 TA 403/455 SWAP

[black1979transam]

I HAVE A 1979 Y-84 CAR BUT IT CAME WITH THE 403 OLDSMOBILE WITH AUTO TRANNY. THIS CAR IS NOT A SHOW CAR JUST A WEEKEND CAR, I HAVE A PONTIAC 455 I REMOVED FROM A RUSTED OUT 76 PARTS CAR.

SHOULD I LEAVE THE 403 OR SWAP TO THE 455?

Black 1979 S/E, My money pit

[79TransamFirebird]

go with the 455, it can handle more punch than the 403, or so i've heard.....but that exactly what im doin to my car this summer.....i just need to find the right engine.

[gold79TA]

I really like the 455 in these heavy cars.

[gold79TA]

Don't forget ...you will need shaker stuff from a pontiac 400.

[Bandit79403Dave]

KEEP THE 403...shoot me an e-mail if you want to know how to make them haul...people seem to think they are turds and they are usually the people who have never touched them or haven't a clue on how to properly prep them.

How does 12s all day long or even 11s with a stock bottom end sound??? http://pysales.com/images/evil.gif You'd think suicide wouldn't ya...got video that will show otherwise. http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Let me know brother.

[Goldie]

go with the 455 it is so much better...

[79TransamFirebird]

bandit79403dave whats your email. tell me somethin about the 403. im plannin on pullin it out too.email me some info at [email protected]

[general]

Bandit, drop me a line also.
Bob

[black1979transam]

Bandit-Dave,

I would be interested in any information that would make my 403 olds worth keeping. Any information would be appreciated, Thanks.

[email protected]

[mikeb]

I have done this swap on my 79 bird and it wasn't too terrible. You need pontiac engine/frame mounts (mine came off a 73 firebird in a junkyard) and will have to drill bolt holes in the frame for the mounts. Trans & starter will bolt right up. Will need to get a complete pontiac alt/ps pump/brackets/pulleys setup (mine came off a 73 grand prix). 403 shaker will not work. Also will need headers or pontiac manifolds & exhaust work. Existing engine bay wiring works just fine on a pontiac.

Before I did the swap I did do some work on the original 403 (intake, cam, headers, 455 heads, etc) and it was responsive to those changes.

Personally I really wanted a pontiac mill under the hood so I made the swap.

[Brian Baker]

Mike, you caused yourself alot of unneccessary work with the engine mounts.

The 400-Pontiac and 403-Olds in '79 used the same frame mount (the "clamshell") and they're mounted on the frame in the same location for either engine. When installing a 455 (or 400) you need to just get the proper engine side of the mount.

403's can be built to run hard, but they still suffer from a weak block (windowed mains), heads that flow worse than a Pontiac (unless you adapt bigger Olds heads or purchase E-heads), and a lack or aftermarket parts availability.

A 455 with unported d-ports (say, 6X's?) and a R.A. IV cam will be pump gas friendly and make enough power to get you into the 12's reliably.

[mikeb]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian Baker:
Mike, you caused yourself alot of unneccessary work with the engine mounts.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah well live and learn http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I did this swap almost 20 years ago and I was guessing my way through it at the time, looking at stuff in the junkyard & mixing & matching.

[Bandit79403Dave]

Sorry guys,
I have been away from the computer for awhile...didn;t even realize I had people interested in the 403 Mods...if you are interested in 403 hop-ups please e-mail me at [email protected]'ll give you contact info on who to talk to and what you can do to make these gusy rock and roll...also, keep an eye on Popular Hot Rodding magazine...the Engine Masters Challenge...how does +700 hp @ 6300 rpm with a 403 sound???? http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://pysales.com/images/evil.gif

Oh btw...11s are cake, I'll give you some phone numbers to contact and can help you out myself.

As for head flow...the 4a heads on the 11 sec motor seemed to do just fine. http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And speaking of aftermarket parts...um...just wait a few more weeks...Edelbrock Olds heads will be a thing of the past...the gentleman I am working with and myself have a little "surprise" in store for the 403 Olds crowd that will make you crap...LOL...oh yeah...how does a SBO Victor sound??? Tooling is done on that too...woohoo!!!

If you guys are interested in 403 info...shoot me and e-mail: [email protected]

Dave (Bandit)

[Brian Baker]

How long do the bottom ends in those things last at 700 HP? What crank? Rods? Caps?

[Bandit79403Dave]

Well...that's what I will find out in roughly a two months...after that I will know once and for all...that I am insane and that what we did to the bottom end of this block, did or did not work...I'll definitely keep ya posted bud.

Thanks,
Dave (Bandit)

[Brian Baker]

What mods were done? What crank? What rods? What caps?

[1Bad78zam]

Bandit, I have been talking with your "contact"
and just finished my 403 http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Cranked her up today and man did she roar. I figure we're at about 9.5:1 CR. Can't wait to see what she will do. Have to fix the brakes first. It is going to take all she's got to shut it down http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gifAll you guys that are curious about the 403 mods need to listen to Bandit. This ain't your dad's Oldsmobile http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Brian Baker]

I'm trying to listen to Bandit, but so far he hasn't said anything. I've asked twice now "what mods?" in as many days and have not gotten an answer yet.

[mike nixon]

my question to the 403 is what is the cost in comparison to building a pontiac. it's been my experience that with an olds it takes more money to get the same performance as a pontiac of the same displacement.

mike

[Bandit79403Dave]

Sorry about that guys...I don't get to surf the web that much because I work two jobs and am a full-time college student going for my BS in Mechanical Engineering.

Well, to answer the quick one...cost...I built my 12 sec 403 for $4000 about 3 years ago...ported heads, port-matched intake, unrowdy cam (crane 216/228 @ .050 on a 112 LSA..nothing special. Stock 403 rods, nodular 350 crank...replacement pistons that are about .025" in the hole so it was in the mid 8s compression-wise. B&M holeshot converter, 3.73 gears...TH350...as I said nothing special...still together still rocking and rolling.

Now Bri...sorry I didn't reply, but if you e-mailed like before I would have shot ya right back. For the "Serious 403" I am not going to tell you what I did...you will have to wait until September when the Engine Masters Challenge goes down. There are other gentlemen entering this competition for Olds who I know and I am already at a "disadvantage" with the motor I am using...or so I am being told. I will say this though...You will have never seen a combo like this before....I guarrantee it. These heads are seriosu business as well as the rest of the motor...we have addressed issues with the reciprocating assembly as well as the bottom end of the block as a whole. There will be a girdle on this guy and it wasn't made by Mondello. You haven't seen the intake yet, nor the heads...trust me...I think we will do quite well. After the EMC is completed I will be tearing this motor down and assembling a tamer combo for my TA since the amount of power this motor is capable of could literally tear the side of the block out because of torquing...I really don't want to put in front/mid plates nor do I want to go thru the hassle of 9 sec chassis cert. If I am lucky enough, I may have a high 10s version of this motor at the Atco Paul Spotts Pontiac Day...Although that is really pushing it.

As far as what the 403 is capable of with a FACTORY STOCK UNTOUCHED bottom end with worked of 4A heads: I have video of it in a '80 Cutlass running 11.70s all day long for 8 years...only reason it is apart now is because those "sh*tty" 403 heads were powering a 470 Olds to low 10s in the same car.

I love to discuss more on the EMC 403, but honestly brother, I cannot say much about this EMC motor before the challenge...I do not want to give away anything. And plus, and this is meant in the most respectful way possible...I think it is a little assinine to give away all this information after it has taken me years to get develop it and I have yet to fully test it. I am not simply talking monetary gain here, it is much more. Once this thing gets significant dyno time and have been proven to work...then I think I could safely say that we have done something that no one else has been able to do...we put our name on the map...I can gladly give you 11 sec combos...that's fine...but this EMC motor has $105,000 prize money riding on it. I will say this though...I will have less than $10,000 into the motor when all is said and done....this is obviously the price of the motor excluding dyno time...etc....

Thanks for the interest and take care,
Dave (Bandit)

[Brian Baker]

I understand fully your not wanting to give away any "trade secrets". What name will this engine be entered under in this contest, so we know who to look for?

[Bandit79403Dave]

It should be under FCR Performance...possibly with my name as well, but FCR will definitely be there.

I believe the posting date is set for the 15th of May. As far as us being a definite entry, well there is no such thing, but I am hopeful that because we have such a weird combo that we will be there. I have heard many rumors already, I just hope in the end that I make it there. I think we have a great shot...but oh well. Either way, I will have one kick ass motor!!! http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Badbird69]

Dave

I flogged Oldsmobiles for many years and the 403 was one of my favorites with it's big bore/short stroke combination. Yes, it was a real stone in stock configuration with 8:1 or less compression, poor heads w/heavy valve rotators, heavy cast pistons, emissions cam and restrictive exhaust manifolds. Power would drop off after 4500 rpm and it would be all done by 5000. But it responded well to tried and true hop-up remedies making 12 and 11 second results very attainable. I usually tossed the 4A heads in favor of the #6 or #7 heads as it was an easy way to gain 9:1 compression. Of course we had to install the bigger valves from the 4A heads with a little port cleanup as well. Although the windowed main webbing looked really wimpy, I never broke one. A few years back I had a hellacious nitrous explosion on startup (my own dumb fault). It bent every rod and broke every piston but the "cast" crank and wimpy block survived. So I'm excited to see the results of your engineering efforts with this much maligned engine. Your "secret" heads wouldn't have anything to do with Glenn Knowlton, would they? Good luck and best wishes for PHR EMC '04

[79SE]

Are you using headers or exhaust manifolds? I have had others say that there are some clearance issues but none have mentioned anything about removing the a/c box. I am also in the process of the Olds 403 to 455 swap and am hoping I don't have to remove my A/C. Thanks.

[Jaggs79transam]

Flow tech A HOLLEY BRAND PRODUCT makes a header that will fit you may have some slight mods to make for them.

Order them for a 1978 trans am with the 403
3 inch collector with a bolt on 2 and 1/4 reducer comes with them

[Jaggs79transam]

Just a follow up.

Got the headers in the car. they fit barely!!!!!!!!

Modified the a/c box cut it out and fiberglass patched it.

(I am removing mine anyways) but it can be kept!

[Bandit79403Dave]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badbird69:
Dave

I flogged Oldsmobiles for many years and the 403 was one of my favorites with it's big bore/short stroke combination. Yes, it was a real stone in stock configuration with 8:1 or less compression, poor heads w/heavy valve rotators, heavy cast pistons, emissions cam and restrictive exhaust manifolds. Power would drop off after 4500 rpm and it would be all done by 5000. But it responded well to tried and true hop-up remedies making 12 and 11 second results very attainable. I usually tossed the 4A heads in favor of the #6 or #7 heads as it was an easy way to gain 9:1 compression. Of course we had to install the bigger valves from the 4A heads with a little port cleanup as well. Although the windowed main webbing looked really wimpy, I never broke one. A few years back I had a hellacious nitrous explosion on startup (my own dumb fault). It bent every rod and broke every piston but the "cast" crank and wimpy block survived. So I'm excited to see the results of your engineering efforts with this much maligned engine. Your "secret" heads wouldn't have anything to do with Glenn Knowlton, would they? Good luck and best wishes for PHR EMC '04 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey there,
Nope...they aren't Knowlton's heads. http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif We aren't sure whether or not we will win, since it is impossible to ever know that, but I will say this, with the amount of power this thing is boasting, if there is anyone at the competition that does beat us, they deserve to win http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Take care,
Dave (Bandit)

[Bandit79403Dave]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jaggs79TransAm:

The main problem with the 403 is the windowed mains forget the heads and what not if you do not address this problem you will blow the bottom end out a 5000 rpms.

Now the solution! mondello twister makes a girdle for the 403 olds motor WHOOOOhHOOOO.

This girdle supports 800hps and up according to the web site. Now this girdle is about 3000$

You can however get a girdle for 300$ that will support up to 600hp.

and lets face it 600 ponies under your hood is not a daily driver.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hey there,
Ran a stock, UNTOUCHED, bottom-end 403 with ridiculous worked 4A heads 11.70s at One hundred-teens...time slips and video for proof.

Windowed mains never cracked, never flinched, block had a core shift or so I recently found out http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Mondo's girdle is TRASH!!! DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY OR TIME ON THAT GARBAGE. They used friggin' woodruff keys to hold the damn thing together. There are much better girdles available at a better price...in actuality, you can make your own, better and WAY CHEAPER than the Mondo girdle. Save yourself the abuse.

As for the daily driver status of a 600 horse motor...well...how does 12 inches of vacuum at idle, and much more horsepower all in before 6200 rpm sound??? It is happening as we speak... http://pysales.com/images/boxing.gif http://pysales.com/images/evil.gif

Take care,
Bandit (Dave)

[imknowasdave]

hey whats goion on my names dave i have a 1979 firebird and was wondering on what u recomend for the 403 i was thinkin about a elderbrock preformer intake, cam from mondelo, set of #5 heads 3 ang job with the bigger valves, roller rockers and lifters, i was wondering what eles u think would be good thanx for ur help

[Bandit79403Dave]

Well if you are interested in keeping your shaker shakin' then the Performer is a good intake for that...with a little work that intake can take you well into the 12s...As far as the Mondo cam and #5 heads, don't waste for time. A gentleman by the name of Terry Fritsch, owner and operator of FCR Performance, offer a set of KB pistons that bring the pistons to zero deck with with out even touching the block. You wil have to mill the living dog crap out of those #5 heads to get the so-called 9.5:1 compression. The only cast replacement pistons currently available set the piston about .040 in the hole, giving you an anemic 8.4:1 compression at best. The KBs, with larger valves in the 4a heads (403 original heads), some port work and a particular Ultradyne flat tappet (can be remade by Lunati now) cam will make this thing sound BAD ASS and will rip mid 12s ALL DAY long. Plus it will still have plenty of street manners. Of course, you could go even further, but I wouldn't want to entice you too much http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Take care,
Dave (Bandit)

[Jaggs79transam]

Hey bandit,

Sorry I haven't been here for a while, just seen the post. I am VERY interested in knowing how that olds setup works (heads intake ect.....) I put the 455 olds in mine and you talk about a tight fit, and maybe even more trouble than it's worth. whew. I want to build my 403 up and put it back in (matching numbers you know)The 455 will go into another T/A of course.
thanks any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

[79SE]

Just an update on my 403 to Olds 455 swap in my 79 Trans Am. The motor and trans are in.Everything fits well.There is about 2 1/2 inches between my Moroso 7 qt.oil pan and the cross member,nice room on the sides( I used WZ exhaust manifolds) and the only tight spot is at the rear of the passenger side valve cover and the a/c box. There is about 1/2 inch room here which should be enough. Although the last spark plug in that corner is tight, I can get my hand on it.

[rocketformula]

i glad to see that there is a way to build up the 403. now if i build up my 403 to 400hp can i add a 100hp shot of nitrous? some people do not like the idea of it but i love nitrous its the best power adder out there for me.

[Jaggs79transam]

Hey all,

I know this is an old post but I'm updating anyways LOL

JUST LISTEN TO DAVE.

Dude my 403 with your tips and tricks applied is freakin mad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have learned much since my last posts.

I am still running the 455 with the 403 bagged and ready to go in when I blow the 455 up.

I will say 2 more words before I go "FRAME TIES"

Thanks for all the help Dave

I am but a grasshopper and you are the jedi master! LOL

[Lee]

LMAO!!

Ask Dave who it was that talked HIM into keeping the 403 in HIS car!

Dave, how did the motor do?

Lee

[Bad Karma]

So you said a 350 crank. its a destroked motor which means its meant to rev high right?

[Lee]

On Olds motors, the 350 has the same stroke as a 330 and a 403. They are basically interchangeable, you have to have them properly balanced.

Lee

[Bandit79403Dave]

Here's some pics of my 403...e-mail away with questions if you got them...

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/699000-699999/699737_1_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/699000-699999/699737_3_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/699000-699999/699737_33_full.jpg

BanditDave

[Jaggs79transam]

Dave,

I think you just answered them all . LOL