Fiberglass front end installation

[twooldgoats]

A couple of weeks ago I ordered a complete fiberglass one-piece front end (including the installation kit) and doors from VFN for my '64 GTO racecar. I'm currently running mid-tens and I decided to put the car on a diet to improve those times. I'm interested in hearing from anyone who has installed one of these front ends. I'm currently running a more or less stock front end with the inner fenders removed and a fiberglass hood and bumper.

Will the one-piece front end replace the core support or is it just a matter of modifying the core support to fit? I would like to eliminate as much of the sheet metal as possible while retaining the current (stock-size) aluminum radiator I'm using.

Also, has anyone tried using the fake headlights VFN offers? I'm trying to keep the car as stock-appearing as possible.

Any advice would be appreciated. I've found very little in books or magazines. Thanks.

Jim

[twooldgoats]

A couple of weeks ago I ordered a complete fiberglass one-piece front end (including the installation kit) and doors from VFN for my '64 GTO racecar. I'm currently running mid-tens and I decided to put the car on a diet to improve those times. I'm interested in hearing from anyone who has installed one of these front ends. I'm currently running a more or less stock front end with the inner fenders removed and a fiberglass hood and bumper.

Will the one-piece front end replace the core support or is it just a matter of modifying the core support to fit? I would like to eliminate as much of the sheet metal as possible while retaining the current (stock-size) aluminum radiator I'm using.

Also, has anyone tried using the fake headlights VFN offers? I'm trying to keep the car as stock-appearing as possible.

Any advice would be appreciated. I've found very little in books or magazines. Thanks.

Jim

[Ron]

I also have a complete front end for my Firebird. I does not have a core support or inner fenders. The front end can be tilted up or completely removed.

[ErikW]

I think you are going to be disappointed with the weight difference on the front end compared to the amount of work it is going to take to install the front end and make it look respectable. The doors might be worth it though. On the front ends I have installed I just fabricated a tubular radiator support out of small diameter chrome moly that also held the front end on. I'll see if I can dig up some pictures. Did one on a 69 GTO (Currently Wayne Garrison's Judge) and a 70 GTO. On the 70 I installed the factory headlamps & bezels, marker lights and grilles. Looked really nice. Good Luck.

Erik

[twooldgoats]

Erik,

I would appreciate pictures. I'm currently at 3300# with me in the car and I'm hoping to get to 3100# initially and eventually under 3000#. I'll save a few pounds by removing the mufflers, bumper brackets, hood hinges, hood prop and replacing the hinged hood with a pin-on. I've thought about tubular a-arms, but they don't seem to be worth the expense as a weight-saving move only. I don't want to give up my old, heavy GM discs either.

It sounds like my best bet will be to remove the core support altogether and hang the grills, etc from the fiberglass.

I'm concentrating on front end weight now. I need the weight in the back over those narrow 11" slicks. http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jim

[Ron]

Jim,

A few thoughts;

The tubular arms will provide a small weight reduction and if you purchase the arms that provide better caster then the car will be easier and safer to control at high speeds.

You want to close off all the openings in the front end. No air can come in from the grills, lights, etc.

Get rid of the radiator core support. It is heavy.

Aftermarket disc brakes, such as Willwood lightweight brakes will save 40-50 pounds.

Lexan will provide extra weight saving.

You want to accomplish two goals in my opinion;

1. You want a total weight reduction for better ET and MPH.

2. You want to remove weight from the front end to get a better weight transfer to the rear to better enable the car to hook up on a small tire.

Jim Wangers Ponte Carlo runs 8's at 155 MPH on a 11 inch tire and stock suspension. All steel with the exception of the hood. Weight is one subject but the correct roll cage, suspension, and design is another subject you should consider.

[twooldgoats]

Ron,

Thanks for the suggestions. I've already got Lexan all the way around, but not the tubular A-arms or Wilwood brakes. I hesitate to replace the brakes because the ones I have work so well. The weight saving is very tempting, though. Are they a bolt-on?

I agree completely on the two goals: overall weight reduction and front-end weight reduction. I have a full cage and solid body mounts already. I didn't get a fiberglass deck lid yet, because I want to concentrate the weight loss in the front end area.

The new post-coupe doors from VFN mention they are designed to let air through, though I'll have to wait to see the doors to know what they mean by that. I had planned to keep the stock grills for cooling purposes and even open up the bottom of the front end to let air in. It gets mighty hot out here in the summer! I do plan to eliminate the core support ciompletely, if possible.

We've got one more test-n-tune here at SIR on the 14th that I want to hit, then the car goes back into my garage for a couple of months.

Jim

[Mike S]

I wish I would have went with a one piece front end on my 67. I decided not to so it would look stock and still have working headlights. It actually would have been cheaper.
Right now I am mounting fiberglass fenders. What a pain. Had to make headlight buckets out of fiberglass becaues they didn't have them. Also had to re-enforce the big part of the fender. I made a core support out of .050 aluminum, which came out great. Total weight saveings was 67lbs hardly seems worth all the work. Let us know on your progress.
Mike S

[BVR421]

Jim, you are welcome to come over and see the structure on the front of my bird, very light and takes care of all mounting points for the front of the fenders and pin-on hood.
I didnt built it but its simple enough that I could. That means its REAL simple!

Im close to TanqueVerde and Sabino
Im here all the time
bvr421@juno.com
cell 801-557-4098

[nhrae402]

i had a vfn front installed on my 67 lemans. got rid of the core support and made one out of alum. angle. car is down to 2880 empty. lexan except for windshield and alum. floor from back of drivers seat to rear bumper. steel doors. we lost 300 pounds with just the front end install.

[twooldgoats]

BVR421,

I'll take you up on your offer. I'll call you in the next couple of days. I've been curious about your car ever since I first noticed you posting. I thought maybe I'd see you out at the track.

dfwracer,

I hope to lose 300 # also. That would put it right at 3000 with me in the car. The '64 post coupe is supposed to be the lightest GTO made, so maybe with that start I can get it down that far.

Jim

[Ron]

Air coming into the engine compartment is a large air brake. Seal off the grill openings, lights, etc and then fabricate something that looks like the grills or headllights etc.

[ventura7211]

Crude but effective way to retain the stock looks but keep air from passing thru this area would be lexan or other clear material, behind the grills and the use of clear silicone around seems in the body such as headlights etc. I would/have sealed the cowl vents on my car also. http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Steve Barcak]

Hi Jim,
My bother bought a 69 'glass tilt in 1972 and put it on his '69 Judge ( imagine doing that to a 3 year old car !), it had a 428 with roller cam, auto and a 4.88 rear. It was one of the fastest street cars in Phx at that time. It was well known to pull wheel stands on Central ave street racing and criusing! The glass tilt, no doubt, helped it to do that. The car was an animal.
On my 15th birthday I bought it off of him in '75 and used it on my '69 all through high school, it was my very first car part and I have it to this day. It was the coolest thing. It took a ton of weight off of the front of the car, it cornered, braked and accelerated better. Another big bonus was the ease to work on the motor with the tilt. I built a simple radiator mount out of alum channel. I later ran this front end on the street in the late 80s on another car. It is removable with 2 bolts. It makes the car so much easiler to work on. The '65 Tempest funny I am building will be built this way too. I also have a '66 temp all glass with a tilt front.
It will make your car easier to work on, lighter in the front to transfer weight better, brake better and make your car distinctive. There seems to be a lot of '64 GTO/Tempest race cars around but, I haven't seen one with a tilt. That would be cool. There are pics on my site, I will try to post one here. good luck with it. Steve www.pontiacheaven.org (http://www.pontiacheaven.org)

[Half-Inch Stud]

Steve, ANYBODY,

Is there a way or KIT to convert individual glass fenders hood, nose, (and valance?) into a 1 piece tilt front-end?

I am at the point of needing to know.
Thanks in advance.
HIS

[Half-Inch Stud]

Steve,

I see the front wheel wells are not on your car.

MY front wheelwells are on and rather rigid. Makes me want to rest the glass fenders onto the wheelwells while "down". Street/Strip car.

HIS

[ventura7211]

Personally, I don't like the tilt front ends, to me its like the fiberglass wheel flares, throwbacks to the 70's. http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif If I were to run a 2 piece front end, the hood would come off between rounds and then if I need to do something that would need the extra room the whole front clip would pull off the car and sit either in front of the car if there is room or in the trailor. Just a matter of personal preference as I do not like the clips that people leave the front solid and don't put the lights and grills back in. http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Ron]

If you don't have a complete front end you must fiberglass the pieces together for form a one piece front end.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Well yea. After paint, I would fasten the fenders to the hood, Bumper to the Fenders & hood. And tighten.

I wonder about the Valence being part of the tilt.

I figure on the headlamps staying on the Rad-Support...where they belong. The grills would be fixed to the Front bumper. I'd loose the front bump brackets in a hurry.

Is there a tilt-conversion kit?...JEGS?

HIS

[Ron]

I believe there are kits available. Try VFN.com or usbodysource.com

[Half-Inch Stud]

Tanks!

[Poncho Walt]

posted November 04, 2004 11:51 AM
"I think you are going to be disappointed with the weight difference on the front end compared to the amount of work it is going to take to install the front end and make it look respectable. The doors might be worth it though. On the front ends I have installed I just fabricated a tubular radiator support out of small diameter chrome moly that also held the front end on. I'll see if I can dig up some pictures. Did one on a 69 GTO (Currently Wayne Garrison's Judge) and a 70 GTO. On the 70 I installed the factory headlamps & bezels, marker lights and grilles. Looked really nice. Good Luck."

Erik

Hey Erik, I am looking to replace my core support on my 69 GTO bracket car for next year and I could use some pics to if you have some.My set up is individual pieces on the fenders, bolt on hood ect.Any info on the build material ect. would be useful.If anyone else has ideas or advice I would welcome it. Thanks, Poncho Walt.

[screamingchief]

Here's some pictures of my 70 gto that i hope will help you out. I found this car on this site so I feel obligated to help with the cause. Now all I need is to figure out how to post them...the main frount mounting bar slides into trimmed and notched frame rail and radiator is mounted seperately, back is held on by zuus fasteners.

[screamingchief]

more pics

[screamingchief]

had to reduce file size I'll try this again...

[screamingchief]

had to reduce file size, try this again...

[screamingchief]

more...

[screamingchief]

front end...

[screamingchief]

another pic...

[twooldgoats]

screamingchief,
Thanks for the pictures. That's exactly what I was looking for--simple and light. That looks very doable for my '64. I'm still waiting for the pieces. I hope to have them within a month.

Jim

[Half-Inch Stud]

screamingchief,

YEA, Thank you for that inside support bar picture. That's looks to be a fine approach for my 68 with A/C.

Me thinking that a second set of Lower Sway Bar mounts might be my a Street/Strip approach instead of the notching effort.

HIS