1969 Parisienne convertible

[Canuckbltponcho]

I just bought a 69 Parisenne Convertible from another individual, who bought two pontiacs from a body shop in British Columbia. (He is keeping the 69 Lemans). I bought the car basicaly Whole. Body done, good carpet, new top. There are a lot of other issues to contend with, before it is road safe. (then the interior).
In the late 70's I owned a 1962 Bonneville convertible, which I loved dearly. Beautiful 389 tri power. I owned Heaven and it was all Pontiac.
I was foolish back then, and had to sell her to pay lawyers for traffic violations.
I want my kids to enjoy Rag top summer holidays in the mountains the way I did, so I looked for another drop top Poncho.
First problem I have is, what in the heck suspension parts are used in these Canadian Built units!? I want to change complete front end parts, all four coil springs and trailing arm bushings. The disk / drum brakes look good.
I ask the parts guys what they use, and the say pontiac. I think, oh good, but I just don't trust them. Why woulg GM make these things in Canada with Chevy (too BAD) drive trains, chevy wheel base (?), and then bring PONTIAC front ends and Springs? Any help sorting this out would be greatly appreciated.

[Canuckbltponcho]

I just bought a 69 Parisenne Convertible from another individual, who bought two pontiacs from a body shop in British Columbia. (He is keeping the 69 Lemans). I bought the car basicaly Whole. Body done, good carpet, new top. There are a lot of other issues to contend with, before it is road safe. (then the interior).
In the late 70's I owned a 1962 Bonneville convertible, which I loved dearly. Beautiful 389 tri power. I owned Heaven and it was all Pontiac.
I was foolish back then, and had to sell her to pay lawyers for traffic violations.
I want my kids to enjoy Rag top summer holidays in the mountains the way I did, so I looked for another drop top Poncho.
First problem I have is, what in the heck suspension parts are used in these Canadian Built units!? I want to change complete front end parts, all four coil springs and trailing arm bushings. The disk / drum brakes look good.
I ask the parts guys what they use, and the say pontiac. I think, oh good, but I just don't trust them. Why woulg GM make these things in Canada with Chevy (too BAD) drive trains, chevy wheel base (?), and then bring PONTIAC front ends and Springs? Any help sorting this out would be greatly appreciated.

[mjc34]

Hello Canuckbuiltponcho!

What you actually have is a re-bodied chevrolet Impala. Aside from the rad support, and front wheelwells, the complete suspension and everything else underneath, including the entire firewall, floor and trunk pan is pure Chev. From what I understand, very little from the USA car will work, including most sheetmetal. Our "Parisienne" interior, Minus the dash, is pure Impala. Try and find repop interior parts for the USA car, not alot out there. Some Pontiac purists may think the Canadian car is a bit of a freak, maybe it is, but finding most mechanical/interior parts for the "Oshawa" built car is really quite easy. Most, if not all is being reproduced in one form or another. Type in " Impala parts".
Your saying "To bad" it's a Chevy may be a little premature. Just wait untill you need the parts!
I'm just beginning a restoration on a 69' Parisienne convertible.
Did you know your convertible is quite rare, as only 1033 Parisienne rag's were built! So be proud!

Hope this help's

Cheers! Mark.

[Canuckbltponcho]

Thanks Mark,
Good run down on what GM had to do to supply Canada with a Pontiac product, and some needed reassurance.
I have to admit I am slightly concerned. What I thought was going to be a simple request for front end parts, is turning into some interesting research . First, I called the local GM dealer (Pontiac/Chev), and asked what suspension parts a 1969 Parisienne used. He thought for a second, and replied "Pontiac". OK, good. I picked up my PST catalog went to the GM section. For Pontiac, full size RWD it said 1971 to 1989 . I looked over to full size RWD Chevy. It said 1955 to 1996. What the heck!
I went out to our ancient (and limited) wrecking yard. I asked the super Old Gal who runs the place the same question as I asked the GM parts kid, and she said Pontiac. I stood my ground and asked for proof. She grabbed the Hollinder exchange manual and looked up front coil spring for a 69 Impala, then pointed out that it said nothing about it interchanging with a Pontiac. I thought "what do those Hollinder guys know about Canadian Pontiacs anyway".
Armed with that information, I stopped at B to B Auto parts and had him check his books. It took a while pricing all the parts out. He made some phone calls, as some numbers had changed. The Idler arm is OBSOLETE for cryin out loud! Moog ought to be ashamed. I looked him in the eye and asked " Aren't the parts for the front end of these 69 Oshawa Pontiacs the same as a 69 Impala?" He gave me his best friday afternoon smile and said he was not sure.
So, Like I said I'm still a little bit concerned. I can't part with the cash on such vauge replies from my local professionals. I Might have to contact a free trade Lawyer!
No I did not know so few of these were built. And with such a difficult Car to find parts and answers for it is a better project than I had envisioned!

Later, George

[Canuckbltponcho]

mjc34,
after I posted the last message, I remembered the old 69 to 76 Motor Repair Manual I have tucked away. I checked the Chevrolet section and the Pontiac section on front suspension. After reading them I saw that the 69 Chevrolet and the 69 Pontiac used different methods of adjusting the Camber and Castor. A wee little diagram shows the parts. Under the car with a flashlight...Chevy Suspension. I always did like the "69'...

George

[mjc34]

Good work George!, Now simply tell yourself you have a Impala, better to deal with parts people..lol! Do not mention Pontiac, it confuses them.Seriously!
Yes, it's difficult to get some single moog steering components across the counter, like you've already found out and heard "obsolete".
No problem getting complete rebuild kits though. PST, Kanter has all you'll need. There is a ton of stuff mechanical available for the "chev" once you realize that's what you've got and you start to search. It's possible to make a real handler out of our car, with the right money of course.
I hope this chev talk does'nt brand me as a traitor on this site..yikes!
Anyhow, it's always good to talk to someone interested in the same car. Too bad a good site of our own, of this caliber does'nt really exsist...yet.

Cheers!Mark

Can you give some more details about your car?

[Canuckbltponcho]

Yea, Mark I felt a great sense of relief proving positive the chassis. At some level, I'm sure I know how Columbus felt...

After everyone went to bed I went to Year One online, Kanter online and my old PST cataloge. The very things you mention, are the thoughts that went through my mind. Front and rear sway bar kits, 2.5 turn to turn steering gear box, rebuild parts for the steering column and PST's Polygraphite front end and bushing kits.
(It's hard not to want to get a second mortgage.) The bottom line though, I can now easily make this car safer for the family to ride in, add more a solid and sporty ride to the car, and not break the bank!

As for the car Mark, I don't have much on the history. Further to my first post,
It was my brothers friend in Red Deer, who had done the two car transaction with the B.C. body shop.(All he was interested in of the deal was the 69 Lemans Convertible. Go figure.) The only history he got, was that the body shop guys used this car for filler,and this means both kinds of filler. Time and plastic.
But that dosn't deter my entusiasm. The body was well done. It looks good, even right up close. The car was red new, and is red again, (a Ford red), but it looks hot on the car. The power windows work good and the windshield has one small, go nowhere crack. The bumpers have to come off and get straightened and chromed.

The interior is a little messed up. It got new black carpet and new white top, they put a black 2+2 dash, with tilt steering column, which all needs work. As far as the dash is concerned im thinking of sending it to "Just Dashes" for overhaul.(heard of them?) The side panels are original but warped, rear seat is original but poor. The front seat is out of God knows what. What I would like to find, is a bucket counsel set up from an Impala (now I know they are the same) and sport up the insides, and recover the whole lot with new white vinyl. I Inquired at a couple of upholstry suppliers and recieved one reply with good results from NOS Reproductions.

The disk/drum brakes and emergency, are all in very good shape. I'm very happy about the front disks!

The engine in the car checks out to be a 1970 250 hp block, the head casting #'s were used in 1970 to 1980 350's, and could easily have come on this block, casting #'s on the 4 bbl mnaifold trace to 76 to 82 305/350. The carb #'s indicate a 1971 Rochester 4 bbl. The rear seal leaks, a bit. Can I positivly i.d. this block to this car? By the (poorly) rewelded throttle linkage, I can see it was a two barrel car. (I had to reweld a dodge project I did back in the late 80's. (last car work I have done. I know it is not a Pontiac but I love all old cars. This was a plain 1968 Polara 4 door. I just wanted to have fun. My daughter and wife still fondly remembers the fun we had in this car. It was needlessly totaled by an arrogant, cowerdly hit and run driver while parked on residential street for one night in 95. I'm still steamed.)

I would like to rebuild a good 350 4 bolt block, I have, with 383 stroker kit and mild cam. If I can't have a big block i'd like to have an engine looking like a stock 350, 300 hp, with correct linkages and air filter assembly , that acts like a baby big block.(I think I need to find a 69 Impala for its parts.)

The turbo 350 has a broken kick down cable, where it connects to the carb linkage, but otherwise shifts good. Some time I would likt to swap 700r4. The open diff has 2.73 gears (I wonder if Eaton 3.42 posi would fit this case?)

The wheels are the pontiac 15' 5 spoke rallys. They are refinished and the daughter says they look hot on the car. (It is interesting to get perspective of teens on what is and is not hot. They are a nasty bunch, when displeased)

G.M. offers a serial # trace to list what options had come with a classic car they built, for $45.00, which I may use. Just to have an idea what this old girl really had in her on her birthday.

The car has seen a lot, I want to keep it as stock as possible, But its history and reality lead me to believe being a fun driver are in its future, not concours correct show car.

Tell me about your Parisienne, Mark, I'd like to know what you've got!
In fact, Some digital imagery could be an interesting and helpful source of information. Let me know what you think.


George

[mjc34]

Funny, your vision sounds very much like mine, perf engine, suspension, 700R4 etc...
The buckets and console are a good idea, but beware, adding those seats can be a little work. The buckets require different floor bracing than the bench. No biggie if you can find a 69' or 70' 2+2 or Grande Parisienne, Impala SS, Caprice being parted.
Just Dashes, yes, I've looked at them. It'd be interesting to get a quote from them. It's near impossible to find a good dash up here, although I've seen some nice USA ones on Ebay.
I have a 2 barrel 250hp sport coupe that I'm going to be parting, perhaps I have somthing you'd need. I'll give you everything if you send me your disc brake setup...LOL! Your lucky to have her so equipped.
Here's a link to what I have and what I'm attempting. It's just like they say, a body off is a slow and expensive go. But I love these cars. Check it out.
Cardomain.com (http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/558715)

Cheers!Mark.

[mjc34]

George, speaking of 700R4's...
Check out this site, you can learn everything about that OD here. It has a excellent tutorial.

Bowtie Overdrives (http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/index.shtml)

[Canuckbltponcho]

The guys at Bowtie overdrives have certainly done their homework on this site! I do know one thing, if their Transmissions recieve the same energy as the web site, they will certainly be worth considering. Have you used their products?

George.

[mjc34]

No, not yet. I have a line on a good core 700R4 right now. $300. Needs a rebuild, that'l cost at least $1500 to do it right. I think it's pretty high on the wish list right now. But I think about having a OD often. The TV cable set up from BTO seems the only way to go. I've seen none as comprehensive as Bowtie's.

[kmccrystal]

Hi Canuck-built,

I have a '68 Catalina and had a couple of soft trim pieces on the IP redone by Just Dashes. They are the pieces on the glove box door and around the gauges, but I think yours in da Great White North are a little different. Anyway... I sent them black pieces and asked them to make 'em white. And they did, and they came out wonderful. I recommend them. The prices are a little steep and the turn around is long (in my opinion), like 8-12 weeks. But the quality is first rate; use them.