"RA & HO" Q-jets on e-Bay

['ol Pinion head]

Have been getting e-mails, IM's & phone calls in regards to availabilty & or authenticity of original RA & 455HO carbs for years. Lately a lot of words being exchanged in response to present e-Bay offerings.

Would like to qualify a few things before getting into the e-Bay "activity". I started buying up nice original '67-72 Pontiac Q-jets in '82, after finding even "easy number to find" early Pontiac Q-jets somewhat hard to find in the yards (compared to typical early Chebby 4MV Q-jets). Have since bought, sold, & traded several hundred. Through this all, have managed to come up with the nice correctly dated originals for my own cars (my main goal). From the 1st original RA carb I bought in '83, started writing down #'s, dates, two letter ID codes, throttle body little round casting numbers. Also spent more than a bunch of time comparing castings & observing the two distinct styles of stamped ID numbers as I vatted carb bodies. Wrote down most of this info & have taken a bunch of pictures. All to ward off myself & fellow restorer buddies getting hammered on fake expensive carbs. In the last 4 years, a good longtime vendor friend got into a monsterous supply (over 2 semi truck loads) of original factory rebuilt Q-jets (rebuilt by Rochestor). Talking hard to find GTO, TransAm, 442, GS carbs, most with beautiful plating. Vast majority were original date Q-jets, not Service Replacements. This stock had been boxed & sitting since '77 & I managed to examine untold # of these from the get go. From this supply, managed to buy the last remaining RA carbs I needed for my own roundport keeper cars. Also bought a few other hard to find carbs & have since sold or traded them off. Vast majority of original carbs out of this find have been sold, & I have no finacial interest in selling what is left. Just made a great venue to study tons of originals right out of the box.

e-Bay arrives 5 or so years ago & as one can imagine what do we see...the whole gamut from good deals to fraudulent activity. Having spoken with several individuals in the last year who have been burned on fake RA Q-jets, could not help but post on this growing problem.

Few auctions to ck out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&mfcisapicommand=ViewItem&item=1845405550

"7040267" carb... No two letter ID code, other than the gold paint,looks pretty nice to the untrained eye. Two letter ID codes showed up in mid '69 production. Sure like to hear from someone who has an original '70 dated Rochestor Q-jet that does not have a two letter ID code...

http://ebay0.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_c3f2b7d5525102186097b0f617b0720c/i-4.JPG
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Another very "iffy" carb... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1853481692

Nice view of the numbers. Know this # of carb intimately. What can I say? http://ebay1.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_b0eca4fe868e1ac0440c79683109871c/i-4.JPG
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Here's another. Know this # very well, as have had seven of these that were all originals & have examined countless more. Interestingly, this auction was pulled with no bidders, after carb had been bid up to $140 or so by several bidders. This was within 18-24 hours of the ending time. Guess, it wasn't getting a high enough bid(?)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1859032005

What's up with the number stamping? No two letter ID code...
http://ebay1.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_5b2276a0f7b097927dc9e5e0d445c6d8/i-4.JPG
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Probably the hardest to find of all '69 & later original RA carbs, & this one is a major fake job. Notice presence of booster rings in primary venturi of "original date" '71 HO carb. http://ebay0.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_ac3af627212f5cec6e7b3fdefa8322cb/i-2.JPG



Also carb has heat compensator bolted on back...wrong (not on any '71 HO's). Only '71 HO carb I & many other longtime collectors have ever ran across that had booster rings in primaries was a #7041270 Service replacement carb built in '74.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1858874870

http://ebay0.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_ac3af627212f5cec6e7b3fdefa8322cb/i-5.JPG While numbers & two letter ID code are not crisp, does look "convincing" to the untrained eye.
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Another one with obliterated & restamped #'s. Interestingly, auction was stopped just like the "#7041267" auction.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&mfcisapicommand=ViewItem&item=1862378723

nice stamping job /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
http://ebay0.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_fc6e9a3bd4b97c5826b6967865b65eba/i-4.JPG
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Really like this ad off CP....very interesting

79720 70 WANTED 67-72 PONTIAC QUADRAJET

I AM LOOKING FOR A PONTIAC QUADRAJET 4BBL CARB THAT WILL FIT A 67-72 PONTIAC.I CAN USE ANY COMPLETE CARB THESE YEARS TO FIT MY GOAT. I AM NOT SEEKING A CORRECT CARB FOR MY CAR, JUST A COMPLETE AND GOOD REBUILDABLE CORE FOR NO MORE THAN $50.00. THANKS [email protected]

Name: KEVIN HORCHAK
State: FL
Country: USA
Posted: 9/19/02
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Would love to see some feedback here.

Know that one PY member's brother was top bidder on a $500 fake #7040273 back in May or June. Was sent the auction by fellow restorer who stated "Wonder if he knows that this thing is a fake". Not good...

[This message was edited by ol' Pinion head on September 27, 2002 at 07:55 AM.]

['ol Pinion head]

Have been getting e-mails, IM's & phone calls in regards to availabilty & or authenticity of original RA & 455HO carbs for years. Lately a lot of words being exchanged in response to present e-Bay offerings.

Would like to qualify a few things before getting into the e-Bay "activity". I started buying up nice original '67-72 Pontiac Q-jets in '82, after finding even "easy number to find" early Pontiac Q-jets somewhat hard to find in the yards (compared to typical early Chebby 4MV Q-jets). Have since bought, sold, & traded several hundred. Through this all, have managed to come up with the nice correctly dated originals for my own cars (my main goal). From the 1st original RA carb I bought in '83, started writing down #'s, dates, two letter ID codes, throttle body little round casting numbers. Also spent more than a bunch of time comparing castings & observing the two distinct styles of stamped ID numbers as I vatted carb bodies. Wrote down most of this info & have taken a bunch of pictures. All to ward off myself & fellow restorer buddies getting hammered on fake expensive carbs. In the last 4 years, a good longtime vendor friend got into a monsterous supply (over 2 semi truck loads) of original factory rebuilt Q-jets (rebuilt by Rochestor). Talking hard to find GTO, TransAm, 442, GS carbs, most with beautiful plating. Vast majority were original date Q-jets, not Service Replacements. This stock had been boxed & sitting since '77 & I managed to examine untold # of these from the get go. From this supply, managed to buy the last remaining RA carbs I needed for my own roundport keeper cars. Also bought a few other hard to find carbs & have since sold or traded them off. Vast majority of original carbs out of this find have been sold, & I have no finacial interest in selling what is left. Just made a great venue to study tons of originals right out of the box.

e-Bay arrives 5 or so years ago & as one can imagine what do we see...the whole gamut from good deals to fraudulent activity. Having spoken with several individuals in the last year who have been burned on fake RA Q-jets, could not help but post on this growing problem.

Few auctions to ck out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&mfcisapicommand=ViewItem&item=1845405550

"7040267" carb... No two letter ID code, other than the gold paint,looks pretty nice to the untrained eye. Two letter ID codes showed up in mid '69 production. Sure like to hear from someone who has an original '70 dated Rochestor Q-jet that does not have a two letter ID code...

http://ebay0.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_c3f2b7d5525102186097b0f617b0720c/i-4.JPG
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Another very "iffy" carb... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1853481692

Nice view of the numbers. Know this # of carb intimately. What can I say? http://ebay1.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_b0eca4fe868e1ac0440c79683109871c/i-4.JPG
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's another. Know this # very well, as have had seven of these that were all originals & have examined countless more. Interestingly, this auction was pulled with no bidders, after carb had been bid up to $140 or so by several bidders. This was within 18-24 hours of the ending time. Guess, it wasn't getting a high enough bid(?)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1859032005

What's up with the number stamping? No two letter ID code...
http://ebay1.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_5b2276a0f7b097927dc9e5e0d445c6d8/i-4.JPG
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Probably the hardest to find of all '69 & later original RA carbs, & this one is a major fake job. Notice presence of booster rings in primary venturi of "original date" '71 HO carb. http://ebay0.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_ac3af627212f5cec6e7b3fdefa8322cb/i-2.JPG



Also carb has heat compensator bolted on back...wrong (not on any '71 HO's). Only '71 HO carb I & many other longtime collectors have ever ran across that had booster rings in primaries was a #7041270 Service replacement carb built in '74.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1858874870

http://ebay0.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_ac3af627212f5cec6e7b3fdefa8322cb/i-5.JPG While numbers & two letter ID code are not crisp, does look "convincing" to the untrained eye.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another one with obliterated & restamped #'s. Interestingly, auction was stopped just like the "#7041267" auction.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&mfcisapicommand=ViewItem&item=1862378723

nice stamping job /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
http://ebay0.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_fc6e9a3bd4b97c5826b6967865b65eba/i-4.JPG
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Really like this ad off CP....very interesting

79720 70 WANTED 67-72 PONTIAC QUADRAJET

I AM LOOKING FOR A PONTIAC QUADRAJET 4BBL CARB THAT WILL FIT A 67-72 PONTIAC.I CAN USE ANY COMPLETE CARB THESE YEARS TO FIT MY GOAT. I AM NOT SEEKING A CORRECT CARB FOR MY CAR, JUST A COMPLETE AND GOOD REBUILDABLE CORE FOR NO MORE THAN $50.00. THANKS [email protected]

Name: KEVIN HORCHAK
State: FL
Country: USA
Posted: 9/19/02
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would love to see some feedback here.

Know that one PY member's brother was top bidder on a $500 fake #7040273 back in May or June. Was sent the auction by fellow restorer who stated "Wonder if he knows that this thing is a fake". Not good...

[This message was edited by ol' Pinion head on September 27, 2002 at 07:55 AM.]

[Heybuck]

That's all very intersting. I can tell you right here I know zilch about this sort of thing.

If I needed a carb and I saw one on eBay, I probably would have bought it on the say so of the vendor. /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I'll be a bit more circumspect after reading this post....

Good one

Experiance is that marvellous thing that makes you recognise a mistake when you make it again.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Ahem,

Fine research OPH.

Years of scrounging USED Q-Jets in the early 80s leads me to believe my recognition of Q-Jet authenticity. Having owned the rare 68-73 Q-Jets (69Sprint, 428HO, Ram IV auto, 4spd, and 73 SD455 manual)...as well as the plain-vanilla standard GTO Q-Jet.

Upon deciding to sell my rather pristine 73 SD Q-Jet to Barry Martin >10years ago. I recorded all the cast numbers and features...and decided to build my own personal performance Q-Jets from darn good common scratch.

Well, my favorite Centerbodies are the $5 Chevy 7029200 carbs. They get surrounded by 70 Poncho Bigcar baseplates and TopPlates. Top performer Q-Jet stuff...and makes the Dual Quad fit possible.

I particularly like the Hand's advice to "make your own Secondary Air Valve slots in an unslotted airplate, to improve the sharpness of the Secondary response compared to the stock slotted topPlates"...of course ya gotta open-up the Secondary Accellerator pump holes to gain the bigger shot. Practicality works for me.

OPH, I respect your efforts. My problem with the numbers game is I hate to attach value anymore to the rhyme in numbers...they are just numbers to me...except I'm still playing favorites with head numbers.

Certainly, many others out there attach value and importance to stampings, numbers and codes.

H.I.S.

YK block, N 455crank, J-series SDRods, 48heads, 7029268carb, BE secondaryrods on J-hanger, PC TH400, 121 frontpump, AH valvebody, ZD 12Bolt, JC rims, NOR plant carbody.

Yet, the car is so unoriginal, so non-stock that I like it.

"11.00/123MPH/1.50 60foot/29.5"/4.10:1/10"/472 #48/Flat HYD/DualQuad/Wenzler/3250Lbs
12.00/112MPH/1.61 60foot/26"/3.31:1/10"/472 #48/FlatHYD/Q-Jet/Torker/3650Lbs"

[Rocky Rotella]

Roger, excellent info and descriptions! Guys like this need to be stopped before they ruin the hobby. He sold a restamped RAIV carb for $835! I could give him the benefit of the doubt saying maybe he bought it misrepresented and is selling it unknowlingly misrepresented but then you see his CP ad, and look at his past auctions and you see how many 72 carbs he has bought! He's got 3 or 4 Ebay ID's as well. CHeck out the 79 W72 carb he sold himself for $148, not even a Pontiac carb!

Thanks for posting this.

[hoffman7476]

Thanks for the info.
I saw some of those carbs when the auctions were running. I'm not into the numbers thing but I remember thinking they were pretty neat.
Who'd a thunk it!

http://images.andale.com/f2/129/111/8188590/1032668461894_license_20020921210827_39172.jpg
http://motorhead.iwarp.com
In a big operation you have to expect a few screw ups.

[Colorado_Goat]

I have looked at a lot of this guys carbs on ebay. I noticed he had two more listed. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1863949798
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1863728537

He must be getting some emails about his work or bidders have backed out after finding they are bad restamps. He has put this message in his latest ads "This carb is NOT A RESTAMP. This carb is a oem unit as it came from the factory. Anyone that emails you directly saying there is something wrong with it please email me ASAP. Thanks 4speed." /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

He is one of many selling fake carbs on ebay and other places. I saw his ad looking for a "carb for his GTO" as well.

A bad day fishing beats any day working...and if you can drive your GTO to get there....all the better!

['ol Pinion head]

The auctions I originally noted were by two different e-bay sellers. Not sure if they are the same person or not...

Does however seem very odd when such "rare" carbs started to appear on e-Bay from these two accounts back in the late Spring, Both accounts were listing them in close proximity (time wise) to each other, & "both" sellers are out of FL. (prob just a coincidence). The very 1st auctions from these two had spray can dye jobs from H#ll...looked like the whole carb had been painted with WallyWorld gold paint. Had to be just another coincidence /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

On the last two auctions which Colorado Goat mentions these do appear to be original Q-jets for the application noted. One, the Carter manufactered one appears to have been bought off e-Bay earlier. The other is def an original '73 T/A 4spd carb, as I have an NOS condition one this exact # to compare with e-Bay pics of one offered.

As the seller (4spd kid) was tipped of this post at around 8:00 EST this morning, he has had more than enough time to amend yesterdays beginning auction & put another low profit margin, easy to find, carb on e-Bay. Nice tactic... hope they sell...

[Colorado_Goat]

I have seen "carbdoctor" auctioning a lot of carbs on ebay as well. Has had pontiacs in the past but don't find any at this time.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1862927483
These seem to be legit. Anyone agree or disagree?

There is a similar post on CP regarding this issue started by Jon H. I think people can argue both for and against restamping. If someone has a RAIV '69 Judge 4 Speed car and needs a correct carburetor to complete the restoration. They have a slim to none chance of finding one. So what do they do? Sometimes a restamp or replacement is the only way to go. But on the other hand, someone selling a restamp carburetor and is passing it off as a restored original would seem to be committing fraud.

/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

A bad day fishing beats any day working...and if you can drive your GTO to get there....all the better!

[Rocky Rotella]

Well, if your attempts to sell carbs that have been restamped is uncovered, you then sell those potential restamp carbs as they were originally stamped.

[Colorado_Goat]

I certainly agree with you Rocky. Maybe this fourspeedkid is doing just that now that folks have seemingly said something to him or his buyers. We'll see I guess. Education is the best way to keep from being ripped off. Thanks to folks like Hardgrove, OPH and other carb experts to helping educate all of us. A few years ago I wouldn't have known the difference between a 7027262 and a 7041273.

A bad day fishing beats any day working...and if you can drive your GTO to get there....all the better!

[Marty Phipps]

For what it's worth?
I bought a Holley carb from the carbdoctor off ebay.
He listed it as a factory rebuilt unit.
From my own personal experience, this seller is 100% legit.
If I ever need to buy another carb., and the carbdoctor has what I'm after, I'll buy it in an instant from him.

[Ccass]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colorado_Goat:
I have seen "carbdoctor" auctioning a lot of carbs on ebay as well. Has had pontiacs in the past but don't find any at this time.

These seem to be legit. Anyone agree or disagree?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have dealt with The CarbDoctor since 1985 and he does not deceive. He has turned up some of the rarest carbs over the years. Not so many any more. He also has restamped carbs over the years but is always very clear about his actions.

Disguntled PY Forums worker

[Colorado_Goat]

Thanks Chris and Marty. There are a lot of truly honest folks sellings things on ebay and other places. I know I have bought many parts from honest ebay sellers and..knock on wood..have yet to be burned by anyone. It's good that we have experts here that help us all. I have sure learned a lot from the people on this board. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

A bad day fishing beats any day working...and if you can drive your GTO to get there....all the better!

[Jack Peters]

OPH,

Recognized my carb right away (7041267) Had to dig it out of the box to see if someone had done me in. I bought mine from the guy in TX that advertises in HMN. It has been rebuilt, according to the person who sold it to me and agreed to buy it back if it was wrong. I just looked in the '71 assembly manual and this carb is only for the non RA HO engine. Yes mine has the XB and date on it.

The person about whom you spoke who was able to buy the QJ's is probably the same person who sold me mine as he mentioned that he had come across and was able to purchase the whole batch. By the way, when I mentioned my number to him he told me what it was for without hesitation. He only had one and I grabbed it up. Probably paid too much for it and at the time didn't know you. However, with the guarentee of the buyback and his reputation I bought it.

Is the heat conpensator you mentioned the two slots in the secondary butterfly's?

Is the letters on the 7041273 correct. Wrong code. Should it not be VH. The codes I am getting is out of the assembly manual. However I have known them to be wrong. I have a couple of things that are missing on my car based on the manual. However, pictures of the car new indicate, that the assembly plant (Van Nuys,CA) didn't do it the way they were supposed to. Could have been a friday or monday or something else. Anyhow, just my .02 worth.

JLP

[cdn1972]

I to have seen lots of carb numbers changed over the years as I work for a Delco distributor here in canada. We used to rebuild carbs as a specialty when we had a service shop in operation. Over the years we have seen plenty of swap meet carbs re-assembled with new fresh stampings. We used a 9C Parts and service manual to let the customer know if the insides matched the so called castings.This manual did not show us date stamps but gave us a parts breakdown of all the pieces matching the castings(jets,rods,chokes etc.)Im sure now with e bay the temptation to make some money is greater as your customer is unlikely to be a local guy.
If anyone is interested I have a 9c parts and service manual that covers Rochester Carbs 55-71 canada, and 51-71 Usa. My car is a 72 so I have little use for it.This manual also has all the service specs for setups after rebuilding.
If anyone is interested post here or e mail me direct. [email protected]
Thanks