BAD Experience with Dealer

[ksgto#2]

Not sure where this goes from here, but I want to warn the world of my BAD experience with a dealer. I know it's ultimately my fault that I was taken advantage of and I emberassingly accept that responsibility. I purchased a 65 GTO from a dealer in Pa. I want others to be alerted to my experience to prevent anyone else getting taken by this dealer. What do I do now to conform to Forum ettique/rules? Just blurt it out?--Waitng for reply---Cap

[BLKBRD]

The dealer wouldn't happen to be Custom Classic GTO would it?

[ks gto (Cap)]

BLKBRD- No, It was Dave & his wife Marietta Tomchik as Sports Car Gallery of Beaver Falls Pa. Tonight I am going to sit down and spell out the whole thing on this forum section to get it out there objectively. Then if I'm "all wet" about feeling the way I do, the forum can tell me. And I go on from there.

[sportscar]

Unfortunately there are some very unreasonable people that no matter how nice the car and how good the price; the car is never nice enough, the price is never low enough. Cap bought red 4-speed '65 GTO with power steering, center console, Rallye gauges, rallye wheels, with a nonmatching but correct 389 in #3 show-driver condition for $24,000 AND HE IS UNHAPPY!?! My God, he must not get out much. Perhaps a new Honda would better suit him...

[sportscar]

Nope; not related to joe namath but his brother's insurance office is right around the corner. you're more than welcome to stop by and take a look.

[SGTGTO]

I bought my 68 GTO through the Sport Car Gallery. Unfortunately I did it while I was in Iraq, and could not view the car for myself. I even had an appraiser take a look at it. I relied heavily on what their website said. Turns out the appraiser sucked, and the website was crap. TONS of little things wrong with it. Show quality my @ss. You win some, you lose some. My advice to anyone is if you get a car from there, kick them tires mighty hard. I will say they made it pretty painless to purchase the car from another state (my dad did the paperwork) and they were kind enough to hold the car there until shipping could be arranged. A for customer service.... C- for advertised product.

[ks gto (Cap)]

Sportcar-After I have finished my post tonight about what the two Restration shops said and I list the hidden flaws vs. the write up about the advertisement and the comments of the person you suggested, then we can continue and others can make their own minds up about you.--Cap

[6t7gto]

i bought a 70 t37 from Sports car gallery last fall.
the car was everything the website said it was.
i bought this car just for racing.
the previous owner put all kinds of expensive race gear in it.
of course, he made money on selling me the car but that's what he's in business for.
if i would have done everything that has been done to the car i purchased, to a bone stock t37,i probably would have spent another 10 grand and not be racing til next year.
i looked at the car on a monday and told him i would be back saturday to pick it up.
i asked how much of a deposit to hold the car.
he told me my handshake was good enough and to come saturday and pick it up.
dave and marietta are good people.
they have some real sharp cars and i feel they price their cars fairly.
david

[mrrat1]

I would'nt spend that kind of money on #3 car wrong motor to boot, unless it was a vert. $17,000 tops my nickels worth. Show/driver would be I think a #2 car with orig mtr. #3 would be clean driver. Dave K.

[sportscar]

HA HA!! sgtgto; you are unhappy with your hide-away headlight '68 GTO for $15900?? the inspector was crap?? the website was crap?? and the car is crap too?? perhaps you need to get out a bit more too... take cap with you!!
2manyponchos would only spend $17000 on a #3 show-driver gto convertible?!? see if cap and sgtgto have room in the car for you too. you three together would be a riot!!
HEY, spring carlisle is this weekend, you guys NEED to go. in fact, take your cars, you may find yourselves with a substantial profit...

[mrrat1]

A #3 car is a driver not show car. From what was described seems the 65 needs HELP (to be #2 car). So does your people skills. We can judge better when cap gets back on the hidden flaws. By the way I can spend as much or as little as I see fit, and it won't be goin in your pocket. My 67 hardtop was bought as a driver for $2500 FYI. Sportcar 3 posts all neg. you need a life. Dave K.

[ksgto#2]

Group-
Sorry I've kept you waiting-didn't mean to. I have had a PM exchange going with sportcar (Dave) & then suddenly I sat back and rexamined everything. Including "pittsburgh 64's about keeping my cool (thanx pittsburgh 64). I decided I had the personal responsibility to admit some things to him, but point out some other things that I felt he could benefit from in the future (from a consumer standpoint).
I had a rather long but honest, objective, PM built to him. I tried to print it and lost it, so I have to start over and will accomplish it tonight. Then I will come into this forum and point out some things for the benefit of anyone in the proccess of purchase. But I have decided that a prolonged forum debate on this car, will result in mudslinging and not really accomplish much but make us both look like idiots. The whole purpose in the first place was to get people to over rule their enthusiasm of a owning a dream car and act responsibly - it's ok to Trust----but by all means Verify. I didn't follow that ALL the way through.
Until later, please bear with me......Cap

[SGTGTO]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">HA HA!! sgtgto; you are unhappy with your hide-away headlight '68 GTO for $15900?? the inspector was crap?? the website was crap?? and the car is crap too?? perhaps you need to get out a bit more too... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hide-away headlight GTO? I was looking around.. i failed to find..... the acuators, spring assembly, hoses, OR the hide-away light switch. I think what you ment to say was 68 GTO with hide-away doors.. and nothing else. And yes the appraiser was crap, he missed a rip in the headliner. 5 inches LONG! And about 100 other things! You would think for 300 some odd $$ they would be good. If you are so behind your website, then why don't you take out that disclaimer stating that you cannot guaruntee any words on the site. I made the mistake of trusting your site, and the appraiser. That is my bad. But you are still the jack@ss that runs the site and sold it. I didn't know being a smug SOB was part of good business.

[sportscar]

sgtgto, the hide-aways were manually operated and this was explained to you IN GREAT DETAIL PRIOR TO PURCHASE; REMEMBER?? and the inspection you ordered also explained this; REMEMBER?? or are you too stupid to appreciate a great car at an great price?? ps. seen any '68 gtos as nice as yours for $15,900??
pps. I have some comments where you rave about what a nice car it is; want me to post them??

[Bob Hall]

Dear Sportcar,

May I trouble you a tad by asking you to type coherent sentences? Your posts have a tendency to make my eyes bleed.

Thank you

[mike nixon]

cap.

by all means post what was found with this car. after reading sgt gto's partial list i'm very intrested in reading this.

if you don't want to post it here then send it to the email in my profile.

mike

[mike nixon]

sportcar, you need to work on your people skills. that's no way for a business person to speak to a prospective or past client.

this is also not the part of this forum to be trolling for cars. there is a section specifically for that.

this is the reason you ad was deleted and all in the future will be deleted that are in the wrong forums.

read the description of the forum before you post in it.



mike

[ks gto (Cap)]

Forum- The advice and comments offered to me by "pittsbugh 64" gave me cause to to fully give this whole matter personal review. I am grateful for his advice and therefore have tried very hard to keep my cool and be very upfront and objective. Sometimes that is painful and emberassing, but I am the one that has to look at me in mirror.
I intended to come back at this writing and list word for word the Dealers' written description in the Ad. Then proceed through my intial examination impressions and back those up by what 2 resto-shops found. However, two things have altered those intentions.
One being; As I have browsed through other posts of complaints between parties, Things can regress to the point of ridiculous with several parties making comments that can get carried away. When that happens there are no winners, and emotions can make us appear as something other than what we are. I began down that road with this issue.
The second being (and most important); The dealer and I will forever disagree on the car vs. how it was represented. That really becomes almost pointless because of my deviation of responsible purchasing practices.
In all fairness, I have PM'd the dealer and relayed much of this to him. The fate of his business will not be determined by me, but by the "Market".
Contrary to how it may seem, I am a successful businessman in my field. I too, deal with the public--customers---and my success is determined by my principles of business, honesty, customer service and my reputation in my field. However, in my enthusiasm to once again own the car of my dreams, I violated one or two principles of business that I had been taught. I based my decision on several things I had been told and on Trust. Trust is ok, but I didn't follow all the way through. One practice that has in the past treated me very well is the concept of Trust--BUT verify. I deviated from that philosophy by not following through and I accept the consequences-totally.
Plain fact is- he was selling-I bought. I did have every opportunity to have the car inspected by an independent third party and failed to do so. Suffice it to say, that my initial fears of getting something other than I thought were substantiated by two Resto-shops.

I would most emphatically stress to all that are making a purchase to Trust all you want, But to make sure Verification of what's represented is part of your process.
After my last post and the advice of "pittsburgh 64", I had to ask myself-are my actions to date motivated by my self-assigned role of an obligation to "warn the world" or by my personal emberassment of deviating from responsible purchasing practices? Clearly, I failed to properly watch out for my own interests and I will close with the advice--Know who you're doing business with and be sure to Verify by whatever means before committing.
I thank all of you for your tolerance and will no longer persue this issue. I am thankful for all the talent and the quality of subject matter of this forum. I hope to be a positive part of it for some time to come. Thank You all---Cap or ks gto (I am registered on this forum at my office and at home.)

[sportscar]

good night girls...

[Bob Hall]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sportcar:
good night girls... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And that right there is great customer service.

[mrrat1]

True colors revealed. I hope all on the board and those we know are aware of the way they carry themselves and their business. Dave K.

[SCOTT ESTERLE]

Sportscar, I would never buy anything from you based on how you represent yourself on this forum. Your typing skills are horrible as is your Customer Service skills. I honestly don't know how you stay in Business. This is constructive criticism.

[SGTGTO]

Thanks Sports Car Gallery. You have shown the members of this very extensive Pontiac group exactly how you do business and how you treat people. And once again, a GTO that has ONLY the hideaway doors, and nothing else, is not a hide-away GTO. Its a GTO with the hide-away grill. And yes i have seen much nicer numbers MATCHING 68 GTOs in much better condition for a LOWER price. Like i said, you win some you lose some. And by all means, post all the past comments i made about the car you want. It doesn't mean anything. Its like a new relationship with a girl.. everything is fine at first... you don't want to admit anything is wrong.. your just happy you have her... then the problems start to bug you.. then aggravate you. Not that you would know about relationships, you just seem to screw people http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[sportscar]

ladies, thank god that I am financially fortunate enough to not have to deal with chronically unhappy people. a nice new honda with a poor kid salesman doing somersaults for you approval will be much more to your liking. you really need to get out in the real world; and yes, stay away from mine. in the meantime, perhaps prozac will help?? best wishes...

[SCOTT ESTERLE]

Class Act.

[Rugratman]

Err,
I guess we wont be coming to see the 70 SE Challenger this weekend. http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

Nice looking car too, Only 20 grand.
Maybe for the best, long way from Carlisle anyway. Thought we found a jem, was gonna keep quiet about the car. Hopefully we will get lucky there.

I will keep looking.
Thanks for the heads up.

[mike nixon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scott Esterle:
Class Act. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

sounds more like what we call a "carlot tony" in this area.

no customer service, no class, no integrity and pretty soon no customers.

mike

[Colin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scott Esterle:
Class Act.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah....If I am ever in the market for a restored car OR a really nice driver you can be sure I wont do my bussiness with sportcar. Jeeze...what a way to represent yourself and your bussiness. http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
Seems to me like a few folks made some statements that caused him to be so defensive........usually a sign that they are true statements or at least partially true. Otherwise there wouldnt be a need to be so crude and defensive.

[Juliano]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sportcar:
ladies, thank god that I am financially fortunate enough to not have to deal with chronically unhappy people. a nice new honda with a poor kid salesman doing somersaults for you approval will be much more to your liking. you really need to get out in the real world; and yes, stay away from mine. in the meantime, perhaps prozac will help?? best wishes...

If you were not financially fortunate would that make you honest </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[firebird67]

I have some advice when purchasing cars from a dealer. Don't do it! buy from a private individual who has owned the car for several years and knows the history of the car. I am not saying all dealers are bad but personally I would never buy from a dealer because they are only in it for the money and most of there prices are over inflated. I hate to see people buy cars without seeing them in person first, one persons opinion of a car is usually different than the next person. A car that looks nice standing five feet away could be a piece of junk up close when looking at all the fine details. I know of a local dealer to me that had a 67 GTO convert. that I had looked at before they got it. The car looked nice but was a former rust bucket that did not have the correct color combo and did not have the correct motor but was advertised as a totally numbers matching car and they were asking $18,000 more than what they paid for it. All you guys looking for classic cars please do your homework and never buy without seeing the car in person.

[ks gto (Cap)]

Obviously I ditto that---with bold print. I looked at others that individuals had--they were straight up honest with me before I ever went and looked at the cars. My inspection revealed just what firebirds67 said......descriptions and interpretations are different---some were too hard on their cars some were right on and one needed to look a little closer at what he had.
My personal policy is to look myself in the future. On my puchase pertinent to this forum subject, I talked to a guy that was suggested by the dealer. He was not an appraiser nor did he charge me a fee--just gave me his opinion of the car as he saw it. His opinion was different than mine or the two Resto-shops.

[ks gto (Cap)]

Sorry--need to add more--I wasn't saying avoid a dealer-- just wanted to emphasise my opinion to look yourself. You are the only one that has what you want/expect in your mind. Cap

[Big Chief 541]

Remember the old saying? "would you buy a used car from this guy" http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
NO!

[242177P]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sportcar:
sgtgto, the hide-aways were manually operated and this was explained to you IN GREAT DETAIL PRIOR TO PURCHASE; REMEMBER?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
My headlights are "manually operated", which means they aren't automatic. That means I have to use a switch to turn them on, not crawl under the hood attaching wires. http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[mrrat1]

He may not be a bad person, just a bad businessman. I hope he changes his way of dealing with people. He will find it pays off much better in the end. Dave K.

[fiedlerh]

Looks like others have had trouble too...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Eau Claire Cty. Cases

O'Brien v. Sports Car Gallery

Steven O'Brien, 2728 Pineview Rd., Eau Claire, filed for $3,202 against Sports Car Gallery of Beaver Falls, Beaver Falls, PA. Plaintiff represents self. Misrepresentation.

Steve O'Brien, 2728 Pineview Rd., Eau Claire, was awarded $3,454 in a judgment against Sports Car Gallery of Beaver Falls, Beaver Falls, PA. Misrepresentation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Judas]

Wow. Coming online and calling your customers names. Thats the kind of professionalism that reminds me of a certain machinst out west...

[jstackem]

Well, I think we all learned a VERY important lesson here. Sportcar has wonderfully showed us how NOT to handle a situation like this in an internet post. It doesn't matter if the buyer's claims are true or not, he looks like an idiot.

[SteveO]

This is Steve from the E-mail above. Cap called me to ask about my experience with Sports Car Gallery. Well I bought a 64 Plymouth Belvedere from Sports Car Gallery about 2 summers ago. I was promised in writting that this car was rust free and a show car trophy. I was told that "you will not find one nicer" and many things like this. I went on Dave's word from Sports Car Gallery and bought it sight unseen. When it arrived, it was a piece of junk. On the transport you could see the rust and bad body work in the car. It had holes thru the trunk floor, bubbling on the quarter panels, the chrome was all pitted, the bumpers bent, the engine ran very poor, and the engine,trans,and rear end all leaked fluids. The car was so far from what it was represented, that I called Sports Car back and they bought it back from me for $2000 less that I paid for it. I also had to pay the shipping fee. Sports Car made a $2000 from me from the false information they gave me about the car.

I would be very careful if you look at cars from Sports Car Gallery........I was taken for a pretty unpleasent ride and learned my lesson the hard $$$ way.

[herdswoman]

I am especially impressed with how "lady" is this man's favorite form of name calling. http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Just makes me want to run right out and buy another Judge...or another GTO....or another Firebird... only not from him.

[dave bolduc]

amen herds....I'd love to bitch-slap this pimp.....call me a lady and I'll take a road trip to show sportsfarce some Jersey Justice.

I can't imagine a bigger fool, thnks for posting. It would be nice to think that some poor soul would be able to avoid similar heartache. The fact the idiot posted showed he reads the boards. Time to create a HAll Of Shame...he can be the first inductee by popular vote!

[ks gto (Cap)]

Ummmm...this may not be over. Anyone that knows someone else that has been misrepresented by these people? I would be interested in knowing about them. Cap

[fastgtr]

"Ladies?"

I guarantee he would NEVER say this in person to any of us. If he tried it with me he'd spit teeth and fast. He's obviously got some serious issues. Newsflash to Sportcar! word of mouth is THE most important tool in business. Paid ads dont earn you lifetime customers. Just one sale. Then they are gone.

I run my own very succesful business, and have for almost ten years. Though I run a yellow pages ad, that isnt the bulk of my business. Almost ALL of my customers have come to me via referrals. I keep 98% as repeat clients. Why? Becasue I guarantee my work, and stand behind it 100%. If the customer makes a mistake, I soemtimes eat that too, and get the profit back by keeping the customer. See, the whole idea is to KEEP your customers! The key to success in any business endeavor is HAPPY clientele. Retail or wholesale, counter sales or service.

Here is a factoid from the rand Institute. If the customer isnt happy, he tells a min. of ten people. For every one person who complains there are ten who dont. How many could you have brought in had you you used basic diplomacy? Dispute or not? You surely lost at least one or two that were in the queue and who knows how many others. Every time someone "googles" your company name these threads will come up. And you hung your own ass out for all to see. What a nincompoop? How smart are ya now pal? Don't believe me on the google? Try it and see!

You act like a bully. I know from reading these threads you are a liar and a cheat and when you are not face to face, a name caller. I would LOVE to have you say something like this to me or one of my fellow pontiac enthusiasts in person so you cant run. I'd love to test your "manhood" as it were and see if you can take as good as you seem to enjoy giving.

Like I said in a previous post, it's not when things are right that you find out who you are dealing with. It's when things go wrong. Screw one guy, it costs you a LOT more than one customer. It's not the dispute that has me cheesed at him. It's his arrogance and name calling. "Sportcar" I would refrain from insults unless you have the means to defend yourself 24/7. You have made some mighty good people mighty angry and most of us had no grievance with you. Now, it's a different story.

[showgoat67]

Well i have been reading all these posts and i must say you all got points.But remember something most of these dealers are buying cars off ebay or out of the paper giving it a quick cleanup and trying to get a million dollars for it most dealers dont even know what they are looking at they see musclecar and see $$$$.Now this meatball from the sports gallery sounds like one of these people.And also i dont care what anyone says there is no perfect car at a inexpensive price all cars have problems wether it is completely done or not.I personally have sold over 30 cars mostly gtos and i tell people like this it is what it is and if your not interested someone else will be.I think what this guy is doing is uncool and should be reported to better business maybe they can look into his dealings.I am sorry to see fellow members get taken.And i agree in detail have someone you trust look at car if you cant and never ever buy anything that is a maybe in your mind on any part of the car.The bad part is people like this dealer hurt other honest dealers or sellers because now others will be very skeptical of everything and i know sometimes it seems like man i better get it or it will be gone always remember their will always be other cars.And the only way to make sure your getting truley what you want is to build it yourself or a qualified person you can trust.Just my view.

kenny

[pro-tour79]

well here are my .02 forget the fact that the guy has no customer service skills he just should never have jumped in and add fuel to the fire, but one big thing has to be remembered is that a deal was made and if the buyer is unhappy with his decision well the seller should not be responssible for the buyer's remorse, but I guess that is the American way "lets not take responsibilities for our actions let the lawers sort it out"

[poncho-mike]

pro-tour79,

I think the thing that you're missing is that he is mis-representing the cars he sells.

If I were to buy something from someone based on their description of "rust-free", and I received a poorly repaired rust bucket, I would consider that to be fraud.

There is a different level of knowledge you expect from a dealer of collector cars than what you would expect from an individual.

Mike

[pro-tour79]

in that case I would agree with you http://forums.performanceyears.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif, but did the seller know this and wasn't the car looked over by an expert?

[Bad Karma]

Well Its not the customers faults here AT ALL! He makes money making false statements. He pockets 2 grand plus evertime he takes a car back. Look earlier in the thread he lost about 5 judgements for MISREPRESENTATION! That shows a pattern and Gives everyone he ripped off a serious paper trail of a pattern. Sure hes finacially stable because No matter what happens with the car hes making good coin. Sure Ill take it back minus 2 grand then the next guy buys it off ebay and another 2 grand is made. Better yet they keep the car and he makes 10's of thousands in profit. SCREW THE DEALERS BUY PRIVATE. We all love our cars and know thier history that can pay off in the long run over a dealer. I WILL NEVER BUY FROM THIS SHIESTER!

[Newbomb Turk]

Hello, i too have dealt with this dealer and I and another person are currently suing the dealer for fraud and misrepresention. We are making good progress and welcome any others to join us. If any of you would like to contact me feel free and i will put you in contact with our lawyer. If you know of anyone else who has had dealings with this dealer please tell them about me. All my contact info is in my profile.

Thank you, Tim :)

[ks gto (Cap)]

Newbomb Turk- I'm the guy that started this thread. I am in the proccess of trying to contact you. I am mucho interested! Cap

[Newbomb Turk]

Got your PM. I'll call you tomorrow. Things are gonna get interesting from here. :biggerGri :D

[Ron Landis]

Just how does one explain that?

[Newbomb Turk]

Just how does one explain that?


Well, i bought a 1966 Plymouth Satellite. It was supposed to have a 1967 C code 375 horse HP 440. The 1st year of this motor. It has a 1970 440. It was supposed to be rust free with no panel replacement. It has rusty, poorly patched floors and the quarters are patches of sheetmetal and filler. It was supposed to be a turn key ready car. NON of the gauges work and the clutch slips under hard acceleration. I could go on but i think you get the point. And i have ALL this in print. Another guy bought a 1964 Plymouth Belvedere. It was supposed to have the #'S MATCHING 383, it has a 1963 361 and is in worse shape than mine body wise.

[6t7gto]

newbomb,
i'm just curious.
did you inspect this car firsthand before you bought it?
how about the other guy you mentioned?

david

[Pontiacmuscle]

NewBomb...please keep us posted. Thanks!

[Newbomb Turk]

newbomb,
i'm just curious.
did you inspect this car firsthand before you bought it?
how about the other guy you mentioned?

david

Does it matter? Fact is he put all these "facts" about these cars IN PRINT. All bold faced lies. And no, i didn't go look and neither did the the guy who bought the 64 Plymouth. Does this make it OK for the dealer to print false statements about the cars? NO. I will readily admit i should have gone to look. I have no problem with that. BUT, i DO have a problem with all the lies he put in print. FACT, my car is supposed to have a 1967 C CODE 440. FACT, it does not. FACT, my car is suppose to be RUST FREE. FACT, it is not. Etc..... People can use the argument all day long that i/we should have gone to look in person. It won't cut the mustard simply because he LIED. And this is the last i will debate about this. That is for the lawyer's and judge's.

P.S. I will do my best to keep you all abreast of the situation.

[6t7gto]

newbomb,
thanks for the reply.

david

[nonnova]

I'm not minimizing the fact that this place is misrepresenting the vehicles he is selling but I'm amazed at the number of people here who have dealt with this guy didn't look it over before buying.
I bought my Omega for $500. and spent an hour going over it! for $15,000 or more I'd go over it myself AND have a professional third party go over it.
He is in the wrong (in more ways then one) but if I don't see the car first hand, my money doesn't leave my hand.

[Newbomb Turk]

I'm not minimizing the fact that this place is misrepresenting the vehicles he is selling but I'm amazed at the number of people here who have dealt with this guy didn't look it over before buying.
I bought my Omega for $500. and spent an hour going over it! for $15,000 or more I'd go over it myself AND have a professional third party go over it.
He is in the wrong (in more ways then one) but if I don't see the car first hand, my money doesn't leave my hand.

Lesson learned here. I tended to be a very trusting person before all this. Not anymore. I guess i thought someone with a business reputation to think about would be a little more careful. Apparently the almighty $ is more important than a good reputation and being an honest person. Kinda sad. :(

[nonnova]

Apparently the almighty $ is more important than a good reputation and being an honest person. Kinda sad. :(
Judging by SportsCar's post, You hit the nail on the head with that.

P.S.
Thanks for the reminder with the classic screen name, My wife and I got our 15 year old son off World of Warcraft long enough last night to enjoy the "Nights"....he laughed his a$$ off.

[Newbomb Turk]

Judging by SportsCar's post, You hit the nail on the head with that.

P.S.
Thanks for the reminder with the classic screen name, My wife and I got our 15 year old son off World of Warcraft long enough last night to enjoy the "Nights"....he laughed his a$$ off.


:biggerGri Glad i could help. LOL

[TJH]

Anyone else notice that this dealer has really shied away from this thread ever since more of his dis-satisfied (and litigous) customers have appeared?
I grew up not far from where this clown has his business. After seeing all of this, and his classless commentary, I'll be sure to stay clear of him.
And, I'll tell all my friends that still live in/near Pittsburgh to do likewise...
Let's see what we can do about his aforementioned financial stability. He most definitely deserves to be out of business.

[Newbomb Turk]

Anyone else notice that this dealer has really shied away from this thread ever since more of his dis-satisfied (and litigous) customers have appeared?
I grew up not far from where this clown has his business. After seeing all of this, and his classless commentary, I'll be sure to stay clear of him.
And, I'll tell all my friends that still live in/near Pittsburgh to do likewise...
Let's see what we can do about his aforementioned financial stability. He most definitely deserves to be out of business.

A friend of mine moved down there for about the last year. Just came back. He went to some school down there for flight operations or something. Anyways, he went and had a look at some of the inventory a couple days before he came back and when he got back he told me most of the stuff is really poorly done. Tape and spray jobs.

[SpartanMSU]

I've got nothin' positive to add except he's selling a '71 Ranchero GT claiming for it to be a SCJ when they didn't build 'em in '71. All 429s were CJs for the Torino that year. Nice vehicle nonetheless . . .

[Doug Christie]

About a year and a half ago they started a Motor Dealer Council here where I live. It sets a code of stadards that ALL car dealers (new and used) have to follow. The sales men have to take a two day course ($500.00) to qualify for a licence to sell cars. The dealers have to post a bond to the "council" ($2500.00). If there's a dispute about the purchase they can have the council hear it and if the dealer is found to be guilty of an offence, the council will pay to the customer the amount in dispute and then go after the dealer for the balance. If the dealer doesn't want to pay, guess what, they pull his license. I took a dealer to court last year and won. The guy didn't want to follow the court order. I could have gone the "Motor Dealer" route, but decided to get a bailiff to go down and start towing vehicles. He paid up what he owed plus the bailiffs $600.00 charges. :D

[nonnova]

I've got nothin' positive to add except he's selling a '71 Ranchero GT claiming for it to be a SCJ when they didn't build 'em in '71. All 429s were CJs for the Torino that year. Nice vehicle nonetheless . . .
It does look nice. Every car on his site I checked out looks nice.....One thing I noticed is they all say the same thing in the description "The body is laser straight and there are no dents, no dings, no waves. I cannot find any body filler." and "Nails you back in the seat when you punch it and spins the tires through 70 MPH with a stab of the throttle!!" or some variation of that statement.

[J.C.you]

Man, after going thru this thread.........and I am not taking up for the dealer.........you guys that plunk 20k out without looking are asking for a royal scr..ing!

Just remember, DON'T impluse buy! There will always be another GTO, Mopar, or whatever out there..........

I hope everything works out between the parties involved and maybe a lesson is learned on buying expensive toys sight unseen.

[Newbomb Turk]

Here's what i thought i was buying.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/315407/scan.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/315407/scan0002.jpg


Here's what i got.

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=807557

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=795642


PLUS the wrong motor, no working gauges including speedo and a slipping clutch.

[LASJayhawk]

Maybe he can't find any body filler, since he put it all under the Macco paint job.

[Newbomb Turk]

Maybe he can't find any body filler, since he put it all under the Macco paint job.


:bounce:


Oh yah, my perfect no cracked steering wheel? It's not cracked but the black rattle can paint is coming off showing the lovely original green. :-ohwell: :doh:

[LASJayhawk]

Sorta like "rust free" means only the holes remain.

[nonnova]

Here's what i thought i was buying.

Here's what i got.

I hate to say it but a simple "walk around" would of steered you away from that purchase.

[bigunde]

http://sportscargallery.com/

[jimmy daniel]

Haven't heard much from Sportscar guy in a while. Think he regrets running that mouth and bragging about how much money he has. Sounds like some of that money might get redistributed.

[Newbomb Turk]

Here's all the pics from his add. I saved them.

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=769287

[TJH]

Wow- That car is a real turd.
I love the steel box used to prop up the seat! That is definitely factory original- it was part of a very rare optional seat height adjustment, which was only available through select dealers.
And the underbody rust is in reality a factory Chrysler "swiss cheese" lightweight drag racing track pack option package. Again, this was only available by special order, and then only available through dealers specifically licensed by Chrysler. These were sold from the factory with disclaimers regarding body structural integrity, since the sheetmetal was lightened by so much, that these cars would often break in half under any more power than that offered by a base slant six.
Of course, these cars now have legendary status, and are extremely rare and highly prized by collectors...
You lucky guy, you...

[Newbomb Turk]

Wow- That car is a real turd.
I love the steel box used to prop up the seat! That is definitely factory original- it was part of a very rare optional seat height adjustment, which was only available through select dealers.
And the underbody rust is in reality a factory Chrysler "swiss cheese" lightweight drag racing track pack option package. Again, this was only available by special order, and then only available through dealers specifically licensed by Chrysler. These were sold from the factory with disclaimers regarding body structural integrity, since the sheetmetal was lightened by so much, that these cars would often break in half under any more power than that offered by a base slant six.
Of course, these cars now have legendary status, and are extremely rare and highly prized by collectors...
You lucky guy, you...


LMFAO!!!! :bounce:

[Newbomb Turk]

Just keeping it on the top for any newbies. The more that read this the better. :)

[mr71transam]

Any progress on the Legal front?

[Newbomb Turk]

Any progress on the Legal front?


This has been ongoing for almost 2 years. I'm hoping for a court date or out of court settlement by this summer.

[J.C.you]

I hate to say it but a simple "walk around" would of steered you away from that purchase.

exactly what i thought........

shame on him for not describing the car accurately........

shame on you for not doing what nonnova stated..........

hummnn.. what would Judy Judy rule? partial fault by each party?

i would be surprised if you receive all your money back if this case goes before a judge. or better yet find a liberal judge......

it would be better to settle before...... consider it a lesson on purchasing sight unseen.........

[jjscerbo]

The old phrase still holds true:

"INSPECT WHAT YOU EXPECT"

[GreysonWinfieldEsq]

Maybe he meant free rust and not rust free?

[Newbomb Turk]

Looks like pre-trial stuff is going to be around June according to the Lawyer. Unless he offers a very decent settlement.

[Greg Reid]

....shame on him for not describing the car accurately........
shame on you for not doing what nonnova stated..........
hummnn.. what would Judy Judy rule? partial fault by each party?
i would be surprised if you receive all your money back if this case goes before a judge. or better yet find a liberal judge......
it would be better to settle before...... consider it a lesson on purchasing sight unseen.........

I'm no lawyer but I'm thinking No way!
The way I look at it, it's like leaving the keys in your car. It's careless but it doesn't excuse someone from prosecution if they decide to steal the car.
If the seller misrepresented the cars, the buyer should in no way be held responsible because they took his written word at face value when it turns out that he lied.
The results of the past cases posted earlier bear that out I believe.
And besides....they are paying a price, in a sense, just by having to go through all of this litigation and legal wrangling to get their money back...years in at least one case.

[Newbomb Turk]

Thanks for the feedback, and bump to the top for newbies.

[J.C.you]

I'm no lawyer but I'm thinking No way!
The way I look at it, it's like leaving the keys in your car. It's careless but it doesn't excuse someone from prosecution if they decide to steal the car.
If the seller misrepresented the cars, the buyer should in no way be held responsible because they took his written word at face value when it turns out that he lied.
The results of the past cases posted earlier bear that out I believe.
And besides....they are paying a price, in a sense, just by having to go through all of this litigation and legal wrangling to get their money back...years in at least one case.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

don't think anyone is stealing a car, so how would this be a comparision?

Lying about the condition of a car could be solved by a simple.......

look before you leap........ so how could a judge not consider negligence on

the buyers' part?

[Newbomb Turk]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

don't think anyone is stealing a car, so how would this be a comparision?

Lying about the condition of a car could be solved by a simple.......

look before you leap........ so how could a judge not consider negligence on

the buyers' part?


I readily admit i should have looked in person. But the fact is he lied. Period. And he put all those lies in print. There is no way around that fact.

[Crooked Car Dealer]

For what it's worth...

I own a dealership and it doesn't matter if it wasn't thouroughly inspected by the buyer. The dealer made statements in writing about the vehicle, anybody who has bought a car from a dealer has signed a Buyer's Guide. The Buyer's Guide explains all of this and has info on who to contact if there is an issue.

[Greg Reid]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

don't think anyone is stealing a car, so how would this be a comparision?

Lying about the condition of a car could be solved by a simple.......

look before you leap........ so how could a judge not consider negligence on

the buyers' part?


The comparison is that carelessness on the part of the first party does not excuse a crime on the part of the second party.

[slowgto]

I don't fault Newbomb from buying the car unseen. It's expensive and takes time to go look at cars. The good ones sell quick too. If you can look at it, that is the best, but sometimes you can't.

I had a friend in Texas that bought a Judge from Sports, which is in PA, a few months ago. I pointed him toward this post, but he was undetered. He was close to buying the car but I got him to hold off a day so he could speak to the last owner, to make sure he got an honest description of the GTO. When he called back to finalize the deal, Sports increased the price $5,000. He ended up paying the original, full asking price, which was his call.

I don't understand these dealers that get their kicks misrepresenting cars. You can surely make more money being honest and respected for your expertise. And wouldn't you rather have a friendly client list of repeat customers and refferals than a bunch of nasty phone calls, law suites, and returned cars?

[Newbomb Turk]

Well, after getting the OK from the lawyer i sold the car. Had it on Racing Junk and several other sites. Sold it locally for $8000. The lawsuit is still in process. I needed to sell the car because i'm downsizing my shop and will have no place to store it.

[6t7gto]

This should be interesting since you sold the car.
what's the lawyer care?
he'll get his fee no matter what.
what if the seller would decide to buy it back from you?

david

[Newbomb Turk]

This should be interesting since you sold the car.
what's the lawyer care?
he'll get his fee no matter what.
what if the seller would decide to buy it back from you?

david

The lawyer get's nothing if we don't win. He's working on a contingecy. The dealer has had 2 YEARS to make any offers.

[i82much]

Duh - I just suggested you get a lawyer, then I read the whole thread. If you read this post before I edited it, ignore it!

For those of you considering whether to contact that lawyer - I'd say the more the merrier. You guys can split the cost of your lawyer, he has to pay all his legal fees himself. Makes a guy much more inclined to settle.

[ks gto (Cap)]

Naw--he won't settle. I'm the guy that started this whole thread - I know him and those like him. He is clueless as to the value of a satisfied customer. He doesn't realize that bad news travels faster and farther. In the long term it will all catch up to him. For now it's "gettem while it's good", with him.
For some time now, I have been talking to the same Attny that Newbomb Turk is using. I am also engaging his services under the same arrangement. This dealer has also had the opportunity to settle with me and chooses to arrogantly react in a manner that will eventually cost him much more (I refer to his posts and attitude throughout this thread).
I have struggled with the issue for sometime. I do understand the "buyer beware" concept, however I keep coming back to the misrepresentation issue and that won't allow me to just shrug it off. No one on this forum really knows me--but I am of the school that my integrity and my word is everything. That is all we really have in this life and those traits mean more to me than money. Therefore what is right is right and what this dealer represents needs to be held accountable and dealt with. Sad that it has to be decided by a judge, but that's his call. Cap

[kookykrispy]

I just read through this post and this Sportscar guy seems like a total arrogant piece of nothing a$$hole. I hope you drag his snotty a$$ into court and let him have it for misrepresentation. I cannot believe how huge of a crappy attitude this guy has to post the kind of replies he did. I would never, ever buy anything from him, and obviously nobody else should do business with this crooked fool.

[Newbomb Turk]

Well, one more guy has jumped on board. He didn't buy a car from Sports Car Gallery. He actually sold 1 to them and long story short, the dealer misrepresented the car when he advertised it and made several threats via email to this gentleman accusing him of telling lies about the car because people were contacting him before taking the dealers word. There is much more to it but he is going to be used as a charcter witness if we need him. He kept all the emails between the dealer and him. The dealer guy is a real piece of work.

[pmdclassics]

Aahh the mighty big talkin Doctor that has tons of wealth!! He's the Biggest hot shot in the classic car business....This DOC loves to leave threatening messages on the answering machine, loves to swear, curse and verbally abuse your family members, loves to use the word ***GOT over and over and over and over again and again and again and again....yes he's got class! I am so glad I decided not to sell my gto to the Sportscar Gallery!!

I personally have only had 2 really bad car deals in the past 20 years and both directly with east coast car dealers.

[6t7gto]

Whatever became of this?
Any settlement or still ongoing?


david

[ks gto (Cap)]

David- Lemme bring you to speed on what I know. I was contacted by Newbomb Turk urging me to contact this attny he talks about. I did and we discussed things for a few months. I agreed to proceed if he would also do it on contingency. He asked me to compile a list of represented condition vs. actual. I spent a week compiling the list (I'm sure I missed some things but the point was made when I got done). I sent it to the attny and he answered back saying it was just what was needed and he would prepare everything to submit. I waited 3 weeks and hearing nothing, I contacted him to check if we were on track. He then emailed me saying he had changed his mind, because his practice had caught hold and he could make more handling personal bankruptcy cases. Obviously, I was frustrated as I had finally come to the resolve to seek justice by taking someone to court--not something I take lightly by the way. Mostly, I just didn't want someone with those kind of business practices to succeed.
I have tried to contact Newbomb Turk to find out if he was able to see his case thru, but I get no response.
Where do I go from here? I have not touched the car yet nor have I driven it except to two restoration houses so that they may examine it. I am not done with this issue, but I would like to refrain from disclosing my intensions at this point-I hope you understand. Suffice it to say I am not done. I will post as things develop. Cap

[oldtimebaseballfan]

Cap and newbomb, has anything happened in your cases?
Cap, are you on TeamChevelle.com ?

[Newbomb Turk]

Here's my latest. His lawyer tried to file a motion to have the pics and video i made of the car dismissed claiming they weren't introduced in the proper time frame. When the lawyers were standing before the judge my lawyer pulled out a fed ex receipt proving that it was done in the proper time frame. The judge was apparently less than happy about this waste of his time. The other lawyer was very apologetic and embaressed. :) I'm still waiting for an actual court date, if it goes that far.

[ks gto (Cap)]

oldtimebaseballfan- nothing new to date. No, I haven't been on TeamChevelle.com. Are there postings there, also?
Newbomb Turk- You still have the same attny? I lost a lot of respect for him, when he had me do all that work and then dropped the whole deal like "a hot rock" and bailed on me. He even told me he would try hard to find someone to take up my cause. Good luck.
Cap