What would you do?

[6567GTO]

I'm in the planning stage of the restoration process of my 67 GTO convertible. The car has been sitting for 25 yrs. (God - where has the time gone?) and needs total restoration. The car is 100% there, meaning all the parts are on the car but it doesn't have the original motor. And it has no options other then the power top. It has a bench seat with a 3 sp. std. trans. I recently had it documented through Pontiac Historical Services and one thing I hoped to find out was what color it was originally. They said something like "color not known". I checked some of the hidden spots and now know that it was a shade of Turquoise. It has a black top and interior.

Questions;

1. Is it worth doing a frame off restoration on?
2. What should I do about the color?
3. Should I upgrade things like the brakes and steering?

I honestly don't know whether I have the patience and/or time to do a frame off. It was my dad's car and I plan on keeping it and would eventually like to hand it over to my son or daughter if they want it later. Also, I should mention that I'd like to drive it as often as I can once it is done. I'm in the group that feels these cars should be driven.

What do you think I should do with her?

Thanks for any and all comments,

Phil

Note: (I'm thinking of doing a "ground up" rather then a frame off. I'm also thinking that I should upgrade the brakes and steering. The color I'm still debating.)

[6567GTO]

I'm in the planning stage of the restoration process of my 67 GTO convertible. The car has been sitting for 25 yrs. (God - where has the time gone?) and needs total restoration. The car is 100% there, meaning all the parts are on the car but it doesn't have the original motor. And it has no options other then the power top. It has a bench seat with a 3 sp. std. trans. I recently had it documented through Pontiac Historical Services and one thing I hoped to find out was what color it was originally. They said something like "color not known". I checked some of the hidden spots and now know that it was a shade of Turquoise. It has a black top and interior.

Questions;

1. Is it worth doing a frame off restoration on?
2. What should I do about the color?
3. Should I upgrade things like the brakes and steering?

I honestly don't know whether I have the patience and/or time to do a frame off. It was my dad's car and I plan on keeping it and would eventually like to hand it over to my son or daughter if they want it later. Also, I should mention that I'd like to drive it as often as I can once it is done. I'm in the group that feels these cars should be driven.

What do you think I should do with her?

Thanks for any and all comments,

Phil

Note: (I'm thinking of doing a "ground up" rather then a frame off. I'm also thinking that I should upgrade the brakes and steering. The color I'm still debating.)

[Larry 67]

I'm doing a frameoff on my 67...rust damage being the deciding factor for me. Plus when I'm done I don't want any suprises...as far as brakes and steering I'm definately upgrading to disc in the front...and going with a quicker ratio steering gearbox. Anyway ya slice it a frameoff is slow going...and sometimes frustrating...but will be well worth it in the end. I'm blessed in that I have a friend who's done this many times, and is one of the best body and paint guy's I've seen. He's done several 62 Pont. Catalinas and they're beautiful. To barter the time spent on my car I'm helping him complete a 62 Cat thats on the rotessorie now...almost ready for paint..then mine is next. I figure since I don't live close to Jim Darlington...this is the next best I can do. My original color was Montreux Blue which I don't like...so at my wifes request I'm going to change it to the 67 Burgandy...also the interior will go to black from the origal parchment. My original engine is who knows where... I have several options there..I have'nt decide yet...400 or 455...so I'm not original anyways...also I plan to add a rear stablizer kit and box the control arms. Good Luck and let us know what ya decide....Don't have a spare set of good 670 heads do ya???? Anyone????

['ol Pinion head]

Phil,
It's your car, & if you plan on making a driver out of it, nothing wrong with painting it any color you like. No color code, hmmm... ran across one trim tag on a '67 GTO, that said "PRIME" on it, in that case, shouldn't matter, even if you were trying to build a very high point car out of it.

Personally, I'd convert to 4 spd Muncie, & leave it bench seat. Maybe add a Sport steering wheel & some nice wheels... would not load it up with expensive geegaw options. Single piston '69+ GTO disc brakes are very popular upgrade, as is powersteering & both would be smart additions.

Frame-on's, I'm not a fan of them at all. Simply for the reason, can't easily fix eventual structural prob's this way... there are always problem areas. Trying to make the chassis look half way nice, & then being confined by not having access to a loose rolling frame is a big mistake,IMHO. Lifting the body off the frame is not that hard & you don't neccessarily need a rotisseree. Might search the archives on this. Don posted the lifting the body subject about a year ago.

The body can be lifted, supported by landscape timbers, the rolling chassis rolled out, powerwashed, degreased, disassembled, & blasted. Next control arms can be prepped & painted, or powdercoated (cheaper), new lines installed, suspension pieces rebuilt & reassembled. Lastly, the frame rails can be wrapped tight with bisquine so overspray from the body will not get on the chassis & new lines. Once the underside of body is thoroughly(sp) clean, repaired, metal conditioned, primed & painted, you can lay the body back on the frame with new body bushings & new bolts. After final bodywork & paint, the the bisquine is carefully cut with a razor blade & removed.

One of the main concerns in any resto...have to stop the rust. No easier way to do the job, than lifting the body. Personally, anything I work on with 25+ year old fuel, brake lines, & body bushings, they get replaced.

[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: ol' Pinion head ]</p>

[6567GTO]

I guess it's just that I've never done a frame off. One of my worries is not being able to remove the body mount bolts. Any tips on the body mount bolts or do they typically come out fairly easily? I remember someone on this board showing pics of his frame off and in those pics were some showing the wood frame he made. If you think it's worth the effort maybe I could give it a try. One more thing that I didn't mention in the first post is that the car did have an accident when my dad owned it and the left front rail needs a little straightening. A bodyman that I know said it looked like an easy fix. Should this be done prior to pulling the body off or after? Or does this make even more sense to do a frame off.

Thanks,
Phil

[jim darlington]

Hey Phil ,
Turn it into a WAXER like your other 67 !!!! LOL . If it was your dad's car and you want to pass it on , Do it right . It's not that hard to do a frame off . Just alot of time and $$$$ , like anything else . However I would be careful with the advise Larry gave you . He works on Geo's !! Only busting your chops Larry .

[6567GTO]

Ha ha ha! Waxer - I miss those guys over on PP1. Well I think you guys are convincing me to do it right. A frame off would be nice to own especially since it was dad's car.

Roger - putting a 4 sp. in it is a good idea. I'll have to find a shifter with the proper stick for a bench. The steering wheel is all cracked so that would need changing. A wood one would be nice. As far as the rims I think I'll use the Rally II's I talked to you about. Being that it's a "Plain Jane" I don't think I'll really take away from it's value if I go to another color. The paint code says "1-2" with "87501" directly under it.

Larry - I picked up a power steering setup (box & pump) years ago from another 67 GTO. Did they have a quicker ratio then non-power? I'll probably buy another brake kit from St. Steel Brake like the one on my 65. It works with the 14" Rally II's.

Jim - What about the frame? Should that be straightened before or after the body comes off?

Thanks,
Phil

[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: 6567GTO ]</p>

[jim darlington]

Phil ,
Repair the frame with the body on it . After the frame has been straightened you will need to align the sheet metal to the frame . Even though the frame has been put back to factory specs , sometimes the sheet metal neeeds a little tweaking here and there .

[6567GTO]

Thanks Jim- I kinda thought that it should be done before hand. That will be my first order of business. First I have to finish the motor pull on the 65, then switch the cars from one side of the garage to the other. The side where the 65 is has more room. I think I'm gonna need it!

Thanks again

[6567GTO]

What color would you guys choose?

[Larry 67]

Hey!!!!! GEO or GTO....pretty close...well not really. They are not the safest car on the road...but are easy to work on and cheap to operate...thus more $$$ for the GTO. Phil..I'm not sure of the turn ratio on your steering box...but PY sells the new tighter ratio box...or yours can be sent in if ya want to keep your original..NAPA has a direct bolt on too...if ya want the Napa # let me know and I'll dig it up.
As far as color yours was probably a special order...but your documentation should tell ya. I know my brother just ordered a new pickup and had it painted the GRAND AM Purple...it cost 140.00 extra...also had to be available in Dupont as thats what our plant uses. So maybe thats a possible explaination to your paint situation. Since you gotta paint it ...go for what ya like...if the woman had'nt picked Burgandy for ours...I would've went with RED....What color is your other cars???? I hope to have enough paint left to paint my Metro convertable a matching Burgandy..... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ....Good Luck....larry

[jim darlington]

Phil ,
How about Mary Kay Pink ????
LOL I always liked a rare color for 67 . You don't see it on alot of 67's , but when done right it's a knock out . Plum mist with a white top and parchment interior !!!

[Tim Swain]

What ever kind of resteration you choose it's difficalt and expensive, if it's done right. I had to choose what part I would do and what part a professional RESTORER would do. I chose to do the mechanical and bought the tools to do it. The proper tools for a paint and body job were a hole other story plus the learning curve and TIME. I striped the car of paint myself in a heated restoration shop to save money. It took four long days, it's how I brought in the newyear 2000 worked right through midnight. I loved it. I used aircraft stiper. :eek: I worked over time to make the money to give the body man. A good paint is gonna cost 6000 to 8000. Price the tools consider the time. Every one who sees my car is wowed. If I had done the body work myself somehow I think the reaction would be differant.

[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: 0 ]</p>