put a 454 in my TA?

[thenunz]

I have an opportunity to get a truck 454 and 4 speed trans(I believe it's a early 80s truck with like 60k) for free. I have another friend that has been rebuilding engines for 40 years(specializing in Chevys) and really knows his stuff. He will help me to put it all together. He has a machine shop at his house. I was thinking of making a 496 out of it and putting it in my 79 TA w/ it's 403 (which fairly built is still kinda mild).

Am I wrong for this? It will be way cheaper than finding and building a 455 and far easier. The car is strictly a driver, mostly original, colar will be different soon and I would love to have the 454 or 482 or whatever built form that nice block in there.

So many traditionalists scream at me for this but I know the 403 hard top TA is not rare or very valueable. The drivetrain is very modified so even if it did have value from rarity, it is gone now.

[Bad Karma]

I would do it. Sounds like an easy cheaper way to make more power.

[Jeffzilla]

the purists will scream and rant, but so what its your car, and this is America. Go for it .

[Jeff Walker]

Is the 4 speed transmission from the truck also? If so it will NOT fit in a car, any car for that matter.

[thenunz]

I thought that may be the case, my friend has 2 car 4 speeds I can use.

[Mr. P-Body]

The "kit" for building a 496 is about the same price as a 461 for the 400 Pontiac. At street-level performance builds, the Pontiac has a slight edge (low-end). The 496 is beast, without a doubt. BBC parts are no less expensive than Pontiacs, and in many cases, higher. It's the small block that has all the "cheap" goodies.

One other significant factor is the weight. The BBC is a bunch heavier than the Olds or the Pontiac, making the car a bit "nose heavy". If you've ever driven a big block Camaro, you get the idea. If you drive the car as a T/A, the Pontiac would be a better choice. If you're looking for brute power in a straight line, and are willing to use race gas and maybe spray it a bit, the BBC is the better choice.

Also, the heads on a BBC truck engine make better doorstops than cylinder heads. Look for some aftermarket aluminum jobs to really make the whole thing worthwhile.

Jim

[SlowSpitzer]

Yep, what Jim said. I got my rotating assembly for my 455 to go to 468, crank, rods, pistons, pins, rings, and all bearings for $1,700.

[thenunz]

I thought there wasn't much difference between the BBC and BBP (455,lol) weightwise. I do understand that parts are really not cheaper for either but I am getting most of mine for free(he has many sets of heads and will give them to me for 150-200 a set, and almost free intake and headers(hookers)) plus lots of free work from someone who has specilized on this engine for 4 decades.

If I found a cheap 400 or 455 block in CT, I'd grab it; that 496 kit I saw was $695 so I don't know how much the 461 kit is.

[Judas]

Id got with the Chevy with all those freebies thrown in. I dont know about the Pontiac weight, but I do agree it will make the car nose heavy as I had a 454 in a 79 myself. You could really notice it on the high speed turns (exit ramps and freeways that merge together. I had the basic Camaro so I dont know if bigger sway bars (or a rear sway bar) would help.

[thenunz]

I thought that the TA had a better suspension and subframe than a Camaro? I doa have the bigger sway bar and new shocks and of course I'll get BB springs.

[ventura7211]

While the stroker kits for a pontiac and chevy are about the same, the main difference is what you get for $1700:

Pontiac: cast crank, h-beam rods, name brand forged pistons, pins rings, locks

Chevy: 4340 Forged steel crank, h-beam rods, name brand forged pistons, pins rings, locks

If you want a cast crank kit, its alot cheaper. If you can afford it, aluminum heads and intake sheds alot of weight off the motors. There isn't a whole great deal of difference of weight between the blocks, actually a Dart Big M is lighter than a IAII block. A stock bbc block is a little heavier than a stock pontiac block, the exact figure escapes me right now.

Its all what you want to do, I was going to put a bbc in my ventura but I decided to build a 3rd gen camaro instead, its all in what you want to do and can afford.

[TA454]

[QUOTE=Mr. P-Body]The "kit" for building a 496 is about the same price as a 461 for the 400 Pontiac. At street-level performance builds, the Pontiac has a slight edge (low-end). The 496 is beast, without a doubt. BBC parts are no less expensive than Pontiacs, and in many cases, higher. It's the small block that has all the "cheap" goodies. "


Wrong the complete rotating assembly for a 496 is cheaper
Roughly @ $1500 for a forged crank(betya wish you could say that),H-beam rods, And SRP pistons


" One other significant factor is the weight. The BBC is a bunch heavier than the Olds or the Pontiac, making the car a bit "nose heavy". If you've ever driven a big block Camaro, you get the idea. If you drive the car as a T/A, the Pontiac would be a better choice. If you're looking for brute power in a straight line, and are willing to use race gas and maybe spray it a bit, the BBC is the better choice. "

Wrong again I had to cut the stock springs when i did the conversion

" Also, the heads on a BBC truck engine make better doorstops than cylinder heads. Look for some aftermarket aluminum jobs to really make the whole thing worthwhile. "

Strike Three Your info is out.
The oval port truck heads will make TONS of low RPM torque. A stock 100,000 mile 454 with a performer cam and intake,750 vaccum secondary holley. 2400 holeshot converter, and 4.11 gears moved my car 13.4 when I first built it 13 yrs ago.

My current 10 second 496 is still using a set of oval port cast iron merlin heads. That is even with out the benifit of a roller cam.

[Bad Karma]

One thing I need to advise is there isnt any BBP motor from 326 to 455 they are all the same size physically on the outside. 301 is the only one IIRC that the block is not the same.

[Colin]

Dont the 454 truck blocks have a taller deck? And requires the use of intake manifold spacers to use an aftermarket intake?

[Colin]

By the way I dont care what you put in your car....its yours so you can do what you want. I have no problem with someone wanting to use a Chevy engine. Just thought I would mention that about the blocks.
I remember reading about the truck blocks having a taller deck than car blocks.......I may be wrong though.

[Jeff Walker]

Dont the 454 truck blocks have a taller deck? And requires the use of intake manifold spacers to use an aftermarket intake?

The meduim duty trucks do, but not a pickup truck. Gotta get into the C60-C6500 series trucks before you run into the tall deck blocks.

[Mr. P-Body]

My information is based on many things. In particular, I recently installed a "496" kit in a 454 block. Balanced, the kit was $2,100. That's straight from Eagle. The Pontiac is actually a bit cheaper, but balancing is required, leveling the costs. Now, your Herbert or Summit "kit" may be cheaper, but you get what you pay for. The Eagle kits ALL use similar pistons, rings and bearings. True enough, the Chevy is a forging. Nope, don't "wish" I could say that. The cast cranks for Pontiacs are fine up to the level of power most are making. FWIW, I DO have a 990 stashed for a real race engine.

I would avoid using a cast crank in BBC for performance. We've seen MANY factory cranks broken, and our experience with the cast steel units is they are not as strong as the factory iron units (400SB AND 454). Chevys have forgings out of necessity, not luxury.

The "good" oval port heads came from '68-'69 396 and 427. The 402/454 heads have a less desireable combustion chamber (size and configuration). The Merlin oval ports you speak of are more similar to a ported set of the earlier heads. Fuel-injection heads have tiny intake ports and while they DO make good low-end, they make no high-end at all.

A 454 block weighs just over 240 lbs. A 455 Pontiac weighs 180. (I just weighed both) A 454 head weighs a little over 80 lbs. A Pontiac head weighs right at 65. If you have iron heads on that BBC, you outweigh a Pontiac by at least 100 lbs.

My stock-as-a-rock '70 GTO Ram Air III car went 13.63 @ 108 in 1973, 3.55s and G70-14s. 396 Chevelles HATED me... I did get beat by one once. Once.........

So your 496 Chevy runs almost as hard as Greg Miller's 461 (10.50s, 3,400 lb. Firebird)? Is that on 93 octane? His is... His is also a flat tappet cam.

I think I just drew a walk... (:-

As a shop owner and engine builder, I build plenty of BBCs. Some of the nastier ones in the area, actually. I have a great deal of respect for them, as I do for the small block. I simply don't agree a Chevy is the end-all/use-all engine. They have advantages and disadvantages, just like any other engine family.

Jim

[68birdfreak]

I currently own a 68 firebird that I am removing a 402 bbc 437hp 453tq and replacing it with a 428 badboy pontiac. If I didn't have the money I would have left the bbc in it. Drives my chev buddies nutz and my pontiac buddies nuts. I have always been a chev guy but have betrayed my roots and flipped to Pontiacs beauty and excitement. I have seen the light and youwill one day too young padiwan warrior! For now, cruise what you can but you may find yourself doing it right later! good luck and ponchos forever!!!

[thenunz]

Mr P-Body, thank you so much for the real low down. That was some excellent information and I appreciate it greatly. I have pretty much decided to leave the 403 in there, as money dictates(went to the dentist, bad...). Too bad I wasn't into Mustangs, I can get a good 460 anytime I want, but I like cars made for men, not women....

The 403 is pretty built, I think I just need a new rear with 3.23s or 3.42s to really wake it up. It has 2.41s now. I think also maybe a heads swap might be in order as I have no idea what pistons are in there (supposedely forged high CR ones). Maybe next spring after several raises at my job (union) I can afford a 455 and the grand to make it pretty fast (anything under 13 seconds is awesome in my book). Plus everything else will be done on the car as I'm putting it in a real garage this weekend-sucks working in mud and rocks but I'm used to it from my Jeep :rolleyes:

[Colin]

The meduim duty trucks do, but not a pickup truck. Gotta get into the C60-C6500 series trucks before you run into the tall deck blocks.
Thanks for the clarification Jeff. I had heard people talk about it and had read about them but all I saw/heard was "truck".....no specifications on any certain truck blocks.
Thanks again, good info,
Colin

[ujt389]

Go for the chevy motor. I dont really see any reson not too, especially if you will come out financially on top. Many will say ( and have a valid point) that pontiacs make more torque, but with a 500 inch motor I dont think that torque production will be too low, leaving you dissapointed and wanting more.
By the way, I have ridden in a big block camaro (had about 550 to 600 hp), and it did handle quite nicely too. It even had a stock style suspension.

[PunchT37]

I was told yesterday that it was a "disgrace" to put any Pontiac engine into any chevy body and "the right thing to do" to put a chevy motor into a Pontiac body because the Pontiac would finally run. All this from a guy running 11.0`s in a gutted `79 T/A with a 454. Not that it`s a bad time,but no Pontiac engine can run 11.0`s in a gutted T/A? By the way, he wants to make a t-shirt with an Indian Chief riding on a rat instead of a horse. Sounds like a lotta mouth for a punk.

[TA454]

he wants to make a t-shirt with an Indian Chief riding on a rat instead of a horse.

LOL
I'll take one of those shirts in XXL

[PunchT37]

LOL
I'll take one of those shirts in XXL
I figured i`d get ya to come runnin on that one. The dude was just bustin my balls so i figured i`d send it here to share the love.:)