Caddy 500 into a 72 abody ? ANYONE, done this??

[Bad Karma]

Just curious if it's worthwhile. I was thinking I may use one to replace the crappy 350 I have now.
I ask because I read this and for someone who needs a torque mosnter on a 4 cylinder budget I think the caddy engine maybe a fun experiment.

http://cad500parts.com/catalog/page7.htm


http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Pit/9364/Guide.htm

[kookykrispy]

yeah, do it...

500 caddys make sick torque and power for cheap

[Bad Karma]

ANyone know about bulldog heads?

[Pontiacmuscle]

The Bulldog heads I believe are the best heads that are offered for the 500. Id give a call to Al at MTS or Potters Automotive who built a WILD combo with them. I have the article somewhere. I have a running 500 sitting in the garage looking for an engine bay myself. Keep us posted on this one.
Theres a guy who I see regularly in Hot Rod or car Craft who runs 10's with a '88 500 powered LX with a 250 HP NOS shot.

[goatasaurus rex]

go for it. it dont think it would cause any animosity at all. 500 cad is an odd man out just like pontiac. not at all the same deal as transplanting a crappy orange colored thing into your pontiac!

[Bad Karma]

Thanks guys I appreciate it.

['ol Pinion head]

Good local buddy has a 480+ cube 472 Caddy in his '70 Chevelle factory stocker (circletrack car). Before being parked last Spring, it was a 5 year in a row track champion. Custom pistons, cam, & considerable headwork were needed to make the higher rpm HP & Torque. Engine is very strong, even with cast iron intake & exhaust manifolds... both required for the class. The stock Caddy RH ex manifold was cut & surface ground, then cast iron welded to a likewise '68-72 BBC Chevelle lower section. Same thing could be done on a street install. Mark also built a set of custom headers. I prob could get pics.

There are several companys (one in NM) that cater to the 472-500 Caddy crowd. The only high compression 500 is the '70 Eldo engine, & it made its higher CR with different pistons. I'd love to see a set of Bulldogs on a race built 480.

[455HOGT37]

I have a 514 inch Cad in my 68 ElCo. Once you get the oil pan and engine mounts figured out, it is pretty easy. You will need a smaller diameter brake booster (mine is off a 81 TA), modify the AC evaporator case (Fiberglass, easy) and if you have the concealed windshield wipers, you will likely have to dimple the valve cover.

I run the stock low compression pistons, but I have milled and ported the heads (1970 castings-the "best" stockers), ported the stock intake, and added a mild cam. I still have the stock cast iron exhaust manifolds dumping into 2.5 inch pipes with Flowmasters to the back bumper. The car has the suspension and TH400 (w/GM-6 converter) from my old 68 Goat. The car has been the most reliable "old car" I ever had. I've been driving it for 10 years now and it has required only routine maintenance.

[Bad Karma]

MY Idea was a 572 stroker with aluminum heads. If I figured right It can be done for less than half of the price of those Chebby 572 crate engines. Thats ALOT of cubic inches. If my car came with a pontiac motor I wouldnt change the driveline but I got the car very cheap because it had already had the Pontiac engine replaced with a chettie. Now I am always looking for pontiac motors but in the NE they want gold for non running blocks. Shipping from out of state ends up being close to the same. I am just considering this as a way for me to get Massive Cubes on a poor man budget.

[BruceWilkie]

There is a guy near me that swapped a Caddy 472 into his80(?) turbo Monte Carlo wicked fast an absolute sleeper of a car. Stock appearing, quiet and relatively light. Do it!!!

[Bad Karma]

Seems Like everyone is happy with the swap once its completed. I am seriously considering this avenue for a number of reasons.

[Pontiacmuscle]

Wonder how much fun a 500 would be in a '79 GP w/ T-tops?

[badone07]

Wonder how much fun a 500 would be in a '79 GP w/ T-tops?

There is someone who did an 80 Lemans. Ran a best of 10.55 at around 3400-3500 lbs. Specs are in this link... http://www.cadillacpower.com/forum/index.php/topic,728.0.html . Or someone could just go to http://www.cadillacpower.com go to the forums, advance search user name "cooke" and Lemans. However, after bottomend problems, he has since gone with a BBC.

[455HOGT37]

The advantage of the Cad engine is the ability to pull 450-500 HP out of them cheaper than just about anything. After that level however you are into a lot of custom parts, and that makes the HP per dollar ratio less attractive.

To anyone planning a conversion from scratch, I would suggest putting a running junkyard engine in first. This allows you to work out all the bugs before investing the dollars in a "killer" engine. In my particular case, I used an old 472 that had been in my back yard for 15 years as a "dummy" engine for fabrication of mounts and other mechanical interfaces. As it was frozen from rust I never expected it to run again, but after the install I gave it a shot. I pulled the heads and honed the cylinders from the pistons up, and finally got it to turn. Once back together it fired right up and I was eventually able to drive it to the muffler shop and even have it SMOG certified (California). I drove that old 472 long enough (it eventually spun a rod bearing) to know the Cad thing would work, so I built a 500 for it.

Even today, you can still find an engine for under 100 bucks. Add a good rebuild, a cam, and a set of adapted BBC headers, you will have a pretty strong engine for cheap. Throw a 150 HP shot of nitrous at it, and you will be king of the street.

[Bad Karma]

Thats what I like to hear!!!!!!

[Pontiacmuscle]

I found a complete '72 Eldo Convrt for $250 that ran (80k) and I sold most of the parts I didnt want/need to recoupe the cost of the car/ transport. Any BOP trans will bolt up as the TH425 trasaxle was based on a TH400. I cleaned it up and painted it and its on a stand waiting for a car......

[Pontiacmuscle]

A couple on Evilbay right now........
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4623443418&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1

[Bad Karma]

I was glad to hear that I could reach the 500 Hp mark without too much expense. I would be very happy with 500 plus foot lbs of tourque and 500 hp. Sounds like it can be done cheaper than a pontiac engine.

[Bad Karma]

Now I just have to find a donor car and I am good to go.

[speedshopmike]

i have a friend who has a 500 caddy in a 67 lemans.
fits very nicely, kept teh a/c mounted dead center in teh valley, etc.
no issues, torque monster, fun, different.

[Bad Karma]

Very nice speedshop. Have you driven isn this? How did it compare to driving a poncho powered mill?

[Safariman]

Had a friend here that had a 500 in a '78 Skylark. Had to notch the A/C housing, and custom build mounts and pan, but dam it looked wild with fender to fender motor. He eventually got one of the aftermarket intakes that raised the carb above the intake ports. Made a huge difference in performance.

[Pontiacmuscle]

Now I really wanna put that 500 into my '79 GP!

[Bad Karma]

I am on a very very tight budget that includes me having to pay for all the labor due to a back injury 5 years ago I cant do work that much on cars. For a big un like the GP I think a caddy engine would be excellent. I know through my research that stock you wont get much over 4400 rpm on the stock valve springs. That means atleast a cam change ( and springs) would be in order to make it perform more like a performance engine. I know one thing they are not known for tossing stock rods at the slightest touch over 5500. A huge plus for me anyway. I got my 72 lemans cheap because it came with a SBC. Sure I would love to convert it back to a pontiac BUT after blowing 5 pontiac engines all rod issues, I can not buy a used engine and just throw it in. I would need to rebuild the pontiac motor with atleast aftermarket rods. I do one day plan to install a pontiac engine back in BUT I wont put anything but a fresh rebuild and modified one after blowing so many up over the years.

So that leads me to the caddy swap. I could live with swapping a cam and getting and after market intake, mild port work on the heads and have a 500 plus HP and 600 plus ft lbs of torque engine to live with while I build my dream engine. They are out there but not as easy to find as they say. Not one junkyard in CT had one when I called. I know they even make stroker cranks to go up to 572 CI. Thats BIG cubes for a poor man budget. Atleast its in the BOP family instead of chebby. Keep me posted on the project!

[impish]

rear wheel drive 500's are mid sump pans, eldorado has the rear sump pan. motor mounts are further forward than pontiacs are ans will need to be relocated if retining original transmission/driveline location/setup.. hood clearance may be a issue with the aluminum intake in venturas/ later lemans, not sure on older lemans & big cars

[Pontiacmuscle]

The 500 that I have came from that '72 Eldo so its all setup with the right pan....I just missed a set of GBody 500 hearders on Evilbay.

[Bad Karma]

I really think the caddy engine is a decent swap, when set up correctly. If you have highway gears and an overdrive a stock one is fine. I just don't like the 4,400 rpm valve float issue. Easily solved with a cam swap and some new springs. Anyone know what RPM the bottom end can handle in stock form?
IIRC, They said the bottom end is very good. The blocks are Hi nickel content ( this is a caddy were talking) which makes them a good strong block. I believe they have forged rods but am not sure. All the parts for the bottom end can be purchased forged if you want anyway. I just wanted to try this and see if it still leaves me wanting another poncho motor. the SBC I have in my lemans doesnt cut it, even though its modified and has all the goodies. It's got power, I have blown 3 rear ends so far but I want more power. 500 CI caddy engines already have high torque production. Some of the late sixty's engines had 525 lb ft of TQ stock and 360 or so hp. Now add some mods and you have a serious engine that has more TQ production than most any poncho stock. Actually, some have more TQ than any production pontiac engine and thats at BELOW 4,400 rpm!, in stock trim. Now add some doodads and you have a serious street/strip motor.

What I would like to do is Find a decent running 500. Grab a stroker crank and max it up to 572 CI. Either get the heads heavily ported ( proobobly cheapest) or buy some aluminum heads. Throw in a semi aggressive roller cam. I may even keep that as my engine if I liked how it performed.

It sucks because I have owned some nice pontiac powered cars in the past with 400's 455's. I got this car cheap with the SBC. Now I am in a dilema. I would love a poncho engine but I also want something with HUGE CUBES without an aftermarket block. With the stroker crank in a stock block even if the crank is 2000 grand I still save 1g on buying a IAII or MR! block. That leaves me with a G to pay for my short block to be assembled with some forged pistons and rods. You can get more cubes out of a 500 caddy than any other block.

It would be nice to say I have a 572 in my car wouldn't it?

[Pontiacmuscle]

Check with mts.com and potter automotive....there are quite a few great Caddy message boards out there and the info is plentiful. I always wanted one in my one ton and a street car. I have a 454 FI in the truck and the GP needs a serious cubic inch infusion so I believethats the way to go.
The nice thing about Caddys is that they do make all the torque below 500 RPM which means they live longer; are more fun to drive and use less gas than a different engine trying to make the same numbers but having to do it at a higher RPM. lots of advantages......check out:
http://forums.500cid.com/
http://cowboyseven.us/forum/index.php

[Bad Karma]

Thanks for the Links!