perf. years ames, out of stock?

[Forrest]

Just had to vent some, why in the world is so much stuff not in stock??? what`s up with these aftermarket suppliers not keeping items in stock, and please don`t ask me "like what stuff" about half of the items are not in stock, I mean, really! if these buisnesses are in the buisness of supplying these parts, why not have them in stock!! what in the world is up with this??? Of course I`ll be hearing "well the supplier/vender is out, well then, why are they out? ect......... if the parts are being reproe`d then get on with it! with a large market for this stuff, I just can`t understand, and it pis## me off

[Ron Landis]

as a matter of fact...this is/was the determining factor in my decision to place an order. We have done three frame-offs in the past three years...five total in the last six years. The company that had most in stock got the order. Some orders were 4$k-$3k on average. Some offered a break on shipping, while others refused and lost substantial orders for that reason alone. It is a competitive industry today. I continue to shop around. I suggest others do the same. It pays. Ron

[Forrest]

Yea Ron , I`m in the same boat as you as far as ordering lots of stuff, done several frame offs in the past few years and have several inline to do, I`m in the buisness of restoring these cars, I find myself spending way too much time searching for parts (e.g. calling, internet, websites ect...) just gets fustrating does`nt it?

[lkt1954]

It's a sign of the times........ it doesn't matter waht industry it is all suppliers are keeping inventory down, so they don't have a lot of money tied up (the want to stay liquid), some of it due to high accounts receivables, some to it being a very competative market and not a big profit margain, cash flow issues, etc. You are right it's damn fustrating and slows everything up. But like i said it's a sign of the times. I deal with farmers, you ought hear a farmer with a $ 250,000 combine or tractor broke down during harvest and have to wait on a $ 200 part, you think we have problems...... It all boils down to the golden rule "He who has the gold makes the rules".

Just my $ 0.02 worth

Larry

[Rugratman]

It's that time of year, my brother.
Everybody wants parts this time of the year.

At least they tell you it's not in stock, I hate ordering from some, a week goes by, and the reciept has 3 missing parts, back ordered.

[mzbk2l]

Market size can determine how often production runs are made, too. In the orignal post, you mention that there is a "large market" out there. How large, though? Just as an example, I remember reading an analysis of a part we were sand casting. 45,000 sand castings a year was kinda pricey, but the company determined that we needed to make at least 60,000 of them per year before it became cost effective to switch to die casting.

I'm sure it seems to us that there are a lot of us who need these parts, but the companies producing the parts are certainly watching how many they can sell, and making sure that they aren't doing small, inefficient production runs when they could wait to do a bigger run.

[Philcol]

I understand the market, the inventory and all the other reasons but why list it in the catalog if you don't have it or have never had it in stock? This is especially true with the online ordering where it is easy to show it out of stock with the click of a mouse. No company has ever contacted me and told me they did not have half of my items and asked if I still wanted the rest of the order. They ship it and let you find out and then want to charge shipping again to get the backorder.

[Jack Peters]

No company ever? Ever? Lets not go overboard with the ever. I understand the frustration of not being able to order the parts you want but in reality it IS supply and demand. If the demand is not great (and Pontiac stuff is not great in the overall scheme of parts) then there will probably never be a great supply.

The Murphy's law states that if anything can go wrong it will go wrong at the most incovenient time. That is just life.

Haven't ordered much but buy a little at time. Used or new. Catalog or swap meet or here. Just the way I do it. I know and watch for the rarer parts I need and have a stash of $$ so when the rare part (like the $1K carb I bought) comes up I can grab it.

Planing is the biggest part of any restoration or project.

[Jeff Hamlin]

I was real disapointed at PITP, I thought I would spend some scratch on parts/supplys I was looking for.
First attempt... No sorry all out on this, that and that as well.
So that night at the Hotel I looked through the new catalog and made a revised list for other projects/parts wanted.
I figure it's worth the s/h savings.
Second attempt... No sorry out on this no thats on back-order.
I was ready to drop a few hundred, but ended up going home with most my money.
I remeber going to swaps and most times walked aways will 90+% of my order.
I'm not ragging on PY as I know you can't carry every thing,
but it sure seemed that the trailer was real low on stock for this event.

[400 4spd.]

I was fortunate in that PY had what I wanted on the trailer (PITP). I bought on Saturday and and again on Sunday, shifter rods and a boxing kit for control arms.

[RR67GTO]

The problem with back orders is that two weeks can become two months. And while waiting for it someone else has the item your still waiting for. I just refuse back orders, and look until I find it. I have also been told an item was in stock, and it was in fact not. When the order was shipped some of the items we listed as back ordered which really burnt me. And that was from our host in which case it took almost six weks for the complete order. I ordered from them simply because they had what I needed and needed it now. Which I said really burns me whne this happens. Mike

[6567GTO]

To those disappointed about show stock... They can't bring their entire stock to these shows. They bring what they think people will want or need. I've made arrangements with both PY and PYPES to bring my orders to the events that they and I happen to attend to save on shipping and it's worked out great for me every time. All it takes is a call prior to the show to see if they might consider bringing certain items and they will - unlees of course they are out of stock... ;)

[JLHarper]

Your are 100% correct FORREST!
And its not "supply and demand". Pipeline should be full with ten days MAX, not months. These mfgs know what they sell and should have it in process. I know they cant stock it all and (credit) PY more than anyone does a much better job than bigger companies with hugh cat budgets.
I will say that Chris manages his inventory much better. I suspect he knows the market and what sells based on his OWN car experience, number tracking, sales. My experience wth PY off trailer and on ordering from store has been way above average. Call em before show to be sure to bring parts and they will have it waiting for you. Every time for me.
Two BIG "all makes" parts cos I have delt with FORGET IT...seems like more than half "OUT OF STOCK" on average. They place the order with MFG when they get a list (min) of folks needing same part I do believe. I can see this BUT TELL US up front.
For a HOBBY that is supposed to be the largest/fastest growing one in the US I cant beleive the probs I have personally had. DARK GREEN 70 GTO seat covers...NOT IN STOCK NOWHERE in the US! Trunk decals SIX MONTHS OUT and still none(?) I could have paid for graphics shop to do me one up by now (YEAR ONE)
They only made 40K GTOs that year and more CHEVELLES plus others using same covers maybe(?) I here em about stocking all the colors but five months and still no covers is just plain CRAZY! Dark GRN was popular color.
Could have made em myself by now learning how to sew in a night school class!
Still waiting after OPGI screwed this up royal (see biz post about them)
Jegtek has right option...order once and way ahead if you can. PLUS...
Order through PONTIAC only suppliers (like PY...right on)

[Ccass]

This is an excellent subject. However it is really two subjects. Getting parts at a show is a whole different issue. Read the last paragraph. It's very helpful to be reminded about consumers expectations and how they are not being met. However, singling out PY and Ames is ironically unfair. Each of us probably stock more Pontiac parts than all the other suppliers combined. Pontiac is all we both do, so we know it is one of the things that separate us from the others. That being said, I'd be happy to share information about why we don't have stock on certain items. From a practical standpoint, you look at a suppliers normal lead times and you order an appropriate quantity based on past sales based on that lead time. However, it's rather complicated. Sometimes, what was popular last year, is not this year. Then there is the oops factor. The 'normal' lead time has just gone from 30 days to 6 months because our suppliers 'garage' water pipes burst, to the plant in Taiwan burnt down. Sounds crazy right? Another 'the dog ate my homework' story but these situations occur on a monthly, weekly and even daily basis. You noticed I said 'garage'. That's right, maybe 20-30% of all our suppliers were or are still hobbiests that happen to have the capability to make a Pontiac part. Sometimes on weekends, sometimes in the garage. Try gauging lead times there. :) I can tell you that PY, many times, has to stock a year's worth of quantity to prevent out of stock situations. Those that are familiar with inventory control proceedures know that this is traditionally not a wise business practice yet we realise we have to do it just to avoid situations like mentioned above. Despite our efforts, these unforseen problems create unexpected lead times and hence the dreaded backorders. The spring just compounds the problems as probably 50% of the yearly business is done between March and June.(4 months). I could go on but I think I hit the main issues.

I would do what others mention above, check stock with your suppliers and check expected lead times quoted. Be specific about your required timeframes. The more communication the better.


Those of you who count on suppliers to buy parts at shows have been, how can I say it any other way than, SPOILED! For years, PY and Ames have traveled from show to show and literally tried to recreate our warehouses in these trailers. Only problem is that there is now about 50% more parts available than 10 years ago. And most of the new items are sheet metal items that are LARGE. It is no longer possible to bring even close to everything to a show. I hope you notice that none of the other suppliers bring ANY parts to shows anymore. From a business standpoint, it's just not practical. Price a diesel duallie, 40' trailer, shelving, fuel lodging and all the work involved stocking a rolling warehouse to generate sales for maybe 10 shows per season. Regardless, we still do it as a service to our Pontiac customers and a way to get new customers. Again a way to separate us from the others. The larger the event, the more we bring. It's that simple. However, if the majority of you feel discouraged when we don't have the items you are looking for at a show, then we should certainly consider abandoning bringing parts to the shows if it is going to generate bad will. I'm pretty sure most of you appreciate any items we can bring to these shows??? We also have always maintained a policy of bringing orders to any events we attend. Just call us ahead of time, and we'll bring what we have.

[Bob Hall]

Chris,

You probably don't hear this enough, but Thanks for everything.

[getmygoat]

I order almost everything from Ames (sorry PY), as I prefer their ordering system and catalog (easier to find stuff).

Anyway, when you order from Ames on-line, anything not in stock comes up shaded in "yellow", so its pretty clear what's not available...you can decide before you provide your credit card whether you are prepared to wait. If not, just delete those items from your cart and keep rolling.

Overall, I'd say 95% of the stuff I order is in stock. (I"m doing a body-on resto and have ordered over 5k in parts in the past 4 months). or if not it comes quickly... I ordered some wheel cylinders recently, they showed back-ordered, but arrived only about a week later than the "main" order.

[Forrest]

My Point was not nessesarily the shows. it`s what shows in stock or what`s not in stock, I deal in mostly 70-72 gto`s and what I see from most venders is alot of items not in stock ( going down the list in the online cat. and see ALOT of "not in stock" or just calling and asking), it`s just dissapointing and fustrating when you need certain items and may have to wait god knows how long to get a part you need to get on with a job, if the items are available please have them, or give a date (honestly!) when it will be available. When your in the resto biz and you need parts on a regular basis, it gets fustrating

[Forrest]

another point I may add is that you must beware of the part you are ordering because, there are some parts that are inferior compared to the same part from another manufacturer which will be correct and much better quality, lessons learned in the biz!

[goatless]

Forrest, Just curious- Did you read anything Chris (Ccass, the owner of PY) wrote? You seem to have no understanding of where many of these repro parts come from. The Pontiac repro parts buisiness is no where near as big as you imagine it. The parts aren't made by some huge corporation in runs of 10,000 parts, they are made by lots of small buisinesses that make relatively small runs on somewhat irregular schedules. So sometimes even though Ames and PY make great efforts to keep parts in stock they just aren't available- ANYWHERE.:noidea:

[Forrest]

I`m aware of what the issues the parts houses have to deal with, as I have dealt with both venders and manufacturers, I chose the pontiac as my specialty many years ago, although I have done a few chebbys and fords, don`t get me wrong I`m very pleased with what I can get for theses pontiacs from p.y. and ames ect..., it`s just the fact that unfortunatly the pontiac parts availability is not as flourishing as the other guys (chevy ford ect..) and yes I understand the reasons why, I really do thank our guys for what they do, I just wish it could be more....... like 70-72 convertible quarter panels,please??? http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif
Talking

[Ccass]

My Point was not nessesarily the shows. it`s what shows in stock or what`s not in stock, I deal in mostly 70-72 gto`s and what I see from most venders is alot of items not in stock ( going down the list in the online cat. and see ALOT of "not in stock" or just calling and asking), it`s just dissapointing and fustrating when you need certain items and may have to wait god knows how long to get a part you need to get on with a job, if the items are available please have them, or give a date (honestly!) when it will be available. When your in the resto biz and you need parts on a regular basis, it gets fustrating

I understand your frustration. I'm just posting some of the 'behind the scenes' happenings just so you can be informed. That in itself should help you with your parts requirement planning. The part of my post about the shows was more directed toward answering Jeff's post in this topic. The quoting of 'out of stock' lead times is the hardest part of the business. As you read from my other post, a mfg's lead time varys greatly sometimes. As a general rule, we OVERestimate the timeframe. Trust me, we have learned our lessons over the years that a quoted 2 week backorder that turns into 3 months, is a guaranteed lost customer. Still, we occasionally get a bad lead time from a mfg and consequently this scenario still exists....and we lose customers because of it.

I also didn't mention that at this time of the year, parts are coming in and going out on a daily basis much moreso than the rest of the year. So when you check online stock one day, the next day may look completely different.

Let me tell you a story that just happened to us last month with the supplier of the infamous aluminum tripower intakes that have been on backorder for 2 years. The president of the company informed us that 25 intakes were finally ready to ship. Well, we've been told that for two years so we made him take a picture of the pallet with all the intakes on it 'ready to ship'. Once we had seen the pallet of boxed intakes we air expressed 'prepayment' for this order. (Yes, that is the way some mfg's operate in this business). Upon receiving that news, we called and e-mailed approximately 25 customers with the good news. Well 1 week later we received a pallet 1/3 the size of what was in the picture. 8 intakes instead of 25. No phone call, no note. When we called asking how this could happen, we were offered a ridiculous excuse and a 'don't worry, we'll get them right out to you.' Well 3 weeks has passed and all we have been able to do is leave voicemail messages when we call.

I'm not asking for sympathy, just trying to show you how 'sh%$ happens'.

[Rugratman]

That sucks, Chris.
Pure deception, I would demand a partial refund or stop payment on that sucker.
I'm sure it was certified funds though.......

[69*Goat]

Well....

I must say that I was surprised, when I called to order the interior, and a few exterior pieces for my 69 GTO, I was able to get 99% of the parts right away. I was very discouraged though when I was told that there were NO grille pieces in stock, or tail light bezels.

That Figures.......

[kate`s67gto]

I go to Carlisel every year and order parts before i go usually a month a head . I have not had a problem with out of stock parts from PY when picking up my order. This year however i`m not going and i do need some new parts. My only complaint is UPS man what a rip off they are, bend over grab your ankles :mad: . I would like to get my orders through USPS better for me. :)

[SCOTT ESTERLE]

Chris, I feel your pain. We run into the same issues that you do & probably more. We try to give cust honest information on when we may receive a product but were at the mercy of the manufacture & we have no control over when & if they will make a part. If we run into this problem often with a manufacture we will basically drop them from our product line. Un-fortunately its the nature of the business. Look at Microsoft with there X-boxes where they only came out with a limited # of them & people had to wait in lines in the cold to have a chance to get one.

[rlfonad]

another point I may add is that you must beware of the part you are ordering because, there are some parts that are inferior compared to the same part from another manufacturer which will be correct and much better quality, lessons learned in the biz!

I like AMES Performance's catalog. They indicate the quality (good or bad) of many of their parts and insert footnotes that are often helpful when searching for "stuff".:clap2:

[silvergoat67]

I was a buyer for a small division of CAT for about 8 years, doing both product developement and and purchsing of new Items. I can really appreciate what the folks at PY and Ames go through. While I had the Cat name behind me to back me up when it came to negociate price and Quanity discounts it was still a strugle to keep the prices so that customers could afford to buy while still making a reasonable markup. And I had really deep pockets behind me and could order and forcast for several years supply 1000's of pieces at a time and it was still tough some times to buy US made products ( which I did when ever I could). Today it would be impossible.

Chris C. and Steve Ames , Kevin Beal and Everyone else at these companies really do not receive enough credit for all of the parts research and tech
inspection that they do to get us the correct part. That is as good or in some cases better than original. My hat is off to them

silvergoat67