PYPES/PY costumer service

[1coolfish]

I have thought long and hard about posting this thread but after numerous calls to both PYPES and PY I have no choice. I recently purchased a full PYPES exhaust system from PY, I also went ahead and got the 72 splitter tips for my car. They stated that they would be POLISHED STAINLESS STEEL as well as SHOW QUALITY, well when I received my first pair they were horrible. They looked like they were just finished and were packed up and sent to me. I called PY and spoke with a women who insisted that the tips I was holding in my hands were fully polished and were show quality. After we went back and forth she put me on hold for ten minutes and when she returned she advised me that she went to look at another pair of tips and that she now knew what I was talking about. She too could see that the welds were not ground down or polished, I asked her what could be done and she told me nothing. I was advised that once they sell all of those crappy tips they would have the manufacture fix the problem but until then I could keep them or send them back, so I sent them back. Well I went ahead and ordered another set this time from PYPES who ensured me that they would be of the highest quality. I received another pair of crappy tips. The welds again are not ground away or polished and neither is the rest of the tip. When I called PYPES to ask them what happened the gentlemen told me to get a grinder and grind away at the welds and he told me to take some rouge and polish the entire tip. He stated that it should only take about an hour tops, he stated that there was a mis communication between the manufacture and PYPYES as to how the final tip would be so there was nothing he could do. I think that this is totally unacceptable. Here are some photo's of the tips, let me know what you think!!:mad:

87162

87163

87164

87165

[1coolfish]

I guess no one has anything to say about this.

[DMark]

I installed a complete 2.5 inch Pypes for my Trans Am and also used their stainless tips. I was also very unhappy with mine but was told not to worry about it since, "... the welds won't show on a TA...."

Reckon that is good since those welds also RUST!

[Larry Navarro]

Looking at the two bottom pics......To tell you the truth, the welding is not that bad. Nice uniform beads. For mass-produced units they look darn good.
If the tips were made of standard metal and chromed there would be no issues concerning looks. I have yet to hear anyone object to factory tips and the obvious sloppy welds. Why?.....because the chrome "masks" the imperfections.
Welding stainless requires the use of stainless welding sticks or wire, so worrying about rust is of no concern.
Without grinding and polishing the welds, it's something you'll have to settle for.
I myself don't mind the looks "as-is". When positioned properly, the welds are virtually hidden from view behind the quarter panel.

PYPES claims they are "show quality, polished stainless" ......this could be left to interpretation between the two parties, as some vendors have a different definition of "show quality", than their customers.
If it were me, I would return them for a refund and obtain a set of CHROMED tips from another vendor.

[hakansan]

Have You talked with Chris about this before posting here? To demand talking to the boss often helps out in these kind of matters. Just for curiosity, how much did You pay?
Håkan

[fastgto]

PYPES claims they are "show quality, polished stainless" ......this could be left to interpretation between the two parties, as some vendors have a different definition of "show quality", than their customers.
If it were me, I would return them for a refund and obtain a set of CHROMED tips from another vendor.[/QUOTE]


Well put Larry.

[Region Warrior]

Hard to tell from pic's, but for stainless, they look pretty good.
I would go chrome myself. Dont care for stainless anything.

[1coolfish]

Please don't get me wrong the welds are great quality but that is not the point. I was told by PY and PYPES that these tips were fully polished show quality tips. The welds are not polished nor are they ground down smooth. I think my biggest problem is that I was told to do it myself, are kidding me this is something that should have been done before they were sent out. As far as sending them back I did these new tips were from The Parts Place, I was told that they would not be PYPES tips but when I received them they came from PYPES. When I called them they stated that the PYPES tips are the only ones available. So I guess PYPES and PY knows that they are the only game in town so they must figure that they could produce what ever garbage they want because there is no other options out there. There are no chrome pieces or original tips. So what am I to do, I have contacted Stainless works to see if they have anything available.

[Ccass]

I have thought long and hard about posting this thread but after numerous calls to both PYPES and PY I have no choice. I recently purchased a full PYPES exhaust system from PY, I also went ahead and got the 72 splitter tips for my car. They stated that they would be POLISHED STAINLESS STEEL as well as SHOW QUALITY, well when I received my first pair they were horrible. They looked like they were just finished and were packed up and sent to me. I called PY and spoke with a women who insisted that the tips I was holding in my hands were fully polished and were show quality. After we went back and forth she put me on hold for ten minutes and when she returned she advised me that she went to look at another pair of tips and that she now knew what I was talking about. She too could see that the welds were not ground down or polished, I asked her what could be done and she told me nothing. I was advised that once they sell all of those crappy tips they would have the manufacture fix the problem but until then I could keep them or send them back, so I sent them back. Well I went ahead and ordered another set this time from PYPES who ensured me that they would be of the highest quality. I received another pair of crappy tips. The welds again are not ground away or polished and neither is the rest of the tip. When I called PYPES to ask them what happened the gentlemen told me to get a grinder and grind away at the welds and he told me to take some rouge and polish the entire tip. He stated that it should only take about an hour tops, he stated that there was a mis communication between the manufacture and PYPYES as to how the final tip would be so there was nothing he could do. I think that this is totally unacceptable. Here are some photo's of the tips, let me know what you think!!:mad:


Cool, I think this post is very uncool. :( I was the one you talked to in the referenced conversation.

First off, your 'numerous calls to Pypes and PY' infers that we haven't been anwering your questions. You have, in fact become quite famous here at PY over the last couple of weeks. We try our best to satisfy the customer's needs but it appears like we can not in this case. We have answered the same question each time. I'll answer again here. The tubes are polished T304 stainless then tig welded with 304 weld. This is the highest grade of stainless excluding medical grade. If an accomplished welder was to view these welds up close, they would agree the quality is 2nd to none. The welds would not be seen except if somebody got on their back to look. Therefore, we didn't feel it was a major issue. The Pypes system is a performance system and the stainless tips were made to 'simulate' the oem look. They are not a reproduction. So are they 'show quality'? To you, they are not. That is your right as the consumer. So if you don't like the tips, the way I see it, you have two choices. 1. Simply return them for a refund as with anything PY sells. 2. take an hour or so and grind the welds smooth and polish for a 'show quality' finish. I explained all this to you and I genuinely thought you were sympathetic to the situation. Keep in mind, what are your alternatives? Only Pypes has taken the time to make a performance version of this stainless splitter tip for your Pontiac for about $90/pr. Your other choice is a $259/pr set of originals that are only oem diameter and chrome plated steel. ie; They are guaranteed to rust over the next several years regardless of care. This first production run we didn't get polished welds. We may never get polished welds although we are now considering it for the next production. How much extra $$ would you be willing to spend for this feature? Time is money and many feel that $90/pr is already a lot of money for tips.

I know how frustrating mail order can be when you have to send things back and forth but I don't understand why you would go to Pypes for the same exact tips you just received from PY. The 1st set of tips came in a Pypes box, no? And even if you did, why would you not specifically ask Pypes if the tips were going to be polished on the welds? If you did ask, and someone gave you that impression, then as a representative of PY I appologize that you were misled. However, they are a fairly new product, it was unintentional and you have legitimate options. It's not like we are sticking you with something you don't want.

Chris

For the record, we didn't call our tips 'crappy'. That was Cool's description. :) We still think they are a very good value for their intended purpose.

[indianajoe1960]

Sorry to hear of your problem. I purchased a Pypes ss system in Feb. for a 79 TA with the dual mufflers and polished tips like in your picture. Also purchased Jet Hot coated (in & out) Hooker headers. Was impressed with the quality on both items. Just never got around to post until reading your post. The only problem we encountered with the exhaust was the left tailpipe from the muffler to the tip was not bent the same as the right side. Engine builder modified it easily and the other neat trick he did was to eliminate the collector bolt hookup and replace the other u-bolt style clamps with stainless band clamps. Not trying to contradict the problem you have had but am curious if the tips were in the same production run, different welder ...

[73ta]

I think the welds look great. Almost as good as food grade or purged pharmacutical. They won't even be seen when installed. If you want them prettier grind them smooth and have them chromed. If not get your money back. Should not be a concern unless it's going on a show car.

[1coolfish]

May be you are not understanding what I am saying The Welds are great quality but they are not polished or smoothed. I maybe you can or can not see them on the car but when you say that a part is FULLY POLISHED it should be fully polished. When I returned the tips the first time I did get my money back, I then ordered what I thought and was told would be NON PYPES tips from The Parts Place to my surprise I was sent another pair of PYPES tips so I did not order them from PYPES. Anyone who knows me knows that I will pay for quality parts, If you tell me that you are sending me a fully polished tip and that the welds are polished and ground smooth but it will cost me $200.00 thats O.K. send me what I ordered. These are not fully polished tips, they are very good quality welded stainless pieces that need to be finished and that should not be my responsibility to polish them. May be I should not have used the word crappy but it is quite frustrating when you are told basically suck it up.

P.S. Chris do you know when I will be receiving the tail pipe hangers?

[mike nixon]

after looking at you photos i really don't se what you're bitching about unless it's the discoloration of the stainless, that's normal with this material when it's welded. as 73ta posted, have them chromed if you're that concerned about the discoloration.

i'm not trying to be a smartass here, but that's my opinion.

mike

[1coolfish]

Can you people read or may be I just am not explaining myself correctly, the tips are not polished. As I said before when an item is said to be a finished product then that is what it should be, I should not have to spend an hour Grinding and Polishing it for it to be finished because then to me it is not considered finished, that is why i'm "BITCHING". Why should I have to be happy with a product that the company who is selling this product is also not happy with its finished product.
Chris you told me that on the next order you place with the manufacture the problem with the unpolished welds would be corrected, but I'm the bad guy here for not sucking it up, if it was so easy to polish the welds as Chris told me over the phone then why didn't either PY or PYPES send me a pair that were polished!! May be you guys should send back those tips that you too were not happy with and have them corrected.

[GTO Noob]

Cool,

You were told that the next batch MAY be better. If you are that unhappy with them send them back, wait for the new batch and pay an extra $100 for them. Personally I would rather do it myself and put the extra $100 in my pocket or into the car in another spot. You've been given an answer the choice is now your's to decide if you alter them to meet your expectations or send them back get your money and wait and see if the next batch meets your standards.

The product may not meet your definition of fully polished. That is unfortunate. You've been given your options, decide what you're going to do and move on.

I have spent tons of money so far ay PY and have had nothing but positive dealings with the PY team.

[1coolfish]

You people really do not listen very well, I have returned the tips twice the first time I purchased them knew I was getting them, the second time I did not know I was getting PYPES tips because as I said before they were purchased from The Parts Place and I told them not to send me PYPES tips because I knew what they would look like. I am getting a set made but I should be able to let people know that the product that is being sent is not what is being represented. I have purchased numerous products from PY and have been happy with what I been sent until now, I am more unhappy again with what was told to me by the PY and the PYPES people, I know that I'm not the only one who is unhappy with these tips I am the only one who has said something about it. I'm sorry that you can not take constructive criticism but maybe you should pay a little more attention to what your customers want and attempt to fix the problem in stead of blowing them off.

[Ccass]

You people really do not listen very well, I have returned the tips twice the first time I purchased them knew I was getting them, the second time I did not know I was getting PYPES tips because as I said before they were purchased from The Parts Place and I told them not to send me PYPES tips because I knew what they would look like. I am getting a set made but I should be able to let people know that the product that is being sent is not what is being represented. I have purchased numerous products from PY and have been happy with what I been sent until now, I am more unhappy again with what was told to me by the PY and the PYPES people, I know that I'm not the only one who is unhappy with these tips I am the only one who has said something about it. I'm sorry that you can not take constructive criticism but maybe you should pay a little more attention to what your customers want and attempt to fix the problem in stead of blowing them off.

Dave, I'm listening and understanding. You are upset that the tips were misrepresented. In my reply I explained why they were misrepresented AND appologized. Beyond appologizing, I offered the viable solutions. What more can we possibly do?

[GTO Noob]

Cool,

We can all read very well. The problem here is that you are not realizing what we are saying.

You come on here and crab about PY and Pypes. The owner of the company took the time to personally speak with you both on the phone and on this thread. He told you that unfortunately this is what's available right now. He gave you a solution to either return the tips or told you what you could do to them to try to bring them up to your standards. You chose to return them. They returned your money no harm no foul.

As I said earlier it's unfortunate that your standard of fully polished is higher than what the manufactures is. PY has told you that they were in talks with the manufacturer and the next batch MAY be better.

It is not PY's fault that the manufacturer made them this way and it certainly is not PY's fault that you purchased another set from a different company and they mislead you about who manufactured them.

PY did everything they could to make it right with you and they have. I personally don't think calling them out in this thread is the right way to go. You have a bigger beef with the other company that told you the tips weren't Pypes when they actually were. If you were unhappy with the quality of the tips then perhaps you should have started a thread in the Customer Satisfaction forum stating basically that the quality of the welds on the tips did not meet YOUR standards and that's it. PY's customer service was more than fair and responsive to you. They offered you two solutions when they could have said oh well just return them.

JMO

[ry57pont]

my 70 gto splitters look like that also, but at 61.00 a pair i knew what to expect, and they were the only ones offering them in 2.5"

[Larry Navarro]

Since we are on the subject of tips.......
Chris, do you offer tips for the '73 'bird in stainless?

[1coolfish]

You know what guys I see this is not going anywhere, I returned the tips and I will try and get another pair made some where else. By the Way GTO Noob PY customer service did tell me "Oh well there is nothing we can do so return them if you do not like them".
Chris I still do not know why you would sell a product that does not meet your own standards, why not just send them back to get finished the way you expected them to be. I know that would take time but it would be better then having unhappy customers.

[GTO Noob]

You know what guys I see this is not going anywhere, I returned the tips and I will try and get another pair made some where else. By the Way GTO Noob PY customer service did tell me "Oh well there is nothing we can do so return them if you do not like them".
Chris I still do not know why you would sell a product that does not meet your own standards, why not just send them back to get finished the way you expected them to be. I know that would take time but it would be better then having unhappy customers.


Cool,
I realize that they told you to return them. They also suggested that you could grind down the welds and polish them to bring them up to your standards. So they did give you a couple of options. I'm not trying to pick a fight here. It really is too bad that the product did not meet your standards. The only thing I am defending is PY's customer service. While you may not have gotten the answer you were looking for they did everything that was reasonable to satisfy you.

If you bought a vehicle and brought it home and while you were looking under the hood you realized that you didn't like the way the manufacturer finished a particular item you certainly wouldn't expect the dealership to return your car to the manufacturer and have them do it your way when in fact it is not a defect but a standard way of finishing that item on all of the vehicles.

You can't expect PY to send the tips back to the manufacturer and have them finish them to your standards. PY would lose money on the tips as the extra cost would probably make them too expensive for them to resell.

That being said Chris and a few other members stated that they thought the welds looked OK considering they really wouldn't be visible.

I know it's not what you want to hear and again I'm not trying to pick a fight with you but don't bash PY for their service or the manufacturers product when it's out of their hands. As far as I can see PY stood behind their product and dealt with you in an up front manner.

It's too bad that the product did not match the picture you had in your head I know how disappointing that can be. But chew on the manufacturer and not the messenger.

[Mo]

You know what guys I see this is not going anywhere, I returned the tips and I will try and get another pair made some where else. By the Way GTO Noob PY customer service did tell me "Oh well there is nothing we can do so return them if you do not like them".
Chris I still do not know why you would sell a product that does not meet your own standards, why not just send them back to get finished the way you expected them to be. I know that would take time but it would be better then having unhappy customers.

Sorry but I disagree. That is a very nice part for $90. I think you were kidding yourself thinking you were getting "Pebble Beach" show quality for $90. You live on "The Island" call these guys for a high quality stainless exhaust tip. Hope they can help.

http://www.kookscustomheaders.com/

[Pearlbluebird]

For $90.00 that work isn't bad at all. I used to tig weld all stainless railings and aluminum work on 70 foot multy million dollar yachts. All the stainless joints were fitted together so tight you didn't use any filler rod. Sanding and polishing came last. Smaller easier pieces for these yachts were alot more money. Sanding and buffing will bring those pieces right out to there best.
For any discolouration that won't sand out you may need to pickle paste it for 15 min. Then re-sand and buff. Finish with a 600 grit sand paper and use a jewelers buffing compound.
Those pieces will outlast all of us.

[gto65lvr]

Holy smokes with all that work you just listed if I needed them I would go ahead and pay 250 easy for them versus 90 if I had a mirror under my car.

But I don't so I won't 90 bucks is better than the "crappy" auto part store chrome ones that look sorta like those. 250 for repops hmmmm I have the same problem with my 65 GTO won't buy repops for that money I think they are closer to 300 for the 65 and only stock diameter. So I would buy these or something like the crappy auto parts store ones just because all you can really see is the tip part and if it is close then good enough when using a larger than stock exhaust. Larger than stock equals no concourse.

ok that's my .02 if it were my deal

I am outa here..............

[acgwinn]

I think what he is trying to say is, no matter if the tips are $90 or $300, if the company says they are SHOW QUALITY, then they should be just that. I'm not saying one party is right and the other is wrong, but if you list something as being show quality, then it should be. Just my .02, Damian.

[Ccass]

Guys, just for the record, the reason the pictured tips look different and are promoted as 'show quality' is that the previous chrome tips that the stainless parts replaced utilized the same part number, description and picture. When the new tips came in we failed to change the picture.(btw we still also make the chrome tips) For that we again appologize. We are going to update the picture immediately. Also, the new tips are made overseas. Adding the polishing with USA labor, would raise the price about $30. Waiting and getting it done in the next run, might only raise the price $10-$15. We can't absorb either of these options without changing the price. So I really think this whole thing was a big lack of understanding on both sides. Like Dave said, I'm sure many other people reading this are saying...why doesn't PY just improve the tips. The sad fact is that 95% of all reproduction parts available COULD be improved. However the cost to get that last 5 or 10% better quality usually prices the part out of the market. I wrote an extensive article about this in the PY Journal. The more the consumer understands the 'behind the scenes' happenings with parts suppliers, the more sympathetic you all would be to what it takes to bring parts to market. I'm not saying we're all losing money everyday, but we're also not choking on cavier and champaign either. :)

[73ta]

The just of it is Cool wanted to know "what do we think?" Now that he knows what we think, he's still mad because it doesn't match what he thinks. Similar to what show quality means to different people. I don't have an original, show quality car, but it's pretty dam good and I put it in shows. I would'nt hesistate to use a stainless tip of that quality on my car but it's a restomod not a 100 point show queen! Either return it and see if you can find something better, or use some of that typing energy and break out the grinder and have them chromed! I would imangine that keeping the P-years catalogue up to date and correct is an impossible task and they will always have errors. Ccass has steped up to the plate to address and correct it. There you have my full opinion.

Now Ccass, back to what Larry asked: do you have stainless tips for our 73 Ta's? Stock size or oversize?

[dm_fan]

I retook pictures of the EVT16 tips today. Here is how they currently look:

[Ccass]

BTW, the new production run of EVT10 TA splitters does have polished welds. :)

http://pysales.com/images/evt10.jpg

[GTOWAGON]

Aren't these welds completly hidden from view when they are installed on the car??

[Pearlbluebird]

BTW, the new production run of EVT10 TA splitters does have polished welds. :)

http://pysales.com/images/evt10.jpg
Those are really nice looking pieces. If the weld is'nt seen there are great. If someone wanted to sand and polish that piece on their own dime it would look to be one piece.
I know how hard it is to tig in between the pipes. The tungsten has alot of skickout in that area. Not fun.

[moedude]

Hi guys, I know im resurrecting a dead post but i figured i would add to this one since it deals directly with the questioning of Pypes quality. Ive been looking around for the last several months at different mufflers, headers, and complete exhaust kits for my 69 lemans. I wanted to basically get the most bang for my buck while keeping the noise somewhat street legal. Long-story short, Ive decided to go with Hooker Super Comps and Flowmaster 44s since ive heard this setup on several street machines and it basically gives me goosebumps each time. Sounds bad ass. That and Hooker and Flowmaster have been doin this for who knows how long. Figured how could i go wrong. I got everything in order and will be taking the car to the shop for a custom system weld after i bolt on the Hookers.... CANT WAIT!

Anyways, back to pypes. I seriously considered going with their systems given the price but some searching around the internet and talking to some local folk at car shows steered me away. Heres a few links of what i found:

http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&entryID=51698597&groupID=100030069&adTopicID=2

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=3147.0

Coupled with what i heard on this site, i didnt wanna become one of these remorseful buyers. So just thought i'd share some people's experiences with you all to assist your exhaust system decisions. Always read up and do your homework before diving into a considerable purchase. Cheers

[Ccass]

Hi guys, I know im resurrecting a dead post but i figured i would add to this one since it deals directly with the questioning of Pypes quality. Ive been looking around for the last several months at different mufflers, headers, and complete exhaust kits for my 69 lemans. I wanted to basically get the most bang for my buck while keeping the noise somewhat street legal. Long-story short, Ive decided to go with Hooker Super Comps and Flowmaster 44s since ive heard this setup on several street machines and it basically gives me goosebumps each time. Sounds bad ass. That and Hooker and Flowmaster have been doin this for who knows how long. Figured how could i go wrong. I got everything in order and will be taking the car to the shop for a custom system weld after i bolt on the Hookers.... CANT WAIT!

Anyways, back to pypes. I seriously considered going with their systems given the price but some searching around the internet and talking to some local folk at car shows steered me away. Heres a few links of what i found:

http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&entryID=51698597&groupID=100030069&adTopicID=2

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=3147.0

Coupled with what i heard on this site, i didnt wanna become one of these remorseful buyers. So just thought i'd share some people's experiences with you all to assist your exhaust system decisions. Always read up and do your homework before diving into a considerable purchase. Cheers

moedude, I think your Hooker Comp and FM 44 decision is a good one. But I have to question your logic on the rest of your post. Bringing up a 3 year old post where a member complained about a cosmetic issue on a set of tips. Then I looked at the threads you found and now I am completely baffled. You had to go into the far reaches of the internet to find a post about a leaking 2005 Mustang system from a myspace member with a clear agenda that didn't even own the system! It was his buddies? ok. Then your other find was from a Camaro site from more than a year ago. But apparently you didnt' read the whole thread because at the end of the thread, the member appologized to Pypes for ordering the wrong components for his car and complimented Pypes on figuring out the problem. There are literally dozens of positive comments right on these 'pontiac' forums. There are also hundreds of positive Pypes posts on every other automotive forum out there. Even if you found more topics and even if they were right here on the PY forums, if you read carefully, you'll notice that the nature of the problems are usually pretty catastrophic. Now why would one person be happy with an exhaust system and another be completely disapointed with the same system? In 95% of the cases, it's because the system isn't installed properly. With exhaust, if you start your system even 2" off, the entire system will NOT fit and appear like it was bent wrong.

Lastly, your choice to custom weld a system at a local shop is not the way to go from a performance or cost standpoint. You are spending good money on high flowing headers. You have chosen good sounding but mediocre flowing mufflers. Having a local shop custom bend the rest of the system will be like putting a cork on the mufflers. Regardless of whether I can restore your faith in a quality Pypes system, do yourself a favor and get some brand of mandrel bent A-body exhaust.