Anybody ever install a LS1 in a first Gen F-body

[lugnutt]

Ive been kickin around the idea to sale my IA2 project and install a supercharged LS1 in my first Gen firebird.
Just wondered if anyone has one of these and what did it take. Headers are my major concern, then how to mount the TH400 convertor to the LS1.
Thoughts?

[David Holmberg]

They have headers for the first gen Camaros that I assume will work for you.
The T400 is no problem at all, you'll just need the correct torque converter.

Other than the "Not having a real Pontiac motor" comments, I, honestly think you'll love it.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/index.php?

[ponjohn]

www.pro-touring.com

[Wareagle]

Ive been kickin around the idea to sale my IA2 project and install a supercharged LS1 in my first Gen firebird.
Just wondered if anyone has one of these and what did it take. Headers are my major concern, then how to mount the TH400 convertor to the LS1.
Thoughts?
Whats wrong with supercharging the IAII.

[drew1967]

they make a conversion kit for this. you might want to check the camaro forums for this. its around $1000 but it is worth it as well. everything to put it in!!

[lugnutt]

Whats wrong with supercharging the IAII.
Fuel injection $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
D1SC Procharger set up for Pontaic $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Wire harness for direct bolt in $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Etc. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Just a few

[fast72lemans]

I have a 6.0 out of a hummer that is just wanting to be under my hood. What supercharger were you thinking of using?

[lugnutt]

The D1sc procharger I just bought for my 99 is supposed to be good up to 1400 horsepower with the 8 rib set up I got with it. Twin intercoolers. Just started thinking, why not just stick it in the 68'?

[fast72lemans]

You can't go wrong with those ls motors, cam and headwork and they run 10's all day long. I say do it!!!!!!!:D

[lugnutt]

How much for the 6.0?

[Steve C.]

HE would care, and that's all that really matters. Enough said !

[David Holmberg]

It could be worse...

My kids were watching the 3rd making of "The Fast and the Furious" Tokyo drift. Towards the end of the movie the main guy, an American, takes a 68 Shelby Mustang and installs a turbo Nissan Skyline motor in it...

Talk about making a die hard purist sick... ;)

At least the LSx motor is still a GM motor, with parts designed by Pontiac engineers.

[FLYNLOW]

Yep, just another "Chevy" in a Pontiac. How dare you even think of it. It's only better in every way. Don't do it!

LoL...

[lugnutt]

"Another local had a 555 Chevy built for his `74 Camaro last year.He paid $15k to run 9.90s N/A.He needed to freshen it this year,that was another $7500.Now THAT seems like alot of money to me."
I guess you havent tried to put a Ia2 together with race parts. Besides if he needed 7500.00 worth of work something was broke!! Thats just racing.
Has nothing to do with what I was talking about.
Its funny how people over react to putting other power plants into a GM car. Do you think Pontiac made the whole car? Come on!! My car has a Strange Fab 9 rear (not pontiac) a Turbo 400 (not pontiac) a 4500 stall convertor (not pontiac) I guess I dont have a pontiac any more, so I might as well put a LS1 in it. At least it has more GM parts than my IA2 will have!

[Dragncar]

Like BDHABT the first thing I do when I see a old Pontiac that I have not seen before is look under it.The owners that still have a Pontiac in it know what I am looking and we always have a nice conversation.Its a comradeship sort of thing.
And luggnut people do not react or overreact to putting other powerplants in GM cars.They react when people put chevys in Pontiacs.Because you have a 4500 stall it is no longer a Pontiac....what.You are not making sense.It is about the engine.You do not get it and are going to do what you want.
Pontiac had to go against chevy to get the whole GTO muscle car thing started in the first place.And they had to do what they did in that era with one giant foot on their back(chevy).It has always been about being different and not giving up.
Why call yourself a Pontiac fan if you are just going to throw a chevy in it,whats the point.And who likes a sellout.

[BDHABT]

"Another local had a 555 Chevy built for his `74 Camaro last year.He paid $15k to run 9.90s N/A.He needed to freshen it this year,that was another $7500.Now THAT seems like alot of money to me."
I guess you havent tried to put a Ia2 together with race parts. Besides if he needed 7500.00 worth of work something was broke!! Thats just racing.
Has nothing to do with what I was talking about.
Its funny how people over react to putting other power plants into a GM car. Do you think Pontiac made the whole car? Come on!! My car has a Strange Fab 9 rear (not pontiac) a Turbo 400 (not pontiac) a 4500 stall convertor (not pontiac) I guess I dont have a pontiac any more, so I might as well put a LS1 in it. At least it has more GM parts than my IA2 will have!


lug,I have not priced an IA2 race motor.Nor do I want to step on any toes.
Just seems like alot of cabbage.What I was relating to,is that the BBC,in my eyes,is equally expensive.
There is a local racer at my home track,LVD,running a `68 Bird,with a 455,solid cam,ported #48s,etc.Hes running 9.90s also.I pray to God he didnt spend $20k for that.
Do whatever you feel is best for your wallet;you`ll definetly impress the late model guys with your swap.

Mark.

[nap5]

This brings up an interesting point. What makes the LS motors Chevy motors? Do they share common architecture with the first generation Chevy small block? Just curious...

[1bad70taclone]

i was wondering the same thing. there are also alot of lsx mustangs, yes i said mustangs, out there now. there are also alot of rx7 lsx cars and a couple wrx soobaroo also. i just sold a 6.0 99 trans am that was built from junkyard and ebay. so someone is getting the news if these guys and i mean not just one is putting into a ford. i am just stuck between an edelbrock headed 400, 455 or 6.0 lsx. i like the idea of the lsx because of the very large aftermarket offering.

[amcmike]

This brings up an interesting point. What makes the LS motors Chevy motors? Do they share common architecture with the first generation Chevy small block? Just curious...

The architecture is completely different from the original Chevy engine. It was designed from scratch by GM (not Chevy) Powertrain Engineers. I think only the bore center spacing is the same and the lifters actually fit both. It is a true "Corporate" engine because when it was conceived all Powertrain Divisions from the different brands were already consolidated. Of course that doesn't stop GM from playing both sides of the fence when they think it's beneficial for marketing (their latest anniversary book for the Chevy Smallblock included the LS motors). It's no more of a Chevy engine than it is a Pontiac engine.

[Wareagle]

The LS is still a chevy as the IA II is still a Pontiac.

[gearbanger]

Lugnutt,

I am not telling you what to do with your project, but just be realistic. You are talking about 9 second chevy big blocks and Tiger headed IAII Pontiacs being expensive and supercharged LS1's being cheap? You can't just bolt a supercharger to a stock LS1 and have the equivalent of a 500 inch Pontiac or Chevy and not for the same money either. If you want to run any boost at all you are going to have to tear the motor down and rebuild it with lower compression pistons and better rods and so forth. The proce spread is not going to be what you think. The computer and harnesses for your car are not cheap either. I am not saying you can build a Tiger headed IAII fot the same money, and I love LS motors, but don't sell the Pontiac short. The world just keeps getting better for us Pontiac people. :)

[455firebird1969]

I have LS1 and 4L60E transmission, I got it the hard way, I started out with a perfectly good TA...

I would like to put it in a Astre/Vega, or a 240Z, something to run in the street class...

I look at it like its a corporate engine, since it was redesigned from the ground up, not like its a true Chevy engine...

I would never put it in a Firebird, unless it was a 3rd or 4th gen...

But thats just me, and my way of thinking...

[1bad70taclone]

Can anybody give this guy some input instead of downtalking the swap? The chevy bashing is getting old. This sounds like a mustang site. Hell even those guys are coming around. I myself would like to see a couple second gen cars with this swap. Granted a highly rare example should be kept stock is he has the stock drivetrain. Get another subframe and do no cutting so everything can be returned to stock.

[amcmike]

Check out www.ls1.com. Pretty friendly to swaps there and lots of knowlege. I think these guys creme as soon as you say the word LSX.

[pierced mikey]

The architecture is completely different from the original Chevy engine. It was designed from scratch by GM (not Chevy) Powertrain Engineers. I think only the bore center spacing is the same and the lifters actually fit both. It is a true "Corporate" engine because when it was conceived all Powertrain Divisions from the different brands were already consolidated. Of course that doesn't stop GM from playing both sides of the fence when they think it's beneficial for marketing (their latest anniversary book for the Chevy Smallblock included the LS motors). It's no more of a Chevy engine than it is a Pontiac engine.


G.M. calls it a Gen 3 smallblock, Gen 1 being the Chevy smallblock...you decide why they call it that...And shouldn't this thread be in the non Pontiac motors section???

[dammen8]

so has anyone actually seen a lsx block in person?

I have as I am putting one together for a friend and this block is much much different when compairing it to a 1st or 2nd gen chevy.... it really is a pretty neat looking block about 225lbs 6 bolt mains 6 bolts per cylinder (original was 4 per cylinder) ....just a neat block take a look if you get the chance..... but we are still waiting for the head stud kit to be made :(

Chad

[amcmike]

G.M. calls it a Gen 3 smallblock, Gen 1 being the Chevy smallblock...you decide why they call it that...And shouldn't this thread be in the non Pontiac motors section???

Maybe you can explain it. So the name is more important than the parts? By this logic, the LS6 put in the C5 corvettes is a Chevy Big Block? Oh, hey, great. That means the LS2 they put in the late model GTOs really was a Pontiac (SD) engine, sweet! :rolleyes:

What's a name mean? You can call it caviar if you want, but in the end it's still fish eggs.

:focus:

[lugnutt]

Did you guys see Pontiac High performance magazine, where they installed a LS1 in a
1st gen firebird? How can they do that in a Pontiac magazine? LOL

[lugnutt]

Oh, by the way. My STOCK 99' Trans am with a d1sc procharger made 430 rear wheel horsepower! Thats on a Mustang dyno, not the happy Dynojet dynos!

[1bad70taclone]

Did you guys see Pontiac High performance magazine, where they installed a LS1 in a
1st gen firebird? How can they do that in a Pontiac magazine? LOL
A good 6.0 with l92 heads will do that also. Procharger does a wonder to these things bone stock. I cant believe people are not loosened up to the lsx on here yet. You can go a .060 overbore for 377 cubes. The new escalade and denali are this configuration and go test drive one of those.

[1bad70taclone]

so has anyone actually seen a lsx block in person?

I have as I am putting one together for a friend and this block is much much different when compairing it to a 1st or 2nd gen chevy.... it really is a pretty neat looking block about 225lbs 6 bolt mains 6 bolts per cylinder (original was 4 per cylinder) ....just a neat block take a look if you get the chance..... but we are still waiting for the head stud kit to be made :(

Chad
I build them regularly. They are not that different but a little ugly to me. No pretty chrome to put on so i just polish every aluminum piece i can. And a very strong block even in aluminum. Get a book on them. There are several.

[MetalHead175]

I went from an old 72 Camaro with a built SBC, to my 99 WS6 with an LS1, and there is nothing "Chevy SB" about it. It's the newest, greatest motor from GM. It's not a chevy or anything its a GM. So what's all the fuss? They are amazing as far as power goes, and being efficient. Try getting 25mpg out of a 600 RWHP IA2...its not goina happen. I too believe in Pontiac in a Pontiac, but an LS series motor is a completly different story. Just my .02
-Jason

[lugnutt]

This is the shiznit! Check out this link.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=28

[Samhatco]

I'm doing it right now. 02 LS1 (from a Firebird WS6 Trans am) 05 T-56 (from a GTO) into a 69 Firebird vert that I'm making a T/A tribute. Absolutely the cheapest horsepower for the dollar. Had my engine built by Nickens Bros Racing Engines and is putting out 470 hp 420 ftlbs torq for less than $5,000. Now, I won't be ripping 9 sec 1/4miles, but the engine builder said I could with the right tune. Drive it there from home to the tract and still get 20+ miles to the gallon.

Check it out

http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showpost.php?p=338750&postcount=45

I guess I'm an infidell, but its your car, do what you want and enjoy it.

Sam

[Don 79 TA]

It could be worse...

My kids were watching the 3rd making of "The Fast and the Furious" Tokyo drift. Towards the end of the movie the main guy, an American, takes a 68 Shelby Mustang and installs a turbo Nissan Skyline motor in it...

Talk about making a die hard purist sick... ;)

At least the LSx motor is still a GM motor, with parts designed by Pontiac engineers.

I actually saw two of those cars when i was at the Volo Museum in IL.
no.. SH!T they really did put nissan motoros in them with turbos
the car looked nice, but man.... that was heart breaking...

hey.... at least they did that to a Ford and not a Ponti....

nice roll cage work inside the cars too

[RR67GTO]

Just thought I'd remind everyone that the first gen Firebird is not the strongest platform Pontiac ever made. Even with frame connectors, if your going to run some serious power, you'll need way more than a set of sub frame connectors.

A very good friend of mine is now in the process of having Super Duty build an IA engine for him with a super charger on it that is able to do I was told 800 HP no problem. But, his first plans were to use this for a 65 drop top he was given from his mom when he was a kid, be decided to go with a very nice pro built 79 TA. Because, the problem with lots of power, is it can ruin a nice car if many other things have not been considered.

Just a penny's worth of thoughts. Otherwise, make the thing the way you want it and enjoy it. I have two 68's myself, and I'm considering my 68 350 car as a place for the LS1 I have with less than 40 k on it. If, I can't sell it first.

Have fun ........ Mike

[lugnutt]

Check this work of art out!
www.extremefirebird.com

[Jimbro727]

I didn't read past the first page so maybe someone already said this.. but I don't get why everyone freaks out when guys talk about dropping an LS1/2 in a classic pontiac. Sure I see it *sometimes* in the car magazines, and not even really that often, and I subscribe to quite a few, but I rarely (read: almost NEVER) see them at car shows! So I'm not really sure how many guys are out there doing this.

In any event, why is an LS1 or an LS2 a Chevy block? GM puts them in Pontiacs, too. GTO anyone? Firebirds?? Whatever muscle Pontiac turns up next might very well have an LS2 under the hood. If it doesn't it will definitely have some LS series that some guys will brand as a Chevy. The days of each GM branch designing their own engines is over. I'm sorry to say it, but that time has passed.

Now, if someone wants to combine the reliability, power, and economy that a newer engine offers with the classic, bold, muscular look of some classic muscle, then why not? Why does everyone have to harp on it? This poor guy started a thread asking about some specific questions about putting an LS1 in his first gen bird, and all of a sudden some of you guys start bashing him. He wants to do it, and I say go for it! Your bird will rock. It will kick ass all day at the strip, get better fuel economy than a comparable classic block, and it'll be a fun learning experience. You'll be making the type of car that Pontiac SHOULD be making today! Classic styling with modern performance.

Go for it!!

:bolt:

[RandyW]

I didn't read past the first page so maybe someone already said this.. but I don't get why everyone freaks out when guys talk about dropping an LS1/2 in a classic pontiac. Sure I see it *sometimes* in the car magazines, and not even really that often, and I subscribe to quite a few, but I rarely (read: almost NEVER) see them at car shows! So I'm not really sure how many guys are out there doing this.

In any event, why is an LS1 or an LS2 a Chevy block? GM puts them in Pontiacs, too. GTO anyone? Firebirds?? Whatever muscle Pontiac turns up next might very well have an LS2 under the hood. If it doesn't it will definitely have some LS series that some guys will brand as a Chevy. The days of each GM branch designing their own engines is over. I'm sorry to say it, but that time has passed.

Now, if someone wants to combine the reliability, power, and economy that a newer engine offers with the classic, bold, muscular look of some classic muscle, then why not? Why does everyone have to harp on it? This poor guy started a thread asking about some specific questions about putting an LS1 in his first gen bird, and all of a sudden some of you guys start bashing him. He wants to do it, and I say go for it! Your bird will rock. It will kick ass all day at the strip, get better fuel economy than a comparable classic block, and it'll be a fun learning experience. You'll be making the type of car that Pontiac SHOULD be making today! Classic styling with modern performance.

Go for it!!

:bolt:
Amen!!!!!!!!