Barry Grant - 6 shooter intake and other issues

[eric65]

Barry Grant is really putting me thru the wringer with my intake manifold.. Am not sure of how I will report this and there service (which so far hasn't been good) until I get it back. But to say its been 'tuff' to get a good product and get a positive response from tech service is right now an understatement.

Sad this cost me $2600 and a poor looking product shouldnt be the end product

Will fill in the end when I get part back from them.

Skepitical eric65

[pontiac poncho]

What is the issue on the intake? I sell them, and I haven't had a problem with them yet.

[ks gto (Cap)]

I am also watching with interest. I've been seriuosly considering this setup for our 64. Cap

[Ron Landis]

prevents me from relaying any info about BG, as the last time I did, someone from this board faxed all my posts about it to my employer, resulting in three days off without pay and the threat of losing my job if I did not "cease and desist." As a result, I'll need to get my son to post some other info I have under his sign-on to avoid any further retaliation by this "fellow member." I don't feel that what they did was legal, but I cannot afford to stake my livelyhood on it. That is all I can say at present time...stay tuned! Ron

[eric65]

Follow-up

Ron sounds like others have experienced issues with BG and support, I cant specualte on yours, but here is mine. I hate to hear of you getting days off for being truthful or reporting problems with a manufacture. You possibly could save people many $'s If a fellow member here did this to you .. that is a cowardly and low down act... That person should be banned from here as this is a forum and its intent is to inform all users of positives and negatives about manufactures as well as detailed info. (I speculate that it could have been......pm me for my guess)

Bought the BG Pontiac 6 pack for my project, and have been deliberating wheather to use it or not or go to a dual quad.. but I will keep it due to the fit problems I have found ..

Well upon getting it noticed the front carb would not fit where the studs were OK. So BG's support ask to send back or I can round out the carb base hole// Well I sent back and they fixed ok..

Well next I mocked it up on my heads and noticed that when trying to bolt it up 2 bolts will not go in on each side by the intake runners.. Well this is 2 problems with the intake, so getting kind of angry:mad: .. Call BG about problem 2 they say we can shave intake runners or you can try. There tech says just grind off a little intake runner to accomidate the bolt..

Well I figure I wil try it, instead of sending back AGAIN .. So I did but without thinking that this intake is cast aluminum. Well I can get the bolts in now but the finish is NOT GOOD. I should have figured this anytime you grind or file aluminum the finish will not be the same..So now the fit is ok but the finish is a disaster...

So I'm pretty unhappy by now my intake will fit but it looks like hell and am not sure of how to deal with it..

I sends it to BG and of course with their junk support and standing behind their product they will not replace with a good one..
I have read that there were 2 intake runs a early and late, in which the late one fixed the problems of fit and bolt up.. So I have a early poor fit intake obviously

I reckon the gripe is that I spent $2500 on a product that had 2 big problems and were never fit tested at the factory and now I have one that looks bad. Functionallity it should/could be fine and I havent tried that aspect of it SO I can only pray it works as I know BG support will be no help/:mad:

Pontiac Poncho I guess if you sell them you have the late run intake and therefore have no problems. Guess on my part

Cap if you get one make sure you get a late run intake and make sure it fits in every way.

If I had it to do again I would not I would recommend not to buy from BG and they dont stand behind their ill fitting products.

Cap I would hope that the unit runs fine but I cannot support or recommend them to you. I would try and get a 66 tri power and have it worked to run on your bigger than stock cubic inch engine. Possible from Mike's Tripowers

I have been burned by BG but I think my unit will work just looks like crap .. But at every show/cruise in and so on I will make every effort to blast BG and their products and show and tell of problems unrectified.

Best Regards
Eric65

[Ron Landis]

I cannot imagine any company NOT eating a few bucks on inital runs of any item. What could an intake cost them? Advertising is not cheap and word of mouth advertising is priceless. I know from my own retail experience that if you have a bad experience with a product, you'll tell ten times as many folks as you would about something going as it should...and with much more passion! Doesn't make good sense to me, but I'm just a grunt. Personally, I'm a devout Quick Fuel Technologies fan for life! Take care. Ron

[fastgto]

I too had a problem with Barry Grant customer service. I e-mailed them and this was the response I got back.



The people that were causing the problems in customer service are no longer employed
with the company, as the owner finally got tired of reading and seeing that our
customers were not receiving the responses they should have.


Well I hope, and think this will solve the problems of bad customer service as they do have some good products. I will re-order from them and see what happens.

[eric65]

WOW or LOL
When was this revealed to you??? I had recent dealing with their support but I think it was over a month or 2 ago and I'm gonna lambaste them every chance I get
Hum


I am not sure I would trust them...on their customer support or lack there of..

Good Luck with them but be very careful...

Eric

[fastgto]

This was e-mailed to me today Dec 26th from Barry Grant`s people. Cross your fingers on this and we will see what happens. Seems strange they are working the 26th though.

[eric65]

How did these 2 different topics get merged?????

[b-man]

How did these 2 different topics get merged?????Sometimes we will merge two threads dealing with similar problems with the same vendor. This keeps the forum free of too many duplicate threads on the same basic subject, making it easier to find info on this vendor.

[eric65]

Then can you change the title to specify their manifold as that is what mine had pertained too But if not no problem I was looking for it and lost it and I know ks gto Cap may want to revisit this thread

Thanks
eric

[Region Warrior]

prevents me from relaying any info about BG, as the last time I did, someone from this board faxed all my posts about it to my employer, resulting in three days off without pay and the threat of losing my job if I did not "cease and desist." As a result, I'll need to get my son to post some other info I have under his sign-on to avoid any further retaliation by this "fellow member." I don't feel that what they did was legal, but I cannot afford to stake my livelyhood on it. That is all I can say at present time...stay tuned! Ron

I'd make it my quest to find this person and break all his/fingers and thumbs...for starters.
People have been killed for stuff like that.

:mad:

Sad to say i've heard NOTHING good about B.G. customer service in last 5 yrs.
I've had a couple new carbs, and had to go through'm.
Clean'm and fix minor stuff.
But worked good afterwards.
Have one now that is giving me prob's.

[ks gto (Cap)]

Thanks eric65- I am tracking it with great interest. Thanks. Cap

[eric65]

Well to follow up I have heard from bg support. Around the time of the bg support thread started by fastgto(and thank you for it) about their support being different, I had sent a letter to BG himself about my intake. Explained to him in letter about it not fitting and my trimming and the following I tried to get the finish right. Also that I was unhappy about their support.

Well got a call today from a Adam Campbell for follow up and he said upon review by BG himself and fellow VP's they would special offer me to be able to buy a new BG 6 shooter manifold to replace mine..for a meger $350
We agreed that I should have not removed material(and extra material I tried) myself but should have removed material and if not happy with the finish should have sent it back and maybe the out come would have been different. :confused:

Adam tells me they fix many of these intake in this way.. They grind off excess material and then get the finish as close as possible to correct so you can't really tell its been done.;) All this for $2500

To sum up I can buy a correct fitting intake to replace mine I havent really put on yet. This is their final word, and from bg himself.

Well imho I am still unhappy with BG and bg products and their response. I had already sent this intake back once for non fitting carb. My big mistake was not demanding a refund after sending back the 1st time. So I am stuck, I can get the intake to fit but getting it to look decent will not happen.

To Cap or anyone else looking to buy the 6 shooter I would suggest not to, I have zero confidence in bg support. If the president, owner, and, grand puba's response is let the customer buy another intake. Decide yourself if you want his products on your car, and what will you do if you have a problem.

Best Regards
Eric65

[Tech @ BG]

Well to follow up I have heard from bg support. Around the time of the bg support thread started by fastgto(and thank you for it) about their support being different, I had sent a letter to BG himself about my intake. Explained to him in letter about it not fitting and my trimming and the following I tried to get the finish right. Also that I was unhappy about their support.

Well got a call today from a Adam Campbell for follow up and he said upon review by BG himself and fellow VP's they would special offer me to be able to buy a new BG 6 shooter manifold to replace mine..for a meger $350
We agreed that I should have not removed material(and extra material I tried) myself but should have removed material and if not happy with the finish should have sent it back and maybe the out come would have been different. :confused:

Adam tells me they fix many of these intake in this way.. They grind off excess material and then get the finish as close as possible to correct so you can't really tell its been done.;) All this for $2500

To sum up I can buy a correct fitting intake to replace mine I havent really put on yet. This is their final word, and from bg himself.

Well imho I am still unhappy with BG and bg products and their response. I had already sent this intake back once for non fitting carb. My big mistake was not demanding a refund after sending back the 1st time. So I am stuck, I can get the intake to fit but getting it to look decent will not happen.

To Cap or anyone else looking to buy the 6 shooter I would suggest not to, I have zero confidence in bg support. If the president, owner, and, grand puba's response is let the customer buy another intake. Decide yourself if you want his products on your car, and what will you do if you have a problem.

Best Regards
Eric65Eric,
I have read this post and much like the letter that was written to Barry you seem to take the words you want out and twist them to suit your case. We will resize the pictures of the intake that you refer to and post them tomorrow so that the other members can make their own judgement. You ground nearly 85% of the surface of the intake if not more and then demanded for us to replace the intake with a new one. We made the first repair for you as asked for and when you determined some months later that you had issues with starting a couple of the bolts we once again offered to get it back here and correct it for you under warranty. You declined and decided to cut the reliefs yourself for the bolt heads and after grinding too much material away decided to continue on and grind most of the surface on the remainder of the manifold. You stated that I said "Adam tells me they fix many of these in this way" and once again you have taken out of context and twisted my words to suit yourself. What I stated to you was that some of the early manifolds had to be modified in the area around a couple of the bolt heads and that once the issue was brought to our attention that machining process had been incorporated into the machining of the manifolds as we get them from the foundry and have to machine them. I also went on to tell you that I was looking at one of these manifolds and when properly done it was not noticable.

[Region Warrior]

Tech@BG
Thanks for responding.
Not try'n to point fingers. There are usually 2 sides.
And a company like yours can only get better(products & service) by going public like here.

When you make new products, do you test(moch up) on an assembled engine before bringing to market?
Not being a A.S., just wondering.
I've had problems with some Edelbrock manifolds as well.
And when you deck blocks and mill heads, need to mill intake side of head or intake manifold.
Maybe this could be one of eric65's problems?
Hard to deturmine problem without pic's, but carb mounting off?

[eric65]

You ground nearly 85% of the surface of the intake if not more and then demanded for us to replace the intake with a new one

You declined and decided to cut the reliefs yourself for the bolt heads and after grinding too much material away decided to continue on and grind most of the surface on the remainder of the manifold.

True: explanation after sending back the 1st time, found bolts would not go in. Called tech support. Tech Steve says: "you can grind away excess material or we can". I tried as I after once sending back for fit issues didnt want to send again of could get away with it..After grinding enuff to get bolt in find that intake finish is now bad or different from original cast. Try to get rest of manifold uniform in finish so started doing it all, and will continue.

We made the first repair for you as asked for and when you determined some months later that you had issues with starting a couple of the bolts we once again offered to get it back here and correct it for you under warranty

4 Bolts. Tech Steve didnt state warranty in conversation I didnt ask warranty either was trying to make this work.


I also went on to tell you that I was looking at one of these manifolds and when properly done it was not noticable.
In your opinion



We will resize the pictures of the intake that you refer to and post them tomorrow so that the other members can make their own judgement

Do not forget to mention to members that you have in an effort to make it look decent put the manifold in the tumbler per our agreement to try that fix simnce replacement is not an option 4 me.

Points to consider
Your tech should not advise that the customer could grind away material
You should not send out ill fitting parts
You knowing the manifold had bolt alignment issues should have repaired this when you had it the 1st time
You should make a point to be more customer friendly.

Suppose I would have sent this manifold back and you replaced it What would you have done with the original? I hope not supply it to someone else..

I suppose a point here is say if you buy Edelbrock heads and port them and say crack them is Edelbrock liable. No-- they probably state any modification the customer is liable.
If a Tech rep says however you can modify a non fitting part and you try it who is liable. Seems I am according to BG and maybe members here as well think this or this is there opinion.

However they didnt pay the $2500 for the non fitting part, and the advice to try to grind it myself.
Lets say I didnt grind it at all then are you Barry Grant proud of the fact that these early manifolds have many fit issues?
Thanks
Eric

[Tech @ BG]

Tech@BG
Thanks for responding.
Not try'n to point fingers. There are usually 2 sides.
And a company like yours can only get better(products & service) by going public like here.

When you make new products, do you test(moch up) on an assembled engine before bringing to market?
Not being a A.S., just wondering.
I've had problems with some Edelbrock manifolds as well.
And when you deck blocks and mill heads, need to mill intake side of head or intake manifold.
Maybe this could be one of eric65's problems?
Hard to deturmine problem without pic's, but carb mounting off?Region Warrior, I don't see that as a bad question and in fact when we are developing new intakes such as this we do use original factory parts such as blocks,heads and intakes for reference. With the Pontiac version we even went as far as to have an original tri-power intake on hand as well as these components being at the casting house. As you mentioned when it comes to cast parts the issues are not just limited to our company but we do address the issues as quick as we discover them or am made aware of them.

[Tech @ BG]

True: explanation after sending back the 1st time, found bolts would not go in. Called tech support. Tech Steve says: "you can grind away excess material or we can". I tried as I after once sending back for fit issues didnt want to send again of could get away with it..After grinding enuff to get bolt in find that intake finish is now bad or different from original cast. Try to get rest of manifold uniform in finish so started doing it all, and will continue.



4 Bolts. Tech Steve didnt state warranty in conversation I didnt ask warranty either was trying to make this work.



In your opinion



Do not forget to mention to members that you have in an effort to make it look decent put the manifold in the tumbler per our agreement to try that fix simnce replacement is not an option 4 me.

Points to consider
Your tech should not advise that the customer could grind away material
You should not send out ill fitting parts
You knowing the manifold had bolt alignment issues should have repaired this when you had it the 1st time
You should make a point to be more customer friendly.

Suppose I would have sent this manifold back and you replaced it What would you have done with the original? I hope not supply it to someone else..

I suppose a point here is say if you buy Edelbrock heads and port them and say crack them is Edelbrock liable. No-- they probably state any modification the customer is liable.
If a Tech rep says however you can modify a non fitting part and you try it who is liable. Seems I am according to BG and maybe members here as well think this or this is there opinion.

However they didnt pay the $2500 for the non fitting part, and the advice to try to grind it myself.
Lets say I didnt grind it at all then are you Barry Grant proud of the fact that these early manifolds have many fit issues?
Thanks
Eric
Eric,The pictures we will be posting are of the intake as we received it from you before any work was done by us. As our original conversation before we did anything on it the second time and tumbled it the fact was discussed[and brought up by you] that you yourself had cut too much material off the manifold in other areas not even affected by the 4 bolts and wanted to know if we could weld it up and remachine it.It was at this point that I told you we would not be repairing those areas and due to the damage you created the only thing we could do for you was to put in in the mill and try to clean the bottom side up for you where you cut it for the valley pan. It was discussed in a later conversation that if you wanted, we could try and tumble it to see if it would help the appearence at no charge to you but we had no idea how it would look afterwards. I even went as far to tell you that it would not make it smooth and it may look spotted. You told me you were well aware of tumbling and to go ahead with the process.

[Tech @ BG]

This was e-mailed to me today Dec 26th from Barry Grant`s people. Cross your fingers on this and we will see what happens. Seems strange they are working the 26th though.fastgto, we were open the 26th,27th and 28th and we make an effort to try and answer the emails in a timely manner. I am aware that this has not occured in the past thus the response you received that Barry made changes in the tech support department that resulted in the head technical advisor and the people under him are no longer with the company.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

I'm glad that BG even went to this extreme in this case. I have one of these intakes the customer brought for his build to my shop. I think I see the issue with the second bolt hole back on the drivers side. Too tight a fit to install a factory type bolt & draw snug properly.
** First off I would try the smaller headed 12 point S.S. ARP bolts. I tried one and not an issue & looks that a SS bolt with washer will fit. Maybe he has the later intake design?
The customer didn't have the carbs so is this going to be an issue I need to address before I attempt to mount it on the engine?

The intake is untouched so if there is any issues Feel free to contact me and I will send it back, if that's Ok with BG to make corrections or exchange it?

Thanks for your on line efforts and responses. Better then some businesses out there (and people & they know who they are ) when issues develop and never even have courtesy to help their customers, replace said product or respond to readers.

So if anyone else is going to not do business because they had an issue that was at least attempted to resolve with a return and even come on line to help. Then also apply that same ideal to said vendors that don't offer any support of said product or response. Wink, wink.

Look at the fit issues with the Edelbrock Victor. I don't see those sales dropping. Hurricane intake, flexplates, Perfromer rpm, and the list goes on. Some of this is a given with me in the aftermarket business as it's not a stock rebuild and taken with a grin of salt. Ya gotta do what ya got to do. I've even had issues with factory parts but still love and race my Pontiacs. LOL.

Like RW said. two sides and have heard both. The banter can go on for ever as to who said what. Pics will tell the story.

Let me know what ya want me to do? PM e-mail or call 352-796-8800, Thanks, Ken.other

[Tech @ BG]

Here is the first of several pictures. These were taken as it was received by us and before we took any action with it.

[Tech @ BG]

#2 . Also I know the pics are small but if you click on them it will bring them up in a larger size.

[Tech @ BG]

#3 picture

[Tech @ BG]

#4 picture

[Tech @ BG]

Last one

[Region Warrior]

Darn it.
Didnt get a chance to see pic's at work, and home puter color drive is fubar.
Have to wait till Monday now.

P-Dude, could a stud w/nut be used at that location instead of a bolt?

Agree on Victor's and RPM's.
Have had mounting issue's with a couple. Sounds simular as the 6-Shooter.
One RPM would not pull down/seal evenly on both banks till grinding out 4 holes.
Same with a Victor, but required lots more grinding to match.

[Tom Vaught]

I must have one of the early 6 Shooter intakes too.

I looked at my intake a few minutes ago and can see the obvious issues that the other poster had.

Here is the deal:

There are two bolt holes on top of the water cross-over. When that area was cast there was a very generous radius put into the casting mold where the mounting flange blends into the top of the cross-over. This makes an bolt hole that does not have a parallel surface with the head flange. You put a bolt without a washer into the hole and only 1/2 of the bolt head will contact the manifold due to the generous radius. This is present on both sides of the cross-over.

THE ONLY way to fix this deal is to spot face the area around the bolt hole so that you have a FLAT surface to apply even torque to the surface of the mounting flange. I can see where the man thought by grinding on the surface you would make it better. The only way to do it right and have it look right is with the spot face tool. That is two of the 4 issues mentioned by the poster.

The other two issues are a similar problem with the bolt holes in the front of the #2 runner and #1 runner. Same kind of WIDE generous radius for the casting but again the radius does not allow the bolt to seat properly. In this case the radius is located in the blend from the mounting flange to the runner front side wall. Problem here is that a normal spot face tool will not work as the carb mounting flange masks the bolt hole from a line of sight to the centerline of the mounting hole. A special tool that would go through the manifold bolt hole then allow attachment of a cutting tool is necessary. Such a tool is made but the average Pontiac guy would never have access to it. With this tool the area could be spot-faced parallel to the head flange like the cross-over hole.

It appears to me that we had a case of OH $chit! on the runner bolt holes and lazy attitude on the rest of the holes AFTER they found out they could not do the front runner holes properly. Probably someone in production said, "Screw it, let the customer figure this design screw-up out".

I personally know that with the right tools and McLaren Racing's expert machinists I could get my manifold fixed. It would not be cheap. Course I did not pay $2600 for my deal as I bought the thing at the last Norwalk Pontiac Nationals swap meet.

Asking a customer to cough up an additional $350.00 to fix his intake sounds about right for the labor costs to fix the thing BUT for the same $350.00 you can buy a brand new Ames Performance Aluminum Rochester carb intake. It might require minor tweaks but you are not out $2600 before you even get started in the deal.

The casting guy at BG as I said kicked out a decent looking intake BUT the machining guys got lazy of the final machining with bolt holes in the wrong spots on the carb flanges, no spot faced bolt holes, non machined intake to head flange surfaces, etc.

JMO

Tom Vaught (ENGINEER and Pontiac Enthusiast)

[67 Lamnas]

Hey Tom, Did you get your BG set-up from Mike Wasson at Norwalk? He had three and I helped assemble the one on display there......all three were early production set-ups...
ting hole
Just wondering as we observed the bolt hole issues and also the carb mounting hole location problem for the front carb....

[eric65]

The good thing for me is its aluminum and I bought a polishing kit from Eastwoods
Bad thing is that it will be much labor But I got time right?? Will teach me to be lazy about sending something back to the manufacture a 2nd time..
The tech guy showed pix of the bottom and I did have to remove surface here to match for my valley pan gasket combo which must of had a high gasket. I never complained about this to bg or anyone as its un-noticeable. Why tech posted pix I can only figure to state their case. My complaint was about the finish on the showing side of intake.
Thanks
eric65

[GonicGM]

...
The tech guy showed pix of the bottom and I did have to remove surface here to match for my valley pan gasket combo which must of had a high gasket...
Thanks
eric65

I feel for you for all the issues that you've had. Regarding statement above, I would modify the intake to clear a valley pan but not a gasket. I'd trim the gasket, needs not be any larger than valley pan installed. Tuck the gasket in as far as possible or flush to edge of pan (whichever comes first). Remember, the 65-up valley pans have notches around the intake runners. The 64 and earlier do not. Many if not all 65 and newer intakes will hit at the runners on the 64 and earlier valley pans.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

The good thing for me is its aluminum and I bought a polishing kit from Eastwoods
Bad thing is that it will be much labor But I got time right?? Will teach me to be lazy about sending something back to the manufacture a 2nd time..
The tech guy showed pix of the bottom and I did have to remove surface here to match for my valley pan gasket combo which must of had a high gasket. I never complained about this to bg or anyone as its un-noticeable. Why tech posted pix I can only figure to state their case. My complaint was about the finish on the showing side of intake.
Thanks
eric65

Just a simple question.

Do I understand this right? You decided to polish it and then 3/4's the way thru decided you want you money back? And also after you ground on the bottom side quite noticably.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

I feel for you for all the issues that you've had. Regarding statement above, I would modify the intake to clear a valley pan but not a gasket. I'd trim the gasket, needs not be any larger than valley pan installed. Tuck the gasket in as far as possible or flush to edge of pan (whichever comes first). Remember, the 65-up valley pans have notches around the intake runners. The 64 and earlier do not. Many if not all 65 and newer intakes will hit at the runners on the 64 and earlier valley pans.

I take the gasket pushed in as far as I can with a wide tipped screwdriver once I Snug the pan bolts down. Then take a knife and run it down the rail to remove any excess gasket. Nice and clean install.

[eric65]

Do I understand this right? You decided to polish it and then 3/4's the way thru decided you want you money back?
Never said wanted money back after polishing was asking for a new manifold
They advised me I could remove excess material or they could. I tried after looking at the finish then was wondering how to make ot even. Well as Tom V says prob the only way to get the finish even is the tooling he is talking bout. I dont have it so next with my limits is polishing. and ya I sent back after going a ways on it..

My beefs are this
1) the 1st time it was back @ BG (obviuos they knew of bolt issue) why didnt they rectify then? Or advise me of this so decision can be made then?
2) why advise me I could remove excess material myself or send it again and they can try
3) and when I did send it back they have been very hard a$$ with me..their only recommend was tumbling.. The offer to buy another only came after a letter to BG.. after a couple of months

No compalint with bottom other than it should have been a better fit these are very thick on bottom and placing my valley cover there with gaskter it hit, BUT you cant see mods here can you. So acceptable Didnt like having to do it but acceptable as its hidden...

[Tom Vaught]

Like I said Kenny, the original Sin is with BG not machining the manifold proberly.

The second sin was telling the customer HE could try and fix it vs saying send it back for repair or money back.

Third sin is ASSUMING that any aftermarket part will be a totally free of issues bolt on application. Very few are. Oil Pumps, intakes, camshafts, I check everything.

Tom V.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Like I said Kenny, the original Sin is with BG not machining the manifold proberly.

The second sin was telling the customer HE could try and fix it vs saying send it back for repair or money back.

Third sin is ASSUMING that any aftermarket part will be a totally free of issues bolt on application. Very few are. Oil Pumps, intakes, camshafts, I check everything.

Tom V.

Tom according to the posts above he was told he could send it back but decided to do it himself. Not being on the phone to hear both sides but see the post of said conversation and not wanting to send it back again.
It is one thing to grind for clearance and another to polish 3/4's of the intake and then want a refund, another or justice.
Tom, look at the final result on the intake he returned and wanting an exchange. It's one thing to return it grinding on the bolt hole location another to take it back after all that grinding. If you do it for one then you would open the door to everyone doing it.

Yes, the early pieces seemed to have an issue ........... that is now corrected.

Yes, I too check everything, but sometimes you have to get almost done to check something and then fix it. Just part of the aftermarket hop up deal.
They offered to take care of it each time. I don't know what more a company can do when a person calls with a problem and offers to fix it. It isn't like they told him to GFH.

I can see the carb mounting deal as that had to do with a program designed to drill and tap holes that went south till it was noticed. Probably after intakes already went out the door. But they fixed it. Then the bolt hole deal If done properly would hardly have been noticed. I have ground intakes and glass beaded the dog out of them in that area and you would be hard pressed with all the crap on the engine to notice it............ unless you were Anal retentive.

I remember a certain Pontiac company ignored and hung people out to dry and people never posted a response for fear of doing business with them in the future. Shame. I think BG did go out of their way to make it right. :D ;)

Not referring to any other Parts issues anywhere else or any other time, but they did give solutions, just the owner went slightly overboard. I too would suggest elongating the carb hole. I too would have told him to grind it. But still give a person the option to return it which they did both times. Seems like more and more people are getting more & more impatient rather that thinking things out. But then again if ya do your own stuff and it isn't stock, you will have to put up with the trials and tribulations of engine bulding 101 as I have been told. LOL>

I'm probably now on eric'slist of people not to do business with :( but right is right and wrong is wrong.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Tom. I know lots of people that have taken NEW FORDS back to the dealer to fix ........ and even the same problem over and over. So what does that mean. Don't buy a Ford? LOL.

[GonicGM]

...I have ground intakes and glass beaded the dog out of them in that area and you would be hard pressed with all the crap on the engine to notice it............

If you actually hit it with coarse sand at moderate pressure, you could probably get a texture like cast as well...as long as the sand doesn't embed and you have to dig it out. But as we all know, sandblasting sucks and you don't want to do it in your cabinet.

[Dick Boneske]

The OEM setups look better all the time!! I have yet to read a posting by anyone that has used one of the "BG Sixshooters" and had no problems with it. For $2,600, one would expect everything to fit--especially after these have been proclaimed by so many to be so great!!

[67 Lamnas]

The OEM setups look better all the time!! I have yet to read a posting by anyone that has used one of the "BG Sixshooters" and had no problems with it. For $2,600, one would expect everything to fit--especially after these have been proclaimed by so many to be so great!!


The only people I've noticed proclaiming it to be so great is employees of Barry Grant.

[eric65]

I'm probably now on eric'slist of people not to do business with but right is right and wrong is wrong.
Not at all Ken but part of this is your fault.. As about this time I was asking Danee' about valley pans and your aluminum one but she said it dosent have a pcv hole and said I would have to use an valve cover one. So we were thinking about high valve covers and my power brake booster hitting so didnt get your valley cover.. So if your cover had a pcv hole I wouldnt have had to grind bottom.. YOUR FAULT entirely;)

hahah lol just kidding Ken. I'll probably be calling you buggin Danee' for more parts sometime.

I certainlly see where peeps will come down on both sides here I should not have tried this myself in hindsight. I should have asked for refund after 1st time back. If I had it to do over would have stuck with my 66 OEM trips but I sold them to fund this and it wasnt even steven:(

[Tom Vaught]

Quote:

"Tom. I know lots of people that have taken NEW FORDS back to the dealer to fix ........ and even the same problem over and over. So what does that mean. Don't buy a Ford? LOL."

I know you are kidding but it is a cheap shot when in this post, I described the intake, what the issues were, how to fix them, and what the man did based on instructions from BG. Ford had NOTHING to do with this post.

Like I said a cheap shot when a FORD ENGINEER was trying to help a PONTIAC guy with his problem.

Tom V.

[RAJ7395]

TECH @ GB

I have a brand new early Barry Grant 6 shooter still in the box. This manifold has the same bolt holes issues listed above.

What is the exact procedure that I need to follow to get the manifold reworked??

Does BG pay for the shipping both ways??

Thanks

[Tech @ BG]

TECH @ GB

I have a brand new early Barry Grant 6 shooter still in the box. This manifold has the same bolt holes issues listed above.

What is the exact procedure that I need to follow to get the manifold reworked??

Does BG pay for the shipping both ways??

Thanks
You have a PM.

[Tech @ BG]

Tom,
You also have a pm regarding the intake mentioned in your post.

[Tech @ BG]

I have shared this information with a couple of you through pm's but will also post it for the other members as well. The first initial run of intakes were machined by a reputable outside vendor for us. As noted here, we have seen some machine issues with a few of these. Since that run, Barry made the decision to move the machining of them in house along with creating new tooling for such which has allowed us to keep a closer watch and tighter qc on them. This is the current process that is in use. If any of the other members have an early intake that they would like to have brought up to current spec we will perform this service on your intake under warranty for you. Feel free to pm me.

[Ron Landis]

I will have my sign-on changed and can re-enter this "conversation" with some more insight. As any good American knows...free speech lives! Like it or not. Ron

[Tom Vaught]

I am planning on sending my intake back to BG for the updates mentioned in his last post to make the intake "right"

Tom Vaught

[PONTIAC DUDE]

I am planning on sending my intake back to BG for the updates mentioned in his last post to make the intake "right"

Tom Vaught


Hey Tom. At least they return e-mails, post results and calls & will make it right.
More then some Pontiac vendors/businesses will do. wink, wink.

And no silent GFY. LOL. :D

[johnta1]

Another problem?

Six-shooter (http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9080)

[stagger lee]

being blown off after reporting two instances of metal shavings in the fuel bowls of brand new carbs, I find that inexcusible on their part."Yeah....you have to wash them out." I was told. New carbs? Isn't that their responsibility? Now...it seems folks are left to deal with yet another quality control issue. It'll take a little more than lip service for them to regain my confidence and I share my experience with anyone that asks my opinion on fuel systems. I wish all of you luck that got burnt on this deal. Maybe they did fire a few folks, but after one of their techs tried to get me fired by e-mailing my employer not once, but twice for telling it like it is...well, I don't thing the blood-letting quite went far enough. I'll be watching, though. Again...good luck! :cool:

[RAJ7395]

All, I called BG tech support and explained that I had an early manifold and wanted it reworked to production specs. They gave me a return authorizaton number and said to ship just the intake back in the seperate box that it was packaged in. I opened the big box for the first time, removed the intake box, and shipped it on 01/16/2008. I'll report on what happens.

I never opened the carb boxes but (to address the previous threads) I will take them over to a buddies carb shop and we'll open the boxes, remove the air horns, and inspect the fuel bowls for debris. That way it's not just my word for it.

Rob

[Rugratman]

With my Demon, when I opened it to clean out all the crap in it. And believe me, there was quiet a bit. I was so unhappy, I tried to send it back......."But, since you opened it. It can not be retuned!"
No freakin way in the world it was inspected...No way.

They are all talk. Save your money.
For the cost, it should be be bolt on ready. Period. No issues. Period.
I also tell everybody I can. Maybe they want to call my boss also?

[Tech @ BG]

being blown off after reporting two instances of metal shavings in the fuel bowls of brand new carbs, I find that inexcusible on their part."Yeah....you have to wash them out." I was told. New carbs? Isn't that their responsibility? Now...it seems folks are left to deal with yet another quality control issue. It'll take a little more than lip service for them to regain my confidence and I share my experience with anyone that asks my opinion on fuel systems. I wish all of you luck that got burnt on this deal. Maybe they did fire a few folks, but after one of their techs tried to get me fired by e-mailing my employer not once, but twice for telling it like it is...well, I don't thing the blood-letting quite went far enough. I'll be watching, though. Again...good luck! :cool:
Well it looks like "jegstek" is posting under his new name and considering a prior remark posted "Personally, I'm a devout Quick Fuel Technologies fan for life! Take care. Ron"
have to give very little credibility to some of the statements posted . We would never tell a customer ."Yeah....you have to wash them out." In regards to the shavings issue this was addressed quite awhile back when it was brought to our attention and numerous steps were implemented to cut down on this. The area in which the gaskets were stored and used from was changed as well as the way parts were being moved within the building in an effort to keep from picking up the shavings. We also installed a sonic wash machine which the billet parts go through after being machined . With billet parts such as metering blocks there could always be some fragment or piece that would not come out in the wash or be dislodged in shipping/usage as well but the number of these we see and hear about has dropped drastically since the above steps were taken. Much like the intake issues, we have always admitted and taken the actions as needed to try and take care of our customers unlike some of our competitors. We also continue to use U.S. made components and zinc in our castings.

http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/recalls_detail.aspx?id=070045T

http://www.holley.com/HolleyNews/Volvo%20Penta%20Carburetor%20Recall.asp

[Tech @ BG]

With my Demon, when I opened it to clean out all the crap in it. And believe me, there was quiet a bit. I was so unhappy, I tried to send it back......."But, since you opened it. It can not be retuned!"
No freakin way in the world it was inspected...No way.

They are all talk. Save your money.
For the cost, it should be be bolt on ready. Period. No issues. Period.
I also tell everybody I can. Maybe they want to call my boss also?We have never denied warranty to a customer because they " opened " up a carburetor . It is a common practice if a customer calls with an issue that we may ask them to pull a bowl and look or take a needle and seat out so I am sure there is a lot more to the story then you have elected to post. We have even gone as far as repairing some under warranty way past the 90 days if we feel the issue was a defect or something we did incorrectly.

[Rugratman]

I wanted a full refund, not a " repair " of my new carb.
And what I posted is without a doubt the truth.

However, if my new carb was in fact inspected, then all the issues I had would have been found, correct? Same with all the BG carb's, no?

I have been down this road before with BG. I am just posting, my own experience.
So anybody, who has to open their new carbs up, and clean out the " New Debris ", and is unhappy with the carb, is more then welcome to send back the carb(s) or 6 shooter back for a full refund? Is that what your saying? Or after they receive the carb, it can ony be sent back for " repair "?
These intakes that are machined incorrectly, can these customers send them back for a full refund? I guess that's the easiest way to ask the question.

[eric65]

BG Tech, respectfully I really never wanted to respond to you or this thread anymore about my issue with BG or others, but your post's here touch a cord with me deeply.

Adam a big issue with me and BG support was your and your tech's attitude toward the customer/me. I felt I was treated with disrespect and a certain arrogance on the phone by tech's and you which regrettibly on my part led to me loosing my temper with your company on occasion when I discussed this with y'all. I am sorry for that and that will never happen again. I am still greatly disappointed in your company and its support for issues I had/have.

I troubles me greatly however again that your arrogance once again rears it's ugly head in our forum. These 'Customers' and PY members are posting of problems with, it looks to me conversations with your tech support, and your in effect calling them L1ars. It all sounds oh so familiar of in my case pointing the finger of blame to the customer.

You as a representative of your company SHOULD NOT be taking pot shots at a members post here as in the case of stagger lee's. You should try in the future to address customer issues with more tact and be more helpful. Trust me your results will be more favorable.

Best Regards
Eric

[Tech @ BG]

I wanted a full refund, not a " repair " of my new carb.
And what I posted is without a doubt the truth.

However, if my new carb was in fact inspected, then all the issues I had would have been found, correct? Same with all the BG carb's, no?

I have been down this road before with BG. I am just posting, my own experience.
So anybody, who has to open their new carbs up, and clean out the " New Debris ", and is unhappy with the carb, is more then welcome to send back the carb(s) or 6 shooter back for a full refund? Is that what your saying? Or after they receive the carb, it can ony be sent back for " repair "?
These intakes that are machined incorrectly, can these customers send them back for a full refund? I guess that's the easiest way to ask the question.The warranty as stated both in our catolog and in the instruction manual for the carburetor clearly states "the Warrantor will repair or replace the product, or any defective parts or parts threreof,at the election of the Warrantor" . This warranty is pretty much industry standard. Since we do not sell direct to the public you would have had to purchased this through one of our dealers and should they choose to offer you something other than our warranty policy would be entirely up to them.

[Tech @ BG]

BG Tech, respectfully I really never wanted to respond to you or this thread anymore about my issue with BG or others, but your post's here touch a cord with me deeply.

Adam a big issue with me and BG support was your and your tech's attitude toward the customer/me. I felt I was treated with disrespect and a certain arrogance on the phone by tech's and you which regrettibly on my part led to me loosing my temper with your company on occasion when I discussed this with y'all. I am sorry for that and that will never happen again. I am still greatly disappointed in your company and its support for issues I had/have.

I troubles me greatly however again that your arrogance once again rears it's ugly head in our forum. These 'Customers' and PY members are posting of problems with, it looks to me conversations with your tech support, and your in effect calling them L1ars. It all sounds oh so familiar of in my case pointing the finger of blame to the customer.

You as a representative of your company SHOULD NOT be taking pot shots at a members post here as in the case of stagger lee's. You should try in the future to address customer issues with more tact and be more helpful. Trust me your results will be more favorable.

Best Regards
Eric
Simply addressing false satements made. We have been very open in admitting issues both here and on any of the other forums we monitor and feel we even go beyond what most other companies do when it comes to warranty issues.Try sending your computer or even your vehicle back after the stated warranty period has expired and see what kind of help you are offered. We have even offered to correct the issues on one manifold that was bought second hand and in another section offered to look at a used carburetor.Not taking pot shots or pointing the blame anywhere but your personal vandetta against us is well documented much like the poster now known as"stagger lee".
I have said this many times that if anyone has a warranty issue we will be more then glad to look at the product and make a decision even if the warranty time has expired.If a product goes out of here with an issue or is defective we most certainly want to get it back here to look at and make corrections as well as determining why it happened and taking measures to keep it from happening again.

[Tech @ BG]

All, I called BG tech support and explained that I had an early manifold and wanted it reworked to production specs. They gave me a return authorizaton number and said to ship just the intake back in the seperate box that it was packaged in. I opened the big box for the first time, removed the intake box, and shipped it on 01/16/2008. I'll report on what happens.

I never opened the carb boxes but (to address the previous threads) I will take them over to a buddies carb shop and we'll open the boxes, remove the air horns, and inspect the fuel bowls for debris. That way it's not just my word for it.

RobRob, We received your intake and it should be shipping back out to you today so with any luck you will have it back before the weekend.

[speedshopmike]

ron,
post up who the knobgobbler is who ratted you out so we know who to avoid helping out.
bg tech - c'mon, leaving it your vendors and WD's to do the right thing by the end customer is fully bogus.
people spending the kinda $ your products cost deserve better then that - every customer buying any part deserves better.
if you guys wanna help yourselves long-term, you should be doing everything in your power to net a happy, satisfied customer, not quoting warantee policy (which is below industry standard anyhow) and leaving folks holding the bag for your poor QC.
ie, stand behind your products!
ever heard of good faith?

[fastgto]

Hmmm, the B.G. Tech is on here responding to complaints, that is a hell of alot more than some outfits are doing. I give them lot`s of credit for doing so. It appears that they are trying to make things right. You can never please anybody 100% of the time.
I`m dam sure that Butlers, The Ken`s on either coast, SD, or many of the other standup honest good people have had some difficulty at some time in there dealings with the public. Yes I know it is how you handle the problem which makes a good or bad shop, but at least B.G. Tech is on here in full public view for everyone to see trying to work things out. Kudos to B.G. for at least trying to work out things. Most outfits would not even respond on a public website for the world to see.

[67 Lamnas]

Give 'em kudos if you want, but for me, I won't buy anything by BG for a long time to come....

SD Performance wouldn't let anything out the door with the kinds of defects and lack of quality that BG has had.....that's the difference.....

[fastgto]

Yes, I know that the SD people are fantastic, being Dave`s old partner I am well aware of how honest and what good decent folks they are. My point was B.G. seems to be
trying to work things out on a public forum yet. I`m sorry that things are not working out for you, I to hate it when things don`t arrive and work as they are supposed to.
Please don`t think I was trying to get you mad, as I wasn`t. They did fix the beef I had with them though.

[Tech @ BG]

ron,
post up who the knobgobbler is who ratted you out so we know who to avoid helping out.
bg tech - c'mon, leaving it your vendors and WD's to do the right thing by the end customer is fully bogus.
people spending the kinda $ your products cost deserve better then that - every customer buying any part deserves better.
if you guys wanna help yourselves long-term, you should be doing everything in your power to net a happy, satisfied customer, not quoting warantee policy (which is below industry standard anyhow) and leaving folks holding the bag for your poor QC.
ie, stand behind your products!
ever heard of good faith? We fully stand behind our products and have more than once offered to correct legitimate issues with the same. It also states in our warranty policy that the warranty is through us and we recommend the end user to send the product directly back to us for repair or replacement. We do not offer a money back warranty nor do other carburetor manufacturers. Looking on their websites last night they have the same stated policy as we do in that the part must be returned to them for repair or replacement. I'll again make the point that we are correcting under warranty issues brought forward on here well past the warranty period and to customers other than the original purchaser in some cases.I do not see this as "leaving folks holding the bag" . This is no different than what we do on a regular basis.We are car guys here as well and have our own projects and understand that you may purchase a part and not bolt it on for months. You may also never even take it out of the box to look at and we are more then accomodating in those situations.Each one has to be looked at on an individual basis.

[Tech @ BG]

Hmmm, the B.G. Tech is on here responding to complaints, that is a hell of alot more than some outfits are doing. I give them lot`s of credit for doing so. It appears that they are trying to make things right. You can never please anybody 100% of the time.
I`m dam sure that Butlers, The Ken`s on either coast, SD, or many of the other standup honest good people have had some difficulty at some time in there dealings with the public. Yes I know it is how you handle the problem which makes a good or bad shop, but at least B.G. Tech is on here in full public view for everyone to see trying to work things out. Kudos to B.G. for at least trying to work out things. Most outfits would not even respond on a public website for the world to see.
Thanks for the credit. We do strive to help as many customers as we can and monitoring the forums can sometimes be time consuming as we participate in several hundred. There can be times we dont notice a thread or get to answer a question on a timely basis but we do make an effort to do so like you stated. There are a lot of other manufacturers that are aware of the forums but choose to stay away from them. We are here for the long run and if any of you guys have an issue feel free to pm,call or email us. I know we were not able to satisfy Eric but we also get the opportunity to try and take care of a couple other guys with intake issues that we probably would have never known about.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Give 'em kudos if you want, but for me, I won't buy anything by BG for a long time to come....

SD Performance wouldn't let anything out the door with the kinds of defects and lack of quality that BG has had.....that's the difference.....


Not to take sides or pi$$ anyone off, but I'm seeing a discrepancy in the way people handle issues and not equally. OK, for certain companies but rules change for others?

Curious: Are you gonna do the same with a certain Pontiac vendor that hung certain people out to dry? They let defective products out the door and wouldn't handle issues.

BG is

#1: on the board answering complaints.
#2; working with people and businesses trying to handle issues.
#3: working within the warranty described in company policy.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Yes, I know that the SD people are fantastic, being Dave`s old partner I am well aware of how honest and what good decent folks they are. My point was B.G. seems to be
trying to work things out on a public forum yet. I`m sorry that things are not working out for you, I to hate it when things don`t arrive and work as they are supposed to.
Please don`t think I was trying to get you mad, as I wasn't. They did fix the beef I had with them though.

I agree. It's just more pronounced now-a-days with internet, more people doing their own work, higher population and mass production of higher end parts.
20 years ago we didn't have ALL these options.

People bought Holley carbs for 50 years, bi*tched and moaned about quality and issues, But Holley still makes em and people still buy em.

Hang in there BG tech. It's just the nature of the human race to trash one company when other options are out there, but if it's gender specific, the crowd goes MUTE.

[67 Lamnas]

Not to take sides or pi$$ anyone off, but I'm seeing a discrepancy in the way people handle issues and not equally. OK, for certain companies but rules change for others?

Curious: Are you gonna do the same with a certain Pontiac vendor that hung certain people out to dry? They let defective products out the door and wouldn't handle issues.

BG is

#1: on the board answering complaints.
#2; working with people and businesses trying to handle issues.
#3: working within the warranty described in company policy.

Yep.....I'm gonna do the same, and I didn't change any rules......

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Yep.....I'm gonna do the same, and I didn't change any rules......


I have no issues with people that apply the same rules to all deals that come their way.

[Pontirag]

Isn't the horse dead yet? poke it and see if it moves. This is turning into another butter block drama. Chrome plate it and move on or you both get a time out:)

[gto65lvr]

I have a sorta early idle ez 750 blow through carb never used yet out of warranty by date but never even bolted to an engine but will be in a couple months. How can I be assured it will be good. From what I hear it should be torn down and carefully measured and inspected.

Any chance of a warranty of some sort before it is used. I have read and even from you the carbs from that era or at least less than a year ago and older have had quality issues as well as many on different boards. They have taken them apart fixed issues and used them with success as they expected out of the box. I am building a 15k motor and really dont want to put a 550.00 carb on it only to find out it is needing to be gone through. I have heard alot about clearances and accuracy of some of the work on the metering blocks and what not. I also had a little bad luck with another 750 speed demon I bought and it still sits on the shelf.

[Pontirag]

keep it up and you'll spend recess with your heads on yer desk's. dont make me call home. yer luck you aint in catholic school!

[speedshopmike]

We fully stand behind our products and have more than once offered to correct legitimate issues with the same. It also states in our warranty policy that the warranty is through us and we recommend the end user to send the product directly back to us for repair or replacement. We do not offer a money back warranty nor do other carburetor manufacturers. Looking on their websites last night they have the same stated policy as we do in that the part must be returned to them for repair or replacement. I'll again make the point that we are correcting under warranty issues brought forward on here well past the warranty period and to customers other than the original purchaser in some cases.I do not see this as "leaving folks holding the bag" . This is no different than what we do on a regular basis.We are car guys here as well and have our own projects and understand that you may purchase a part and not bolt it on for months. You may also never even take it out of the box to look at and we are more then accomodating in those situations.Each one has to be looked at on an individual basis.

let's look at a few facts here, not play footsie.
PLEASE READ MY ENTIRE DIATRIBE BEFORE GETTING UPSET OR REACTING:
first, on a personal basis, i'm glad to see you're here and standing up for your company, and communicating with the public, and i've no beef with you, BGT.

here's my reality and how BG policy's afected me as a retailer:
first - holley now offers a lifetime warranty on their avenger line of carbs.
this refutes your mention of like coverage among the big players.

second - i buy carbs thru WD's 99% of the time for convenience - if i have a defective holley or edelbrock carb from a customer guess what i do?
call it in, have a new carb waiting the next day for my customer (so he's happy) and return the bad carb and get credit for it immediately from my WD.(so i'm happy)
i never see it again nor have to worry about it.
holley now actually makes us fill out the warranty tag for returns, which takes 20 seconds.

that said, it's RARE, REAL DAMN RARE, that i get a bad carburetor from them.
and i know full well half of what i get back isn't actually bad but i know a replacement will: 1)shut the customer up and 2)prove his problem is elsewhere (ignition or fuel delivery issues) as i already likely explained to him.

in the case of my personal experience selling the few BG carbs i have, back when i was direct with BG and later with you-know-who as a distributor, i had a significant percentage of defects, and the return process was a contentious nightmare, and BG's attitude was basically that "our poop don't stink".
i got stuck a few times with carbs i waranteed for customers in good faith (hey, there's that word again) and got flat stuck with.
this is why i now absolutely refuse to sell your carbs to anyone, and why i mentioned above about others getting left holding the bag - it happened to me.
not being a summit or jegs-sized speedshop, i really can't afford to eat losses like that, so i've removed the potential for it to occur.
there are several MAJOR, MAJOR lines i no longer carry that had good profit margin due to various reasons; i don't suffer fools well.
you guys don't seem to understand what a damaged reputation's effects will be long term, especially with the instantnet working away.

i'll provide another very recent example of this sort of thing:
a customer ordered a crossflow aluminum radiator for an early A-body car, auto tranny.
the first one came in wrong dimension - customer's fault when measuring, no big deal.
got correct sized unit in, gave to customer.
the manufacturer (it's the big one who's NOT griffin) had done a very poor job assembling it; the trans cooler loop was actually hitting the rad core inside and wasn't properly lined up when the fittings were burned on, so the lines had to go in crooked (ugly, generally amateurish)
we exchanged it for another like unit after calling company and being told "impossible, we never **** up, every piece is checked 'fore it leaves".
ok, send me another, they did, and guess what? - exact same problem.
called them; they said "well, just try and retap the fittings so your lines will go in straight".
well, anyone who's ever tapped anything knows that won't fly, but we did anyway just to shut them up.
of course, it didn't help and we sent it back again for exchange.
customer is getting real pissed by this point as weeks are going by.
they promised to INSPECT and resend a third out right away.
one showed up.
with the exact same condition!
one can look right down the fill hole and see the loop smashed into the core; it's quite obvious to those with eyeballs.
given once bitten twice shy (ok, twice bitten, whatever) i ordered in a griffin unit, paid shipping outta pocket to help appease my customer, and it fit perfectly and everyone walked away happy except me, who had to eat 3 return shipping trips and was made to look bad because of bad product followed by uncaring, unhelpful service from those who caused the problem and repeated the same mistakes.
guess who's radiators i'll never sell again?
guess who's i'll sell every time?

i'd LOVE to see you guys kick major ass, as i'm extremely pro-american in general, and make an effort to sell as much usa-made product as possible and discourage customers away from imported parts when practical to do so, especially chinese stuff as it mostly is subpar still; they're improving all the time, however, so places like you gotta go the extra mile to keep customers happy.
so your 100% made in america concept scores big with me, excepting that the parts aren't turning out as people expect, and service has been, a least in the past, arrogant in nature and poor in quality.
i'm super happy you guys are working towards fixing these issues as claimed and wish you nothing but the best luck and utmost success as things hopefully improve.
my main point is your company and everbody in it should, for the time being, be doing anything even REMOTELY reasonable to yield a happy customer - if it means eating an intake, do it.
give up a new one, melt down the old one and pour more.

now for a thumbs up for BG - i think you guys produce the best rebuild kits on the market - i sell lots of 190003's and -4's, and they're complete, well done, and have nicer parts then holley provides in their kits, like your improved needle/seats, for example.
i've also found your regulators nice.
these are parts i proudly sell currently; point is i'm not anti-BG and this isn't an attack on you or them; it's a plea to make things better.

[Tech @ BG]

I have a sorta early idle ez 750 blow through carb never used yet out of warranty by date but never even bolted to an engine but will be in a couple months. How can I be assured it will be good. From what I hear it should be torn down and carefully measured and inspected.

Any chance of a warranty of some sort before it is used. I have read and even from you the carbs from that era or at least less than a year ago and older have had quality issues as well as many on different boards. They have taken them apart fixed issues and used them with success as they expected out of the box. I am building a 15k motor and really dont want to put a 550.00 carb on it only to find out it is needing to be gone through. I have heard alot about clearances and accuracy of some of the work on the metering blocks and what not. I also had a little bad luck with another 750 speed demon I bought and it still sits on the shelf.If you want to send it back we will be glad to put it on the bench and check it. In regards to some of the earlier issues mentioned , a lot of them never caused any problems but were visual. If a carburetor gasket has small particles of metal on it they are sandwiched between the surfaces and don't go anywhere. Customers would see this and think they were floating throughout the carburetor but if you stop to think about it for a minute there is no fuel in that area as it is sealed so that was done during assembly.That was one of the main issues addressed. If you search any carburetor manufacturer you will find plenty of threads about how bad their products are and rarely hear about the ones who like them,thats just the nature of the internet. We saw a thread on a site the other day entitled "Holley vs Edelbrock vs Demon, which do you like" and knew right away there would be both good and bad posted about everyone. Bottom line is that we are hear and we do listen to what everyone has to say. When issues are brought out on sites such as this we track them and look to see if there is a problem that can be corrected.

[Mr. P-Body]

Mike,

Very well stated. Thanks from all of us that are trying to provide high quality and high performance to our products!

BGT,

While most of us understand your problem, and BTW, I also applaud you for standing up and at least saying SOMETHING (Pop used to say: "Even if it's wrong, do SOMETHING!"), we really need to explain the "Pontiac World" to you. It's simply not big enough for you to spout off warranty info like a lawyer, and point fingers at customers in an open forum. Very bad form... While it may "cover you" in court, it alienates potential customers. If they're looking for a product and hear or read this, they WILL shy away from you, fearing the same kind of treatment.

Most of us (smaller Pontiac "shops") have made our presence by offering good products and standing behind them, even if the customer may be at fault. CVMS (our shop) has been in business for 7 years. In that time, we've had three catestrophic failures. Two Pontiacs and a Chevy BB. We average about 25 engines a year, half of which are Pontiacs. Of those three, only one was refused warranty repairs, as he (the customer) was less than honest with his report on the problems. He also skewed the damage to make it look like he wasn't at fault. Overheating engines are NOT the responsibility of the machine shop, but the customer's. That's what guages are for... Checking ANY "rebuilder's" warranty spells that out clearly. The other two were repaired and the customers were satisfied. We STILL tried to work with him, but he simply wasn't receptive. We move on...

The point? Only the annointed few can get away with shunning certain customers while taking care of others. Based on the past, your company has some serious damage control to do if you're to "survive" in the Pontiac market. We also understand the Pontiac is NOT your focus, but we spend money, too! I suggest you take a little more cooperative attitude, even if you perceive yourself to be "right". Don't "take it in the shorts", but don't deny claims based on such obvious issues as debris inside the carb. Regardless of how long or "why", it's NOT the customer's problem OR responsibility. While big corporations can get away with it, not here!

PAX

Jim

[67 Lamnas]

Pontirag??? Insert here....

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Only the annointed few can get away with shunning certain customers while taking care of others.

Jim


Ain't that amazing. ;) ;)

Seems to be a Double Standard ????? in the Pontiac Kingdom.

[Tech @ BG]

let's look at a few facts here, not play footsie.
PLEASE READ MY ENTIRE DIATRIBE BEFORE GETTING UPSET OR REACTING:
first, on a personal basis, i'm glad to see you're here and standing up for your company, and communicating with the public, and i've no beef with you, BGT.

here's my reality and how BG policy's afected me as a retailer:
first - holley now offers a lifetime warranty on their avenger line of carbs.
this refutes your mention of like coverage among the big players.

second - i buy carbs thru WD's 99% of the time for convenience - if i have a defective holley or edelbrock carb from a customer guess what i do?
call it in, have a new carb waiting the next day for my customer (so he's happy) and return the bad carb and get credit for it immediately from my WD.(so i'm happy)
i never see it again nor have to worry about it.
holley now actually makes us fill out the warranty tag for returns, which takes 20 seconds.

that said, it's RARE, REAL DAMN RARE, that i get a bad carburetor from them.
and i know full well half of what i get back isn't actually bad but i know a replacement will: 1)shut the customer up and 2)prove his problem is elsewhere (ignition or fuel delivery issues) as i already likely explained to him.

in the case of my personal experience selling the few BG carbs i have, back when i was direct with BG and later with you-know-who as a distributor, i had a significant percentage of defects, and the return process was a contentious nightmare, and BG's attitude was basically that "our poop don't stink".
i got stuck a few times with carbs i waranteed for customers in good faith (hey, there's that word again) and got flat stuck with.
this is why i now absolutely refuse to sell your carbs to anyone, and why i mentioned above about others getting left holding the bag - it happened to me.
not being a summit or jegs-sized speedshop, i really can't afford to eat losses like that, so i've removed the potential for it to occur.
there are several MAJOR, MAJOR lines i no longer carry that had good profit margin due to various reasons; i don't suffer fools well.
you guys don't seem to understand what a damaged reputation's effects will be long term, especially with the instantnet working away.

i'll provide another very recent example of this sort of thing:
a customer ordered a crossflow aluminum radiator for an early A-body car, auto tranny.
the first one came in wrong dimension - customer's fault when measuring, no big deal.
got correct sized unit in, gave to customer.
the manufacturer (it's the big one who's NOT griffin) had done a very poor job assembling it; the trans cooler loop was actually hitting the rad core inside and wasn't properly lined up when the fittings were burned on, so the lines had to go in crooked (ugly, generally amateurish)
we exchanged it for another like unit after calling company and being told "impossible, we never **** up, every piece is checked 'fore it leaves".
ok, send me another, they did, and guess what? - exact same problem.
called them; they said "well, just try and retap the fittings so your lines will go in straight".
well, anyone who's ever tapped anything knows that won't fly, but we did anyway just to shut them up.
of course, it didn't help and we sent it back again for exchange.
customer is getting real pissed by this point as weeks are going by.
they promised to INSPECT and resend a third out right away.
one showed up.
with the exact same condition!
one can look right down the fill hole and see the loop smashed into the core; it's quite obvious to those with eyeballs.
given once bitten twice shy (ok, twice bitten, whatever) i ordered in a griffin unit, paid shipping outta pocket to help appease my customer, and it fit perfectly and everyone walked away happy except me, who had to eat 3 return shipping trips and was made to look bad because of bad product followed by uncaring, unhelpful service from those who caused the problem and repeated the same mistakes.
guess who's radiators i'll never sell again?
guess who's i'll sell every time?

i'd LOVE to see you guys kick major ass, as i'm extremely pro-american in general, and make an effort to sell as much usa-made product as possible and discourage customers away from imported parts when practical to do so, especially chinese stuff as it mostly is subpar still; they're improving all the time, however, so places like you gotta go the extra mile to keep customers happy.
so your 100% made in america concept scores big with me, excepting that the parts aren't turning out as people expect, and service has been, a least in the past, arrogant in nature and poor in quality.
i'm super happy you guys are working towards fixing these issues as claimed and wish you nothing but the best luck and utmost success as things hopefully improve.
my main point is your company and everbody in it should, for the time being, be doing anything even REMOTELY reasonable to yield a happy customer - if it means eating an intake, do it.
give up a new one, melt down the old one and pour more.

now for a thumbs up for BG - i think you guys produce the best rebuild kits on the market - i sell lots of 190003's and -4's, and they're complete, well done, and have nicer parts then holley provides in their kits, like your improved needle/seats, for example.
i've also found your regulators nice.
these are parts i proudly sell currently; point is i'm not anti-BG and this isn't an attack on you or them; it's a plea to make things better.
Not upset and I did read over it several times.I'm going to post a reply but wont continue to argue this as you are trying to tie together the relationship and workings of the dealer to the wd as the relationship of the end user to the manufacturer. We are a small company about 1/10 th the size of Holley or Edelbrock and when zinc went to 2.50 a pound we continued at our financial peril [ we lost our butts] to buy U.S. certified zinc when our competitors did not. We cannot afford the Wal-mart type mentality and policies because we do not have the business base to afford such. As a reminder here are a couple of links relating to the offshore zinc problems. Returning parts for credit knowing there are no problems in affect raises the price to the end user and costs everyone more money to enjoy their cars.We receive every Jegs carburetor return and the percentage of these to the percentage they purchase is less than 2%. In regards to the "just melt it" comment, there is more than just material costs involved such as machine time and labor and once again this would be a non-warranty item that the other end users would end up absorbing the cost on. As usual, we are on here to help those that need us to.

http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/recalls_detail.aspx?id=070045T

http://www.holley.com/HolleyNews/Volvo%20Penta%20Carburetor%20Recall.asp

[Tech @ BG]

Mike,

Very well stated. Thanks from all of us that are trying to provide high quality and high performance to our products!

BGT,

While most of us understand your problem, and BTW, I also applaud you for standing up and at least saying SOMETHING (Pop used to say: "Even if it's wrong, do SOMETHING!"), we really need to explain the "Pontiac World" to you. It's simply not big enough for you to spout off warranty info like a lawyer, and point fingers at customers in an open forum. Very bad form... While it may "cover you" in court, it alienates potential customers. If they're looking for a product and hear or read this, they WILL shy away from you, fearing the same kind of treatment.

Most of us (smaller Pontiac "shops") have made our presence by offering good products and standing behind them, even if the customer may be at fault. CVMS (our shop) has been in business for 7 years. In that time, we've had three catestrophic failures. Two Pontiacs and a Chevy BB. We average about 25 engines a year, half of which are Pontiacs. Of those three, only one was refused warranty repairs, as he (the customer) was less than honest with his report on the problems. He also skewed the damage to make it look like he wasn't at fault. Overheating engines are NOT the responsibility of the machine shop, but the customer's. That's what guages are for... Checking ANY "rebuilder's" warranty spells that out clearly. The other two were repaired and the customers were satisfied. We STILL tried to work with him, but he simply wasn't receptive. We move on...

The point? Only the annointed few can get away with shunning certain customers while taking care of others. Based on the past, your company has some serious damage control to do if you're to "survive" in the Pontiac market. We also understand the Pontiac is NOT your focus, but we spend money, too! I suggest you take a little more cooperative attitude, even if you perceive yourself to be "right". Don't "take it in the shorts", but don't deny claims based on such obvious issues as debris inside the carb. Regardless of how long or "why", it's NOT the customer's problem OR responsibility. While big corporations can get away with it, not here!

PAX

JimJim,
I think the point being missed here as well as everyone else taking the "deny" or "refuse" claims avenue is that we have not refused nor denied. We did indeed TRY to work with Eric on his manifold but after He ground all over the surface would only have been happy with a new one. We did bring it back and re-machine some of the areas he had ground on. We also tried to help the appearence at no cost to him .Our situation with him seems no different to me than the one you described with your customer so why are we any different?The customer who claimed debris wanted a cash refund, he did not want warranty. As I have stated over and over we are more than happy to look at any warranty concern a customer has and if it is a defect we will make the decison as to whether to repair or replace it. I keep restating, we even give customers who are not even the original purchaser this same benefit. Try that with some of the others and see where it gets you.We openly admit there are issues but we try to give the customer the best quality product as well.

[Tech @ BG]

Posted earlier this morning....

"Quote:
Originally Posted by gto65lvr
I have a sorta early idle ez 750 blow through carb never used yet out of warranty by date but never even bolted to an engine but will be in a couple months. How can I be assured it will be good. From what I hear it should be torn down and carefully measured and inspected.

Any chance of a warranty of some sort before it is used. I have read and even from you the carbs from that era or at least less than a year ago and older have had quality issues as well as many on different boards. They have taken them apart fixed issues and used them with success as they expected out of the box. I am building a 15k motor and really dont want to put a 550.00 carb on it only to find out it is needing to be gone through. I have heard alot about clearances and accuracy of some of the work on the metering blocks and what not. I also had a little bad luck with another 750 speed demon I bought and it still sits on the shelf. "


our reply earlier....
"If you want to send it back we will be glad to put it on the bench and check it."

[Tech @ BG]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAJ7395
All, I called BG tech support and explained that I had an early manifold and wanted it reworked to production specs. They gave me a return authorizaton number and said to ship just the intake back in the seperate box that it was packaged in. I opened the big box for the first time, removed the intake box, and shipped it on 01/16/2008. I'll report on what happens.

I never opened the carb boxes but (to address the previous threads) I will take them over to a buddies carb shop and we'll open the boxes, remove the air horns, and inspect the fuel bowls for debris. That way it's not just my word for it.

Rob

Rob, We received your intake and it should be shipping back out to you today so with any luck you will have it back before the weekend.
__________________
Thank you,

Technical Support

Barry Grant, Inc.

BG Fuel System, Demon Carburetors, Nitrous Works, Rush Filters

www.barrygrant.com

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Different issue but........... how many people have sent back their Victor or Performer intake to Edelbrock for a refund or have them cut it .120 or so because it didn't fit?
I don't think anyone.

But people are still buying Edelbrock products.

[Mr_GTO]

Different issue but........... how many people have sent back their Victor or Performer intake to Edelbrock for a refund or have them cut it .120 or so because it didn't fit?
I don't think anyone.

But people are still buying Edelbrock products.



Not just that but how about testing each piece that goes out the door to make sure it doesn't have to be returned. I can't imagine that BG sells enough Pontiac 6Shooters(At $2500 a pop) to say that they can't check and test each and every one.

[eric65]

We did indeed TRY to work with Eric on his manifold but after He ground all over the surface would only have been happy with a new one. We did bring it back and re-machine some of the areas he had ground on. We also tried to help the appearence at no cost to him



Until my dying breath will state that the BG TEch (believe it was a Steve) in a "not so friendly tone" (dont know how to explain his helpfullness or lack thereof) told me I could grind it down or send it back for them too. Period!!!!! If BG TEch Steve tells me on the phone in no case should you attemp this I would have not. Remember this was before I took off grinding all over it!!! Being a bit hard-headded about already having it back there once I though what the heck maybe like he says I can do it without the hassle of the return. He definetly was not accomidating about me sending it back again in our phone conversation.

I did grind too far then after trying myself in an attemp to even the finish.

Another point; It is not that my manifold in now un-useable.. It is certainally useable and will flow like a new one, I just have to work my arse off to get it to look uniform and consistent in finish aspect! Which I just didnt think would take this amount of work when I first tried it at BG Tech Steve's response... So yes I am frustrated...this was an expensive deal. But is not completely broke. I just wanted it to look like a new one. It will still look good I believe when I'm done polishing it.

This kind of goes on and on and its good of Tech BG to answer all here and commend him for that, but I dont want the point lost that in my case only, I did contact them before I did my screw-up and did get that answer to 'What do I do now as this don't fit'... Peroid

I just dont want that part of this to get lost in the thread of what Eric did to his manifold..

Thanks all
Eric

[Tech @ BG]

Not just that but how about testing each piece that goes out the door to make sure it doesn't have to be returned. I can't imagine that BG sells enough Pontiac 6Shooters(At $2500 a pop) to say that they can't check and test each and every one.
The only intakes with issues are the early run which were machined by an outside vendor for us to which we supplied an engine and they were supposed to be checking for us. Until the problem was brought to our attention we were not aware of it. Once it came to light, as already mentioned we moved this process in house and have not had fitment issues since.WE are also checking the intakes now to make sure they fit and since moving this in house have not had any machining related fitment complaints.You guys are hashing over and over issues that have already been addressed and corrected and that we have stated in THIS thread have corrected. We have had a couple of calls since stating they dont fit and in both cases it was determined they were trying to use the pre 64 valley pan that doesn't have the slots in the runner area. We also had a guy send one of the old ones back[not from this forum] that he said would not fit and we bolted it directly onto the engine with no problem. Keep in mind that if the heads or intake has been cut the fit would be no different than anybody elses intake.

[Tech @ BG]

Until my dying breath will state that the BG TEch (believe it was a Steve) in a "not so friendly tone" (dont know how to explain his helpfullness or lack thereof) told me I could grind it down or send it back for them too. Period!!!!! If BG TEch Steve tells me on the phone in no case should you attemp this I would have not. Remember this was before I took off grinding all over it!!! Being a bit hard-headded about already having it back there once I though what the heck maybe like he says I can do it without the hassle of the return. He definetly was not accomidating about me sending it back again in our phone conversation.

I did grind too far then after trying myself in an attemp to even the finish.

Another point; It is not that my manifold in now un-useable.. It is certainally useable and will flow like a new one, I just have to work my arse off to get it to look uniform and consistent in finish aspect! Which I just didnt think would take this amount of work when I first tried it at BG Tech Steve's response... So yes I am frustrated...this was an expensive deal. But is not completely broke. I just wanted it to look like a new one. It will still look good I believe when I'm done polishing it.

This kind of goes on and on and its good of Tech BG to answer all here and commend him for that, but I dont want the point lost that in my case only, I did contact them before I did my screw-up and did get that answer to 'What do I do now as this don't fit'... Peroid

I just dont want that part of this to get lost in the thread of what Eric did to his manifold..

Thanks all
EricEric,
We are not discounting the fact you were told you could modify it or we would. That has also been documented in this thread. In my conversations with you on the phone I have never said ,well I dont believe he told you that nor have I posted on here I didn't. I infact gave 2 of my customers in Florida the same option and they elected to do this themselves and were happy with the outcome. There is also another member on this board who modified a couple of their own as well. All of these from the first run.I also do not discount the fact he may not have been the friendliest on the phone and apologize for that but as you know both him and his supervisor are no longer with the company.

[speedshopmike]

BG as a company appears to be moving in a positive diection, and i again applaud them for being 100% american-made.
i think my main point is being overlooked, though.
tech, you mentioned you guys are 10% the size of holley/edelbrock.
point taken.
the converse of that is it's that much more critical to ensure every customer is happy, as there won't be a million more lined up and ready to buy.
i'm aware my comment about melting down and repouring doesnt cover labor costs/machine time.
that's where you guys need to step up and absorb these initial costs to obtain a good reputation for your future success.
it costs money to make money, and doing right, in full, by customers is the ONLY way to succeed in a small business, automotive or otherwise.
happy customers spend more money.
more money earned gives the means to bring new product to market and to properly service those FEW with problems so they walk away happy.
you guys get good press from the magazines and tv shows and have interesting and unique components available with potential for great success, but the follow-through is still critical in the end.
i'm not trying to rehash and come down on you - am trying to stress customer satisfaction is all that matters in the big picture.

i again note i personally wish BG continues improving and does well; it's good for everyone to have more choices and the opportunity to buy American.

[Rugratman]

They just don't seem to get it.......

O.K. from a business perspective......
In my instance, what would it have cost you to refund my money if I sent back the carb? Never run, or started.
$0.00 as I would have had to pay shipping, and you would have the carb back, and since minor shaving and sand are no big deal according you guy's...less the labor to put it on a truck and box it the first time..... But under a repair, you would need to rebox it and reship it, so it's a wash. Not to mention BG's cost of the repair.

Now how much business have you lost with this thread? And my explanation to everyone who asks me about a Demon? Times the amount people who have the same story.........$
I wanted to send it back, because of poor workmanship. Period. Sand and shavings still in the bowl, mean it was never inspected, tested, etc.....Remember it's supposed to be good out of the box, right?
This is the last time, I rehash this here. You lost a customer for life. Add that into the bottom line equation.
If I had order the wrong carb, or dropped it, completely different story.
The business world has gotten much smaller with the web, word travels fast.

[Pontirag]

Oh alright....

here goes....

Mr P-Body, Sir,

I disagree with your statement " Only the annointed can get away with shunning customers" After all. Look what happend to Jesus.

[RAJ7395]

UPDATE: Got my 6 shooter intake back from BG today.

I sent it 01/16/2008 and got it back the 01/30/2008. I think that is a very reasonable turn around time in my book. Additionally, the BG Tech service person that I spoke to was professional and BG paid for shipping both ways. (Thumbs Up)

I inspected the rework done to the manifold and as expected it now has spot facing around all the manifold to bolt heads. (Thumbs up)

I inspected the threaded carb bolt holes and found one curly piece of metal in the front carb stud hole that is on forward most and left hand side. Picked it out of the hole with a pair of tweezers and the threads were fine. (Not a big deal)

I also noticed a piece of thread like material lodged in the rear carb stud hole on the front left hand side. I carefully picked out all the loose debris with the same tweezeres and ended up with a little pile of shavings. once the shavings where removed it appears that most of the threads are missing from one side of the tapped hole. For aluminium, you need at least 2 times the thread diameter to make a good bolted joint and I would say that there's only about 1/4" of threads left at the bottom of the hole.

Tech BG - what's the next step?

[RAJ7395]

The rest

[Tech @ BG]

UPDATE: Got my 6 shooter intake back from BG today.

I sent it 01/16/2008 and got it back the 01/30/2008. I think that is a very reasonable turn around time in my book. Additionally, the BG Tech service person that I spoke to was professional and BG paid for shipping both ways. (Thumbs Up)

I inspected the rework done to the manifold and as expected it now has spot facing around all the manifold to bolt heads. (Thumbs up)

I inspected the threaded carb bolt holes and found one curly piece of metal in the front carb stud hole that is on forward most and left hand side. Picked it out of the hole with a pair of tweezers and the threads were fine. (Not a big deal)

I also noticed a piece of thread like material lodged in the rear carb stud hole on the front left hand side. I carefully picked out all the loose debris with the same tweezeres and ended up with a little pile of shavings. once the shavings where removed it appears that most of the threads are missing from one side of the tapped hole. For aluminium, you need at least 2 times the thread diameter to make a good bolted joint and I would say that there's only about 1/4" of threads left at the bottom of the hole.

Tech BG - what's the next step?No excuses on our end and apparently that hole missed inspection. Looks like the cnc must have gaulded in it. You have a pm and we will replace that intake.We appreciate your patience through this.

[speedshopmike]

rugrat, i'll adress your question and take a gamble it's the correct answer:
for BG to refund your money will cost them extra.
why? - they didnt sell it to you, a retailer did.
that retailer bought it for, say, 25% less then you paid for it.
so BG'd be taking a hit on someone else's profit margin, which really isnt fair to them.
however, your retailer could/should refund your money on a new return, whcih will then go back to BG and they'll credit the retailer.
said retailer will be pissed and give BG a tongue-lashing (like i've done here many times)
assuming you bought it from summit/jegs, who are the biggest retailers of most all speed parts, they'll eventually be able (in a perfect world) to apply enough influence on BG as a manufacturer to improve their QC or they'll stop selling BG parts (as i have) will result in BG ultimately failing as a business if it continues.
as BGtech noted, pretty much no manufacturers offer a money-back guarantee.

that all said, i agree with you that in this case, this company doesn't seem to have the managerial vision to see how harmful this bad publicity is to them in the big picture.
they appear to not realize this newfangled interweb forum thing will be freely visible to anyone who looks, forever (or until al gore uninvents the web)

my advice for you specifically is contact the place you bought it from and try and return it, even if only for store credit against other purchases.

[Rugratman]

But, wouldn't Summit/Jeg's/Small local retailer be out the profit...Not BG? They got the product back.

I thought Summit quit selling BG carbs anyway, maybe this is the reason why, Just like you did.
Maybe BG tech should switch over to the inspections dept. They obviously need alot of help there.....he seems pretty smart, and probably doesn't need this grief.
I feel for RAJ.....it alot of money, so even with a defective REPAIRED product, is still not entitled to a full refund now? Who know's if the next intake will be right either. I would have bet they would have walked his intake thru with great care after this thread.

Imagine this is a week before the Pontiac Nationals, He would be up a creek right now.
I said it a few pages back.
All talk........ you guy's should have seen my carb when I got it, I wish I had taken pictures of it.
Good Luck Guy's.

[speedshopmike]

if you bought from a retailer and got $ back from BG they'd be taking it on the chin which is why they dont do that.
return it to your retailer and everyboy walks fair and square.
retailer eats the profit but doesn't lose actual money, BG eats the carb but not any $ except for the carb's cost to them.
given they'll presumably repair and resell it's fair to all.

how have you been?
i moved the shop about 6 months ago up to the front of the mall next to chicken basket; drop by and say hi if you're around.
-mike

[Tech @ BG]

But, wouldn't Summit/Jeg's/Small local retailer be out the profit...Not BG? They got the product back.

I thought Summit quit selling BG carbs anyway, maybe this is the reason why, Just like you did.
Maybe BG tech should switch over to the inspections dept. They obviously need alot of help there.....he seems pretty smart, and probably doesn't need this grief.
I feel for RAJ.....it alot of money, so even with a defective REPAIRED product, is still not entitled to a full refund now? Who know's if the next intake will be right either. I would have bet they would have walked his intake thru with great care after this thread.

Imagine this is a week before the Pontiac Nationals, He would be up a creek right now.
I said it a few pages back.
All talk........ you guy's should have seen my carb when I got it, I wish I had taken pictures of it.
Good Luck Guy's.Barry Grant Inc. closed Summit's account due to their overly liberal return policy that resulted in their returns being 10 times the national average of our other 440 distributors including the other large stores. Continuation of this would have caused Barry Grant Inc. to have to raise the prices to everyone else. In regards to RAJ hopefully we have him fixed up and I spoke with him earlier today and advised him we sent a replacement out next day air so he will have it tomorrow. This is a new intake,not a repaired one so this will get him back to new.

[Region Warrior]

I'd make it my quest to find this person and break all his/fingers and thumbs...for starters.
People have been killed for stuff like that.

:mad:

Sad to say i've heard NOTHING good about B.G. customer service in last 5 yrs.
I've had a couple new carbs, and had to go through'm.
Clean'm and fix minor stuff.
But worked good afterwards.
Have one now that is giving me prob's.

Have to eat my words.
BG Tech contacted me and took the time to make sure i had everything set correctly in the carb i was having issues with.
We conversed back and forth several times over a week or two cause i couldnt work on carb every night.
Believe problem is solved.
Find out for sure this summer when romp'n round town.

Thanks BG tech.

:thumbup:

[Tech @ BG]

Have to eat my words.
BG Tech contacted me and took the time to make sure i had everything set correctly in the carb i was having issues with.
We conversed back and forth several times over a week or two cause i couldnt work on carb every night.
Believe problem is solved.
Find out for sure this summer when romp'n round town.

Thanks BG tech.

:thumbup:Thanks Region Warrior,
Let us know how it works out and if you need anything else we'll be here.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

i'll provide another very recent example of this sort of thing:
a customer ordered a crossflow aluminum radiator for an early A-body car, auto tranny.
the first one came in wrong dimension - customer's fault when measuring, no big deal.
got correct sized unit in, gave to customer.
the manufacturer (it's the big one who's NOT griffin) had done a very poor job assembling it; the trans cooler loop was actually hitting the rad core inside and wasn't properly lined up when the fittings were burned on, so the lines had to go in crooked (ugly, generally amateurish)
we exchanged it for another like unit after calling company and being told "impossible, we never **** up, every piece is checked 'fore it leaves".
ok, send me another, they did, and guess what? - exact same problem.
called them; they said "well, just try and retap the fittings so your lines will go in straight".
well, anyone who's ever tapped anything knows that won't fly, but we did anyway just to shut them up.
of course, it didn't help and we sent it back again for exchange.
customer is getting real pissed by this point as weeks are going by.
they promised to INSPECT and resend a third out right away.
one showed up.
with the exact same condition!
one can look right down the fill hole and see the loop smashed into the core; it's quite obvious to those with eyeballs.
given once bitten twice shy (ok, twice bitten, whatever) i ordered in a griffin unit, paid shipping outta pocket to help appease my customer, and it fit perfectly and everyone walked away happy except me, who had to eat 3 return shipping trips and was made to look bad because of bad product followed by uncaring, unhelpful service from those who caused the problem and repeated the same mistakes.
guess who's radiators i'll never sell again?
guess who's i'll sell every time?


now for a thumbs up for BG - i think you guys produce the best rebuild kits on the market - i sell lots of 190003's and -4's, and they're complete, well done, and have nicer parts then holley provides in their kits, like your improved needle/seats, for example.
i've also found your regulators nice.
these are parts i proudly sell currently; point is i'm not anti-BG and this isn't an attack on you or them; it's a plea to make things better.



MIke. If you quit handling everyones product you had issues with............. you would be sitting home alone wondering what to do for an income. LOL. :D
Especially Pontiac products. Made here and abroad. :)

Been in this business for over 35 years and it seems to be getting worse, not better? Foreign low cost investment maybe without quality control at it's best. Years ago people took pride in their work. Now it's a paycheck on the lower end of the pay scale. Put the time in with the minimal effort.

[RAJ7395]

UPDATE:

I called up BG Tech yesterday and talked to Adam. As usual, he was very cordial and professional on the phone and we chatted about the 6 Shooters performance for a while. He was open and honest, appologized for the stripped threads and indicated that he'd already sent out a replacement UPS red after seeing my post.

When I got home tonight there was a new intake on the porch.

Opened the box, inspected the intake and it's perfect.

I would like to thank BG TECH for proactively addressing and correcting the situation in a timely fashion and without cost to me!! How a company handles issues like these directly reflects their character and culture. In this case, my experience indicates that BG does care about the customer and they are willing to make it right given the chance.

Rob

[Tom Vaught]

I also spoke with Adam at Barry Grant and received my replacement 6 Shooter Intake Manifold. I have not tried to mount carbs on it yet or mount it on my 455 engine in the GTO BUT overall it appears the intake was completely redesigned with proper clearance around the bolts. The area around the bolt holes is spot faced for small headed fasteners OR you can use washers and regular manifold bolts. The port alignment looks much better by "eyeball" but I will check it with a factory gasket.

I will post more once I do these checks BUT overall the Barry Grant Company stepped up big time to try and do the right thing.

Tom Vaught

[YVEYANT]

I would be very curious to know what Cliff R has to say about these carbs objectively. He has tested more carbs than anyone I personally know of. When I was in the market for a carb recently, the word around this forum, as well as from phone techs from Jegs and Summit was if you buy a BG carb you will need to keep a screwdriver in your back pocket as they constantly need to be adjusted. I heard that saying a bunch of times and naturally stood away from them.
I have painfully read through every post in this six page thread to judge fairly, lol.
I have to say it seems to be fact that BG does not have the means to ensure their products are superior when leaving their doors as many of their products come from (and came from) outside machine shops to begin with. I am sure they do not have quality control inspectors working full time at these outside vendor businesses.
Whether Eric grinded down 85% of this manifold or not, had the option to send it back or not, does not excuse sending out an inferior product and that was clearly what it was inferior and for $2500. Policy or not, grinding or not, he should have been and still should be entitled to a new intake, period!
I do commend the tech at BG for being here and for him trying his best to save his company and his own job by mending the many company mishaps. I am sure he knows bad news travels fast and first. However, if there were not so many problems with the products and the company did not have to constantly explain themselves than the tech would not be here or have any need to be here.
When a consumer pays top dollar they should receive a superior product.
Even if replaced and all is fine, the confidence in the product and the company is tarnished.
Speedshopmike, I give you a big thumbs up for stepping up and giving a fair shake on this situation, you made it clear you are not kissing up to this company...
$2500 is a lot of money. Even with many of these problems corrected for others, I still can't help but feel Eric should receive a new manifold. BG has inconvienced him enough to say the least, to ask him to pay more money to fix their own problem is not a solution by any means. That would be a one sided solution. The product was clearly defective, if it was not Eric would have bolted it on and went about his business.
Just by him telling one person of his experience could cost BG much more in the long run by losing future business than by simply replacing the manifold. The damage he can do to BG just by attending car shows and posting here for 27,000 members to see can cost the company many times over. Speedshopmike mentioned BG should make it their business to make their customers a priority and if it takes replacing a manifold so be it. That statement is right on, especially since they are much smaller than Edelbrock & Holley and he is absolutley right, they should.
With this said, I will not even consider a BG product and will send this thread to all who are interested in a BG product for them to judge for themsleves with an update if any on what happened. One person who will stand out for sure is Eric, that will be the lasting impression and a direct reflection on BG.
Give the man what he paid for and fix this!

[RAJ7395]

Personally, I feel that BG owes Eric65 a new 6-shooter intake manifold or his money back and a big big appology.

I had to run around and waste my time taking intakes to UPS for shipment, taking pictures to show issues, calling folks on the phone, waiting for parts, etc and felt that BG should have at least given me a coupon or something for my effort.

As for myself and after receiving a correct intake, I sold the BG 6-shooter for less that half of what I paid for it. Hated to do it but I'm not risking my life by running this questionable BG unit. Potential sand or metal in the carb, linkage that binds up and holds the butterflies open (mine did bind up big time!!), etc.... just not worth it.

PS. I had plans to buy an 825 CFM Mighty Demon for my BBC but thanks to the issues highlighted in this post I'll save my money and spend it elsewhere.

Rob

[440GP69]

HAVE THE ISSUES WITH THIS INTAKE BEEN FIXED BY NOW?????? its still the coolest tripower setup available and if problems are fixed i would consider buying one, i want to hear if the extra steps have been taken to ensure that its a quality product worth it's 2600$ price tag

[Tech @ BG]

HAVE THE ISSUES WITH THIS INTAKE BEEN FIXED BY NOW?????? its still the coolest tripower setup available and if problems are fixed i would consider buying one, i want to hear if the extra steps have been taken to ensure that its a quality product worth it's 2600$ price tag The intakes were updated quite awhile ago and as far as some of the other "issues" guys are claiming to have we are not seeing them. The last poster who claimed to have linkage binding simply is not happening as we have over 1000 of them out there with the same type linkage and this is the first we have heard. I have the Ford version on my own car and no binding with it and we have had several others on company cars as well out on the power tour in years past.

[Tech @ BG]

Personally, I feel that BG owes Eric65 a new 6-shooter intake manifold or his money back and a big big appology.

I had to run around and waste my time taking intakes to UPS for shipment, taking pictures to show issues, calling folks on the phone, waiting for parts, etc and felt that BG should have at least given me a coupon or something for my effort.

As for myself and after receiving a correct intake, I sold the BG 6-shooter for less that half of what I paid for it. Hated to do it but I'm not risking my life by running this questionable BG unit. Potential sand or metal in the carb, linkage that binds up and holds the butterflies open (mine did bind up big time!!), etc.... just not worth it.

PS. I had plans to buy an 825 CFM Mighty Demon for my BBC but thanks to the issues highlighted in this post I'll save my money and spend it elsewhere.

RobIt's funny how some people change their tune after they get what they want. I think it is well documented what we did for you on here and what we didn't post was how much trouble we had to go through to get the old intake back from you even when you were shipping the parts to us from your work and us paying for it. I wont post the pm's that surrounding the above statements because that wouldn't be right. Let's discuss the photos since you brought that up... you told me by phone that "I didn't want to post them but my buddy said I should" we never asked for them nor questioned either intake and stepped up and took care of it for you. We even sent you a replacement next day air before we had the other one back. In regards to " sand or metal" that is not even a valid complaint as there has not been the first complaint of sand in anything and the issue with the shavings was taken care of well before the Six Shooters were released and we have not had the first legitimate complaint of metal found in them so lets try abd be truthful in what is posted as WE have been from the start. We are just here to help but I suppose there will always be those who no matter what you do just cant be. With that said we are not on here to argue back and forth and if anyone has a legitimate issue with our product we will be glad to try and assist.

[Tech @ BG]

UPDATE:

I called up BG Tech yesterday and talked to Adam. As usual, he was very cordial and professional on the phone and we chatted about the 6 Shooters performance for a while. He was open and honest, appologized for the stripped threads and indicated that he'd already sent out a replacement UPS red after seeing my post.

When I got home tonight there was a new intake on the porch.

Opened the box, inspected the intake and it's perfect.

I would like to thank BG TECH for proactively addressing and correcting the situation in a timely fashion and without cost to me!! How a company handles issues like these directly reflects their character and culture. In this case, my experience indicates that BG does care about the customer and they are willing to make it right given the chance.

RobJust wanted to quote this as the last post by you seems to be the complete opposite. You allege having issues after installing this and had my direct line yet never called?

[RAJ7395]

Adam- A word of advise, stick to the facts and try your best to keep your emotions out if it. You're acting on behalf of a company and you need to take the high road.

Allow me to clarify the linkage binding issue that I uncovered while assembling my BG 6 Shooter. The center carb has a piece of linkage that runs from the center throttle cable bracket to the front carb throttle arm. This linkage has a slider mechanism built into the front carb end. Once the center carb opens up to a specified distance the slider bottoms out and pulls open the front carb (which is connected to the rear carb via a seperate piece of linkage). What happened on my setup was that everything appeared to move smoothly during the opening phase but while returning the center throttle bracket back to the closed position, the slider mechanism hung up and prevented the center carb from being able to return to the closed position. The setup did this almost everytime I actuated the linkage. I studied the issue and it appears to me that it is caused by a tolerance stackup in the slider joint. Either the brass spacer is too long which caused the slider to be preloaded against the spacer causing friction or the stud is too short which causes the same thing. To correct the issue, I used a piece of emory cloth to remove material from the spacer until the linkage moved freely thru it's entire range of motion.

Adam - I did inform you of this linkage binding issue during one of our phone calls. I am very concerned that it may cause a safety issue with your product and wanted you make sure that you were aware of it. Other than the very rough cutout and multiple burrs left on the air cleaner lid, one very badly machined fuel log bolt, and the incomplete installation instructions (doesn't clearly indicate which hole in the center carb throttle bracket that the slider linkage is supposed to connect to), I did not find any other issues with the unit. Keep in mind that I didn't actually install it on a car or run it.

As for the my above posting, it is first and foremost a plea for you to do the right thing (Eric deserves a new produciton manifold and an appology. If he's still willing to run your stuff then it would be in your best interest to step up and support him) Secondly, the post was intended to update the other interested people on what has happened to me and my BG 6 Shooter.

I didn't change my tune at all. You guys did a good job getting me an intake that was updated and correct and I indicated that in the posts above. Yes, I am displeased that I had to skip lunch at work to send the original intake back, then got another defective one, and had to do the same thing again. With regard to the second intake, Yes, I stuck the second intake on a shelf in the garage and dove into assembling the BG once the good intake got here. I didn't realize that I still had it until you wrote me a message. I thought I sent it back and it turns out I didn't. Honest mistake, my fault and I shipped it within a couple days of your message.

The other posts on here relating to debris (metal chips, sand, whatever you call it) and your admission that those issues had occured caused me to lose confidence in your product. I am being truthfull and I don't recall reading a statment from you confirming that all the chip issues were taken care of before the BG 6 shooters went to production. That information would have been very valueable to me and in my descision not to use the BG 6 shooter. The only information that I had in hand at the time was that the carbs may be contaminated. I'm not going to tear appart three new carbs to check for debris and I'm not going to risk my life by putting a questionable setup on my engine. Therefore, my choice was not to use the unit.

After much time and effort, I sold the unit and was only able to recoupe for about half what it was purchase for.

Rob

[Ron Landis]

Barry Grant Inc. closed Summit's account due to their overly liberal return policy that resulted in their returns being 10 times the national average of our other 440 distributors including the other large stores. Continuation of this would have caused Barry Grant Inc. to have to raise the prices to everyone else. In regards to RAJ hopefully we have him fixed up and I spoke with him earlier today and advised him we sent a replacement out next day air so he will have it tomorrow. This is a new intake,not a repaired one so this will get him back to new.
Those bastards!!!!!!! lol

[johnsma22]

Those bastards!!!!!!! lol

Yeah, no kidding! Those chumps at Summit! What business is it of theirs to take care of their customers! :rolleyes:

[440GP69]

has anyone seen what these can handle power wise? 450hp 550hp 600+??? are any of these on a running car with a serious motor?

[Tech @ BG]

Adam- A word of advise, stick to the facts and try your best to keep your emotions out if it. You're acting on behalf of a company and you need to take the high road.

Allow me to clarify the linkage binding issue that I uncovered while assembling my BG 6 Shooter. The center carb has a piece of linkage that runs from the center throttle cable bracket to the front carb throttle arm. This linkage has a slider mechanism built into the front carb end. Once the center carb opens up to a specified distance the slider bottoms out and pulls open the front carb (which is connected to the rear carb via a seperate piece of linkage). What happened on my setup was that everything appeared to move smoothly during the opening phase but while returning the center throttle bracket back to the closed position, the slider mechanism hung up and prevented the center carb from being able to return to the closed position. The setup did this almost everytime I actuated the linkage. I studied the issue and it appears to me that it is caused by a tolerance stackup in the slider joint. Either the brass spacer is too long which caused the slider to be preloaded against the spacer causing friction or the stud is too short which causes the same thing. To correct the issue, I used a piece of emory cloth to remove material from the spacer until the linkage moved freely thru it's entire range of motion.

Adam - I did inform you of this linkage binding issue during one of our phone calls. I am very concerned that it may cause a safety issue with your product and wanted you make sure that you were aware of it. Other than the very rough cutout and multiple burrs left on the air cleaner lid, one very badly machined fuel log bolt, and the incomplete installation instructions (doesn't clearly indicate which hole in the center carb throttle bracket that the slider linkage is supposed to connect to), I did not find any other issues with the unit. Keep in mind that I didn't actually install it on a car or run it.

As for the my above posting, it is first and foremost a plea for you to do the right thing (Eric deserves a new produciton manifold and an appology. If he's still willing to run your stuff then it would be in your best interest to step up and support him) Secondly, the post was intended to update the other interested people on what has happened to me and my BG 6 Shooter.

I didn't change my tune at all. You guys did a good job getting me an intake that was updated and correct and I indicated that in the posts above. Yes, I am displeased that I had to skip lunch at work to send the original intake back, then got another defective one, and had to do the same thing again. With regard to the second intake, Yes, I stuck the second intake on a shelf in the garage and dove into assembling the BG once the good intake got here. I didn't realize that I still had it until you wrote me a message. I thought I sent it back and it turns out I didn't. Honest mistake, my fault and I shipped it within a couple days of your message.

The other posts on here relating to debris (metal chips, sand, whatever you call it) and your admission that those issues had occured caused me to lose confidence in your product. I am being truthfull and I don't recall reading a statment from you confirming that all the chip issues were taken care of before the BG 6 shooters went to production. That information would have been very valueable to me and in my descision not to use the BG 6 shooter. The only information that I had in hand at the time was that the carbs may be contaminated. I'm not going to tear appart three new carbs to check for debris and I'm not going to risk my life by putting a questionable setup on my engine. Therefore, my choice was not to use the unit.

After much time and effort, I sold the unit and was only able to recoupe for about half what it was purchase for.

Rob
Rob,
I am taking the high road here as I think it is kinda funny how the only problem you had was the intake which we took care of and everything was great until you posted trying to get Eric an intake . You did not have that opinion when we spoke last and even told me that Eric told you that you should give him the second intake we sent instead of sending it back to us. Not too honest on his part in my opinion. Eric will not be getting an intake and you can continue to bash us or whatever but that is the bottom line and that issue has already been hashed out. In regards to the other issues you mentioned you did not tell me of them nor give us the chance to correct any of them . You also had my direct line should you have had any real concerns about anything posted so we will leave it at that. As stated earlier if anyone has a legitimate issue we will be glad to help if possible but there is no call to bash us if you didnt give us the chance to correct it.

[Rugratman]

Now imagine if BG Tech was not on here, and your replacement intake was messed up....again and you had to go thru the regular return channels again....Thru Summit, Jeg's, Mikes, Pdude, etc..:mad:
The only reason you (Rob) got that replacement intake so fast was they had egg on their face, and everyone here knew it.
So that was three for three, with that expensive unit that went thru a detailed inspection process.
We shouldn't rag on BG tech though, he is a company employee, towing the company line.
Yea, Summit took another step up in my book.
Sorry for you Eric, and Rob. That's alot of money to lose.

[RAJ7395]

Adam - To be perfectly clear.

I did inform you of the linkage binding issue on your direct line. You responded by saying that it was the first time that you'd ever heard of it. I went on to inform you about the burrs on the air cleaner base. You said that it was an early production issue and that it had been corrected. I told you about the screwed up machining on the fuel log bolt. You didn't have any explanation. Lastly, I did let you know that the directions as to where to place the linkage on the center throttle arm bracket were confusing.

These are legitimate issues with my Barry Grant 6 Shooter unit and I made you aware of them so that they could be corrected. No malicious intent in trying to help BG make a better product.

Rugratman- Thanks for the comments. I agree. From a business standpoint, negative publicity is bad and as a company you need to step up, do the right thing, and satisfy the customer. In my case Adam/BG did exactly what was expected. When you break this entire thread down to it's core, I think it has nothing to do with the issue of what is right or wrong. We all know that the right thing is for BG to give Eric a new intake just like they did for me. I believe that what's really going on is that in his mind Adam has elevated this issue from a business issue to a personal issue and is using his position and influence to defend his stance on the subject. This, unfortunately, makes him more that just a company employee towing the company line.

Just my observations.

[Tech @ BG]

Adam - To be perfectly clear.

I did inform you of the linkage binding issue on your direct line. You responded by saying that it was the first time that you'd ever heard of it. I went on to inform you about the burrs on the air cleaner base. You said that it was an early production issue and that it had been corrected. I told you about the screwed up machining on the fuel log bolt. You didn't have any explanation. Lastly, I did let you know that the directions as to where to place the linkage on the center throttle arm bracket were confusing.

These are legitimate issues with my Barry Grant 6 Shooter unit and I made you aware of them so that they could be corrected. No malicious intent in trying to help BG make a better product.

Rugratman- Thanks for the comments. I agree. From a business standpoint, negative publicity is bad and as a company you need to step up, do the right thing, and satisfy the customer. In my case Adam/BG did exactly what was expected. When you break this entire thread down to it's core, I think it has nothing to do with the issue of what is right or wrong. We all know that the right thing is for BG to give Eric a new intake just like they did for me. I believe that what's really going on is that in his mind Adam has elevated this issue from a business issue to a personal issue and is using his position and influence to defend his stance on the subject. This, unfortunately, makes him more that just a company employee towing the company line.

Just my observations.Nothing personal on this at all as the decision on the intake came from Barry himself after Eric wrote him a letter demanding one so please don't continue to try and speak or suggest what is going on in my mind. This decision was made before we ever posted in this thread and our position has remained the same unlike yours. You feel this is negative publicity and to a point it may be but a whole lot more positive has come out of it. We have sold several of these systems to guys who didn't know they existed until they read this thread and after reading the thread were confident if they did have a problem we are here to help. We also were able to swap out yours and Tom's intakes as well which is 2 problems we would have never known about as well as a couple of guys having carburetor problems we corrected through pm's . You guys can continue to keep this alive and we will help those we can with legitimate problems as that is what we are here for.



I have stated what you relayed to us and what you didn't and I stand firm on that and I guess we can continue to disagree but I am not here to argue back and forth .If we took care of the intake then why wouldn't we have taken care of the other issues you claim to have had if we were advised of them??? Those who can read between the lines will .

[eric65]

TechBG has posted a few ill-advised comments about me that I really feel I need to clear up. Frankly am getting tired of his mis-statements and want to clear for the members here. This is a long post, sorry I will try and highlight the mistaken parts made by Adam Campbell.


Barry himself after Eric wrote him a letter demanding one

TechBg last post
Response is my actual letter to Barry Grant himself. I really want you to find my demand to Barry for a new manifold

Eric Emmerich
1721 Fort Henry Dr
Fort Wright, KY 41011
859-331-4433 home
513-659-1014 cell

December 27, 2007
Mr. Barry Grant
President/Owner
Barry Grant Incorporated
1450 McDonald Road
Dahlonega, GA 30533

Dear Mr. Grant:

I am in the process of restoring a 1965 Pontiac GTO, and on my engine build I decided to buy a Barry Grant Six Shooter package. This decision made after seeing the article in Car Craft Magazine June 06 about your product line. In May of 2007 I purchased the unit via Rich Desbiens distributor. Initially after receiving the product I was impressed with its look and was very happy. However problems arose when I tried to fit the unit together as the front carburetor did not fit on the manifold. I then contacted Barry Grant (BG) Support, and it took some persistence on my part, but was able to have the manifold sent back to you and after I assume work done I received it back and the carb now fits on the unit. Thanks to Doug Schriefer for this. This all occurred in May thru July of 2007.

Later in the year in September I finally got around to installing the manifold on my rebuilt engine which I had just installed in the GTO resto project. Well much to my dismay I could not get 4 intake bolts in as they hit the intake runners. Again as before I called BG Support and contacted a tech service person named Steve. He said I could grind of some of the excess material myself to accommodate the bolts or send it back again to BG support and they would do the same. He stated this was the way they had been repairing this issue or would. So I thought instead of sending it back again I would try it myself. I did remove the excess material and the bolts now will go in properly. However, and I didn’t think of this at the time, the finish on the manifold is now flawed, or ruined. The brushed or satin type finished look of the cast aluminum intake is now bad in these areas. So now I have an intake that fits but looks like ‘Hell’ in appearance. After this I again called BG Support and complained that the finish was now bad and what could be done. I believe I talked again to Doug Schriefer and Steve about this on different occasions. Eventually I was told to send the manifold back to BG Support and they would see what they could do. I sent it back in early October 2007 and you received it on October 11th 2007. I never heard from anyone there and eventually used a private message on PY Online Forums to a Tech@BG on October 29th 2007 to find what happen. I received a PM back from Tech@BG that the manifold was given over to an Adam Campbell for review. I then contacted Adam and was told by him in November 2007 that a Vice President (name not disclosed to me) had decided that BG will not replace the manifold but would try and work out the finish. Well I didn’t like this decision and told Adam of this but according to him no other rectification would take place for me. I was not at all happy about this as I knew the manifold would not look as it should have and would always look poor. I was at his mercy however so I agreed to have your company do what Adam referred to as “tumble” the manifold in an attempt to rectify the finish. As I say I wasn’t happy as I knew the first run BG Six Shooter manifold had fit problems and had heard thru forum boards that the later castings had the problem resolved. I would have like to have had one of these in trade, but this would not happen for me. Adam told me that this trade would not take place for me and I was getting this one back either not touched by BG Support or tumbled. I agreed to try and tumble unhappily. But felt I had no other option and according to Adam I have none. Adam was not very helpful and could be condescending to me at times.

Well I did not hear from anyone for 2 weeks after these phone conversations and finally called Adam Campbell back in early December 2007. He stated they would send it back to me tumbled. This wasn’t very prompt service as I had to keep calling to remind them to do something or send it back. I did receive back the manifold on December 14th 2007 and as I knew the finish was still poor quality and shiny in some spots and dull in others. The original cast appearance is long gone.

Barry, I am very unhappy with my Six Shooter, after paying over $2500 I would expect something more than this. This manifold I’ve had problems with from the first time I received it and I haven’t even tried to start this car yet. I am assuming that when I do get around to starting and running this car that it performs well. I can assure you it looks poor quality on the manifold end of the product. I still cannot believe you would send out a product that could not have been test fitted like these obviously were not. I cannot believe that, first the carb would not fit on the manifold, and then the manifold bolts would not go in. That the manifold has to be modified by the customer to make fit is deplorable. I admit I should have sent back the manifold a second time, although you should be able to see my frustration about that, instead of removing the excess material myself. I feel your customer service really let me down about advising for me to remove excess material and then about replacing the manifold with one that fits. I believe from the phone conversations I had with BG Support that they would have done the same grinding on the manifold I did in part to make right, resulting in the same finish problems. I really feel ripped off by your company and your Tech Support team which was of no help to me, with their unwillingness to replace this manifold.

Barry, I am one unhappy customer of Barry Grant Products and will absolutely never buy another BG Product. I have posted about this problem on the PY Online Forum community. I have advised others not to buy BG Products particularly the Six Shooter product line. I have a GTO friend named Cap Profit who lives in Kansas City KS who was contemplating buying one of these for his GTO restoration. I have advised him not to, and that your customer support is not very helpful. I will advise others who ask the same. I will use this unit and put it on my car still and do the best I can with the finish, I may paint it or try and sand blast it myself to get some kind of uniform look to it. I will also tell all at the cruise-ins, car shows, and etc I go to that Barry Grant Products are not very good and not to buy them, or at your own risk. I am also going to send a copy of this and an explanation to the Georgia Better Business Bureau in Atlanta GA to lodge a complaint against your company.

Barry, I am sorry about these before mentioned steps I will take, and have, but as the customer who has already paid over $2500 for a product with problems that will not be resolved by your company, I have no other option but to complain. No one likes to loose money and I know it would cost you to send me a proper fitting manifold with proper appearance, but I don’t like to loose as well. In the restoration of these old cars the person doing it has to go out on a limb sometimes with certain new products that promise new or increased performance. So you put out what is big bucks for a guy like me on products hoping you get quality. In my case with your company I don’t feel at all like I got a quality product.


Sincerely



Eric E Emmerich


Ok from reading the actual letter sent to Barry where do you find the DEMAND for a new manifold. Face it Techbg you are trying your best to point to me as the villian in this. I will post it and let the members decide.


Next point your return post to Ron.

even told me that Eric told you that you should give him the second intake we sent instead of sending it back to us. Not too honest on his part in my opinion. Eric will not be getting an intake
By Techbg

I did send Ron a Pm or a couple of them asking about his problem and that if he would consider selling me his old one if he didnt need to send it back.
Ok this dosent sound like I was demanding him to give me his old one. Also I never heard back from Ron to those PM's so I never knew his outcome.

TechBg this post is mainly to you and your way of dealing with customers. You lie twist and make the customer to be the bad guy if they dont agree with you.
Knock it off towards me
Eric

[Tech @ BG]

I would also like to make things a little clearer in regards to the exchanges on both yours and Tom's intakes. The only reason they were exchanged as opposed to being spot faced as Tom mentioned was that I had a fresh pallet of intakes here and it allowed us to give you a quick turn around. Normally when the intakes arrive they would go to our Charlotte location and be machined and then returned to us to ship back to you. This process takes about 10 days to 2 weeks .There is nothing wrong with the first run of intakes other than the bolt fitment issues and there are plenty of customers happily running them. The two intakes sent back will be spot faced and then sent back out with kits. Due to the extensive damage Eric did to his intake it would not be possible to do this which is why the only offer made was to update it.

[eric65]

to members an update on mine

A while back I filed a claim with the Better Business Bureau of Georgia against BG. When you enter a claim you must file what you would do/take to settle the claim. What I offered was to buy a new manifold for $175. This was half the price that TechBG offered me for a replacement ($350 or so). I thought this to be equitable and acceptable for my case. Half my falut half theirs...???? I was turned down by BG and the claim was settled as ruled by the BBB.


As far as the nice post from members here urging BG to replace my manifold. I appreciate your words and assistance. Thank You, however your post will fall on deaf ears as I believe TechBg 'Has it in for me and my case' I have PM'd some as to why. But thank you none the less.


I would think if you have a greif with Barry Grant send Barry a personal letter about the problems you experienced and state what you think to him. I would think that would be very effective in letting Barry know if you have had problems with his products and or support and letters to company Presidents tend to have a effect if they get enough of them. Note the letter to him I posted in the above thread...

To all thinking of buying BG products. I would think the issues with the 6 shooter should be resolved. I assume the intake manifolds now fit, I dont know about 'binding linkage and all'... About their service I would think twice about them. Warning to you>>> If you have a complaint dont take it to Adam Campbell, if you have a differeing opinion from his you will loose with their company.

Good Luck and Take care
Eric

[Tech @ BG]

TechBG has posted a few ill-advised comments about me that I really feel I need to clear up. Frankly am getting tired of his mis-statements and want to clear for the members here. This is a long post, sorry I will try and highlight the mistaken parts made by Adam Campbell.


TechBg last post
Response is my actual letter to Barry Grant himself. I really want you to find my demand to Barry for a new manifold

Eric Emmerich
1721 Fort Henry Dr
Fort Wright, KY 41011
859-331-4433 home
513-659-1014 cell

December 27, 2007
Mr. Barry Grant
President/Owner
Barry Grant Incorporated
1450 McDonald Road
Dahlonega, GA 30533

Dear Mr. Grant:

I am in the process of restoring a 1965 Pontiac GTO, and on my engine build I decided to buy a Barry Grant Six Shooter package. This decision made after seeing the article in Car Craft Magazine June 06 about your product line. In May of 2007 I purchased the unit via Rich Desbiens distributor. Initially after receiving the product I was impressed with its look and was very happy. However problems arose when I tried to fit the unit together as the front carburetor did not fit on the manifold. I then contacted Barry Grant (BG) Support, and it took some persistence on my part, but was able to have the manifold sent back to you and after I assume work done I received it back and the carb now fits on the unit. Thanks to Doug Schriefer for this. This all occurred in May thru July of 2007.

Later in the year in September I finally got around to installing the manifold on my rebuilt engine which I had just installed in the GTO resto project. Well much to my dismay I could not get 4 intake bolts in as they hit the intake runners. Again as before I called BG Support and contacted a tech service person named Steve. He said I could grind of some of the excess material myself to accommodate the bolts or send it back again to BG support and they would do the same. He stated this was the way they had been repairing this issue or would. So I thought instead of sending it back again I would try it myself. I did remove the excess material and the bolts now will go in properly. However, and I didn’t think of this at the time, the finish on the manifold is now flawed, or ruined. The brushed or satin type finished look of the cast aluminum intake is now bad in these areas. So now I have an intake that fits but looks like ‘Hell’ in appearance. After this I again called BG Support and complained that the finish was now bad and what could be done. I believe I talked again to Doug Schriefer and Steve about this on different occasions. Eventually I was told to send the manifold back to BG Support and they would see what they could do. I sent it back in early October 2007 and you received it on October 11th 2007. I never heard from anyone there and eventually used a private message on PY Online Forums to a Tech@BG on October 29th 2007 to find what happen. I received a PM back from Tech@BG that the manifold was given over to an Adam Campbell for review. I then contacted Adam and was told by him in November 2007 that a Vice President (name not disclosed to me) had decided that BG will not replace the manifold but would try and work out the finish. Well I didn’t like this decision and told Adam of this but according to him no other rectification would take place for me. I was not at all happy about this as I knew the manifold would not look as it should have and would always look poor. I was at his mercy however so I agreed to have your company do what Adam referred to as “tumble” the manifold in an attempt to rectify the finish. As I say I wasn’t happy as I knew the first run BG Six Shooter manifold had fit problems and had heard thru forum boards that the later castings had the problem resolved. I would have like to have had one of these in trade, but this would not happen for me. Adam told me that this trade would not take place for me and I was getting this one back either not touched by BG Support or tumbled. I agreed to try and tumble unhappily. But felt I had no other option and according to Adam I have none. Adam was not very helpful and could be condescending to me at times.

Well I did not hear from anyone for 2 weeks after these phone conversations and finally called Adam Campbell back in early December 2007. He stated they would send it back to me tumbled. This wasn’t very prompt service as I had to keep calling to remind them to do something or send it back. I did receive back the manifold on December 14th 2007 and as I knew the finish was still poor quality and shiny in some spots and dull in others. The original cast appearance is long gone.

Barry, I am very unhappy with my Six Shooter, after paying over $2500 I would expect something more than this. This manifold I’ve had problems with from the first time I received it and I haven’t even tried to start this car yet. I am assuming that when I do get around to starting and running this car that it performs well. I can assure you it looks poor quality on the manifold end of the product. I still cannot believe you would send out a product that could not have been test fitted like these obviously were not. I cannot believe that, first the carb would not fit on the manifold, and then the manifold bolts would not go in. That the manifold has to be modified by the customer to make fit is deplorable. I admit I should have sent back the manifold a second time, although you should be able to see my frustration about that, instead of removing the excess material myself. I feel your customer service really let me down about advising for me to remove excess material and then about replacing the manifold with one that fits. I believe from the phone conversations I had with BG Support that they would have done the same grinding on the manifold I did in part to make right, resulting in the same finish problems. I really feel ripped off by your company and your Tech Support team which was of no help to me, with their unwillingness to replace this manifold.

Barry, I am one unhappy customer of Barry Grant Products and will absolutely never buy another BG Product. I have posted about this problem on the PY Online Forum community. I have advised others not to buy BG Products particularly the Six Shooter product line. I have a GTO friend named Cap Profit who lives in Kansas City KS who was contemplating buying one of these for his GTO restoration. I have advised him not to, and that your customer support is not very helpful. I will advise others who ask the same. I will use this unit and put it on my car still and do the best I can with the finish, I may paint it or try and sand blast it myself to get some kind of uniform look to it. I will also tell all at the cruise-ins, car shows, and etc I go to that Barry Grant Products are not very good and not to buy them, or at your own risk. I am also going to send a copy of this and an explanation to the Georgia Better Business Bureau in Atlanta GA to lodge a complaint against your company.

Barry, I am sorry about these before mentioned steps I will take, and have, but as the customer who has already paid over $2500 for a product with problems that will not be resolved by your company, I have no other option but to complain. No one likes to loose money and I know it would cost you to send me a proper fitting manifold with proper appearance, but I don’t like to loose as well. In the restoration of these old cars the person doing it has to go out on a limb sometimes with certain new products that promise new or increased performance. So you put out what is big bucks for a guy like me on products hoping you get quality. In my case with your company I don’t feel at all like I got a quality product.


Sincerely



Eric E Emmerich


Ok from reading the actual letter sent to Barry where do you find the DEMAND for a new manifold. Face it Techbg you are trying your best to point to me as the villian in this. I will post it and let the members decide.


Next point your return post to Ron.


By Techbg

I did send Ron a Pm or a couple of them asking about his problem and that if he would consider selling me his old one if he didnt need to send it back.
Ok this dosent sound like I was demanding him to give me his old one. Also I never heard back from Ron to those PM's so I never knew his outcome.

TechBg this post is mainly to you and your way of dealing with customers. You lie twist and make the customer to be the bad guy if they dont agree with you.
Knock it off towards me
EricEric,
No lying and twisting here , you started the thread and we are merely defending ourselves in it. There were numerous calls between you and I regarding this where you insisted the manifold be changed out.You twisted what you put in the letter to Barry and what you posted and we even called you out for it in the thread. You were offered one at cost and declined . You knew Ron was sending the old one back so don't even try and go there.I am not going to continue arguing with you Eric regarding this . We will continue to defend ourselves though as needed as long as this thread keeps going. We will also continue to help those we can.

[Tech @ BG]

to members an update on mine

A while back I filed a claim with the Better Business Bureau of Georgia against BG. When you enter a claim you must file what you would do/take to settle the claim. What I offered was to buy a new manifold for $175. This was half the price that TechBG offered me for a replacement ($350 or so). I thought this to be equitable and acceptable for my case. Half my falut half theirs...???? I was turned down by BG and the claim was settled as ruled by the BBB.


As far as the nice post from members here urging BG to replace my manifold. I appreciate your words and assistance. Thank You, however your post will fall on deaf ears as I believe TechBg 'Has it in for me and my case' I have PM'd some as to why. But thank you none the less.


I would think if you have a greif with Barry Grant send Barry a personal letter about the problems you experienced and state what you think to him. I would think that would be very effective in letting Barry know if you have had problems with his products and or support and letters to company Presidents tend to have a effect if they get enough of them. Note the letter to him I posted in the above thread...

To all thinking of buying BG products. I would think the issues with the 6 shooter should be resolved. I assume the intake manifolds now fit, I dont know about 'binding linkage and all'... About their service I would think twice about them. Warning to you>>> If you have a complaint dont take it to Adam Campbell, if you have a differeing opinion from his you will loose with their company.

Good Luck and Take care
Eric Eric, now you are really reaching.... The claim to the BBB was not settled,it was closed .To quote the BBB document "Your company has made a good faith effort in an attempt to resolve this issue; therefore we are closing the case at this time" . At some point YOU have to take responsibility for your actions and as mentioned we offered [this was from Barry himself] to sell you an intake at dead cost and not even charge for machining. This was made well after the item went out of warranty . You ask me to knock it off towards you but then want to attack me personally,very mature. I warranty stuff all the time even if my opinion differs from that of the customer and many times warranty items well past the time frame even when we are not required to do so. Each case is looked at individually . In the case of your intake it was reviewed by myself, the company vp and Barry himself and all 3 of us had the same opinion independantly . Our offer still stands in regards to the intake.

[Tech @ BG]

Ron,
We are currently looking at all of our instructions and updating/rewriting them if needed. I have advised my guys to add a section/drawing showing the 3 arms from the side and notations showing exactly where they go so hopefully this will help eliminate this issue in the future.

[RAJ7395]

Excellent! I'm sure that will help avoid the confusion that I had with where they go.

I'd also have them take a look at the tolerance stack up on that front slider mechanism as I swear it did bind up. For what it's worth, all the parts were in the garage and cold soaked down to freezing temps immediately before I brought inside and assembled it so that might be a contributor.

[Mr6x]

A friend of mine bought a Demon and had the problem with the shavings. He just couldn't get it to run right. He finally pulled it apart and found shavings behind the idle screws. He cleaned out the trash and it ran fine.

Probably a lack of effective quality control on BG's part IMO. As far as I'm concerned, this is just plain unacceptable. I hope they realize that it's their customers that keeps them in business.

Bad press like these posts always hurt. BG, take your licks and learn from it. Using examples like the Holley recall does nothing to validate BG's poor quality control or customer service.

[fastgto]

Jesus, it seems to me that the BG Tech is on here alot trying to work things out.
He seems to be on here more than any other company rep from any other company.
He is at least trying it appears. I give him and the BG Company huge kudo`s for at least trying to work things out. BG Tech in my opinion you are doing a good job at trying to keep people happy. NO I am NOT trying to offend anybody at all, by making this statement.

[Tech @ BG]

A friend of mine bought a Demon and had the problem with the shavings. He just couldn't get it to run right. He finally pulled it apart and found shavings behind the idle screws. He cleaned out the trash and it ran fine.

Probably a lack of effective quality control on BG's part IMO. As far as I'm concerned, this is just plain unacceptable. I hope they realize that it's their customers that keeps them in business.

Bad press like these posts always hurt. BG, take your licks and learn from it. Using examples like the Holley recall does nothing to validate BG's poor quality control or customer service.We did not post the recall to validate our quality contol as it was posted to show they took the route of using junk zinc in their castings for a period of time when we did not .We continued to use U.S. made zinc at a much higher cost and did not have a price increase. As ALREADY covered in this thread and on many other boards we DID take our licks on the shavings,openly admitted it and took measures to correct it... old news....here to help as always.

[440GP69]

i may be a lill off topic but what type of horse power will these support???

[Mr6x]

Tech @ BG,

Why didn't your company send him a replacement manifold? If you know that there are defective manifolds out there, why not just replace it?

A happy customer might net you a few word of mouth sales, but an unhappy customer, such as Mr. Emmerich, might be costing you many, many more.

In my opinion, your company should have nipped this in the bud. Instead, you continue with these exchanges with your customer trying to defend your company's position in a forum of his peers. Do you think your gaining sales this way? How many people are going to think twice before they purchase your product now?

Maybe these production problems are worked out now, but what about all the other people that got "stuck" with your first run, a product known to have multiple issues. They are the ones that stuck their neck and wallets out for you and your company because they believed in the product you were pitching.

Heck, I even like this product but I still remember the shavings in my friends Demon. And now this? No sir, this product is not for me.

I've been a Process and Quality Technician for 7 years now and I see this all the time. Take my advise, nip this in the bud and exchange the manifold. It makes good business sense in the long run. Remember, potential customers are reading this thread too.

[lazlo]

I don't have a dog in this fight but I gotta tell ya..................

I read the negative thread on Inline Tube, and the responses posted by a representative from that company. Based on reading the entire thread I'll be buying a power disc brake assembly for my 68 GTO from them..

After reading this thread and the responses by BG TEch, I'll pass on buying anything with their label on it. I spend $2600 bucks on a piece I expect it to be right, or to be made right very quickly. I don't expect to be told to fix it myself or send it back two or three times to get it right while my project sits in the garage waiting for repairs on a high dollar item.

The correct respnse on a $2600 intake problem is "Send it back, we'll ship you a new one right away, and pay for shipping" not "Send it back two or three times and we'll try to fix a problem we were aware of when you called us with the first compaint.

I think the biggest reason for BG tech to be on here publicly addressing problems is to do damage control and I'm not impressed.

[YVEYANT]

Bingo on both of the previous responses.
Nothing this representative says will legitimize what has transpired here. When BG himself decides to swallow his pride and do what is right, which is to give this man a new intake with a smile, then and only then will I keep an open mind towards any future purchases of a BG product. I would also be sure to let people know how they made good on and stood by their product 100%. Otherwise, I will continue to let everyone who is ever interested in a BG product know about this thread where they can judge for themselves. This thread will hurt BG over time if not rectified.
Think a simple thread and a bunch of people cannot make sales dwindle over time.. We are the bread and butter as this is the outlet/hobby we live and breath for. This is not some knitting site.
This will not be one of those company blunders or threads which will die down over time. It will continue to come around until Eric is given a new manifold. He is a customer who expected the best from BG and was clearly given an inferior product. I don't care if he cut it in half. If he was given a superior, flawless product as he should of received, their would of never been a reason for him to alter it. Do the right thing, stand by your product and give this gentleman what he paid for, a new manifold.
Respectively, ask BG himself to reconsider this and do the right thing by this gentleman. It can only help in the long run.

[Tech @ BG]

Guys, we are here to help but our decision is final for the reasons already posted . Unless someone else has a legitimate problem in this thread we will not be posting anymore in it .

[67 Lamnas]

My buddy Mike Wasson bought three six shooters for resale in '07. We assembled one the nite before a swap meet where he wanted to have one on display for show and tell.

During assembly, I noted the lack of spot-facing on the driver's side manifold mounting bolt, and we couldn't get the front carb to go down over the studs, because the location of one of the studs was off.

I can't imagine spending ~$2500 for a six-shooter, and then being told that BG was aware of the problem, and not getting an updated manifold shipped to me at no charge.

If I ran my business that way, I would eventually have no customers, and for the same reasons as others have stated on here, I will not be buying any BG products, nor will I recommend them to others. In fact, I'll go one step further and recommend that folks NOT buy BG products.

[Firedup6975]

These business practices are repulsive IMHO! We the "little" Guy or Girl seek out businesses such as these to help and provide us with guidance and products we can trust!!! Kind of like going to the DR. and trusting them to go above and beyond the call of duty. It's no different in the Retail market, and when a problem arises, we expect that problem be dealt with in a professional manner, which means making good on something that is wrong. Will it take until a specific part flies apart and cause a serious injury to someone in their Car or worse a Fatality???? Food for thought here, a business could be totally wiped out if that happens!!! Think about that not to mention the Company CEO and reps will live with that the rest of your lives!!Especially in times such as these and economics not looking good on the horizon with rising costs of EVERYTHING, It would be an especially good time to re think decisions that may un doubted hurt ones business as a result of being UN reasonable over a situation such as this. Positive word of mouth comments and experiences account for more business in a business such as this than you might think. Why can't you just simple come to the realization that you need to make this right for all parties involved? Keeping Customers happy, will make for a better, bigger stronger, business in the end, over the later!

Do what's RIGHT! Because you know it's RIGHT!!

[RAJ7395]

Adams posts above indicate that Barry Grant himself made (was at least was aware of) the descision not to replace Erics intake. In my opinion, for the owner and guy whose name is plastered all over the unit to deny making it right is just flat out stupid and wrong.

We bought a Six Shooter not a "Sick Sh!tter".

[Tech @ BG]

i may be a lill off topic but what type of horse power will these support???
We have seen guys use them anywhere up into the high 500hp ranges. They will function above that but keep in mind at some point a higher performance intake manifold and a properly matched single carburetor will start making better power just due to the overall size of everything.

[Old Blue 66]

Guys, we are here to help but our decision is final for the reasons already posted . Unless someone else has a legitimate problem in this thread we will not be posting anymore in it .

We will continue to defend ourselves though as needed as long as this thread keeps going. We will also continue to help those we can.

Looks like another side step to me. Based on what I’ve read through out this thread, there’s no way I could even think of doing business on any level with this company.

The case here is simple especially when dealing with high dollar engine parts. A little good PR (not the negative stuff that’s in this thread) goes a hell of a long way.

Congrats BG. Looks like you’ve lost quite a few customers simply because you wouldn’t do right by one.

[pinballDan]

It is just amazing about companies that don't stand behind there products when they know they have a problem , from engine blocks to intake manifolds they should replace or refund . If you ordered a part from a LARGER company such as summit or jegs they would eat the part and refund or replace it no questions asked , so you would tell 10 friends how they took care of you but these smaller companies want to fleece you on there mistakes , then cry about it when they should of eaten the intake or block to save there name . But today the world is no about honer it is about get the quick buck and bankrupt and start under another name. What makes me sick is that most of use are hard working people that don't make $2600 in a week and It takes time to save that much and then to have a company sell you a part that they know is not 100% correct and they say well you did it to it . Well you told me to . Thank god there are some people at some companies that still care . Won't say names but there are some .

Dan

[Tech @ BG]

I know I said I wasn't going to comment but a couple of the statements thrown around merit it in keeping things factual. There are no issues at this point with the fitment of Eric's intake . Bottom line is that Eric ground all over the entire surface of the intake and has an issue with the looks of it. We do not knowingly send out send out parts that are not 100% correct as insinuated so please don't post false statements.The original castings were done by a very reputable company who also made castings for the big 3 automakers and the fittment around the bolt holes was not discovered until approx 65-85 of them were shipped.The other intakes that were brought back in here have been spot faced and sent back out because they were new and once again the spot-facing was the only issue with them. You guys can continue to bash and come to your own conclusions but there were 2 people that were taken care of in this thread as well as a couple of others with non-related issues and several more that needed carburetor recommendations. GM , Ford and Chrysler do not give out replacement cars because they have an update or a campaign on them nor are we required to do so. We offered to spot face Eric's manifold and machine the areas that could be but upon inspection saw the remainder of the intake was ground upon which is not a warrantable concern. If you bought a carburetor from us and the float stuck so you decided to take a hammer and beat on the float bowl to unstick it and broke the bowl and the main body would you expect to have them replaced under warranty? You cannot honestly sit there and say yes and this situation is no different. We made a legitimate effort to resolve this as was evidenced by the BBB findings yet it was not enough to satisfy the customer in this case. At this point we can continue to agree to disagree.

[GT182]

I've got to agree along with Lazlo, YVEYANT, 67 Lamnas and others. If I ran a buisness knowing I had sold defective first-run products and a coustomer complained, was told to try something that didn't work, got a poor workaround from the company, and then was told tuff doo doo no more support, refund or replacement... I'd be gettiing a lawyer and sue. I'm sure Eric has this all documented and it should be his legal right to go after BG.

I was looking at some of the Barry Grant products for my 66 GTO, but in no way will I buy from a company that does this to it's customers. IMHO you have stolen 2500 dollars from Eric with a known defective product. Shame shame shame... poor Quality Control and Mangement is no excuse. Remember, without satisfied customers you eventually go out of buisness, from the word of it spreading around.

[PonchoV8]

You guys (Barry Grant) sold people defective products at full price?! Without offering to replace them after discovering they were slop?! And when he allowed you to refurbished it in your shop to fix one problem (only to find it had another problem) you still didn't offer to replace it with a nondefective product?!
Whatever it takes to sell the bad ones I guess. He spent $2500 on defective product you couldn't fix the first time. :bolt:

I'm glad I didn't buy one of those. I know I won't forget who sold it to him and who didn't replace it. Barry Grant. Good job guys, you really got that sucker didn't you?

Eric, I'm sorry you didn't get what you paid for, but I'm glad I learned of this topic.

EDIT: Oh yeah, GM replaced my GMC Sonoma's defective windshield wiper relay for no charge 9 yrs after it was sold new. GM replaced my injector pump on my GMC diesel Sierra at 98,000 miles 8 yrs after it was sold new for no charge. Nissan replaced every fuel injector and it's wiring on every single fuel injected car brought in that was made after 1984 up to the 90s at no charge.
What was your excuse again. That you wouldn't buy him a new car just because you sold him defective goods? I think a new intake would've covered the situation. Next?

[67 Lamnas]

Barry Grant & Co. just doesn't get it......

[Bjorn]

This is looking justlike a thread an FGF where Tamraz had a complaint, not quite as severe as this , but MANY members from then on decided to not buy from them...

Having been in the car businnes before and trained our "customer satisfaction manager" (we were the first in town to have that in 1985) , I can just say that having sold a problem part and not fixing the problem is VERY EXPENSIVE....the cost of trying to weasel out of that situation is mUCH MORE EXPENSIVE than fixing the problem...overcoming bad reputation costs many thousands...
if I was Barry Grant & Co, and I`m not, I would have replaced that part long ago!

As I bought back two cars that Volvo said I didnt need to, because there was no problem, (but there IS a problem in the mind of the customer) I found out I made lOTS of positive image for the company ,and MADE money at the same time....but some people will have to find out for themselves.....
typically a positive situtation you tell 3-5 others about , a negative you`ll tell 20.... just think back at any negative situation, how many people have you told about it! over and over....on this site, many have already gotten bad impression of BG &Co....may be very hard to overcome, and expensive!

[jimmy daniel]

BG. Stop posting. You're killing yourself. You may convince yourself you did the right thing but you're not having much luck with the readers. You may not want to admit it (and it's too late to do it now) but I'd bet you wish you had just sent him a dang intake a long time ago and been done with it. Sheeees. Sometimes when in business, you just can't afford to "win" the argument, even if you think you're right. He probably shouldn't have ground on the intake, and looking back, the intake should have been right to begin with. This has just blown into something way bigger than it should've. There's no way to shrink it now. Let it go, the damage is done, right or wrong.

[Stuckinda60s]

Think of how much better it would have been if the intake had been exchanged in the beginning. There would probably be 144 favorable posts instead of this negative thread.

Don't you think that Sears knew their Craftsman tools were being misused? Screwdrivers used for chisels? Ratchets with 3' pipes being used for cheaters? They replaced tools without a whimper, though, didn't they? They got a tremendous amount of advertising out of it and a good reputation to boot. I understand they've changed their policy in recent years so that they don't replace ratchets, just exchange the broken parts. Not as good, but they're still standing behind their product, apparently better than you are.

Many years ago, newly married and working for $3.00/hour, I bought a '49 Ford pickup as an investment. I paid $100 for it. I mentioned it to a casual acquaintance and he came and looked at it and offered me $275. I said ok, but let me get it ready for inspection.

I replaced the front seat with a back seat from a '64 Ford wagon my wife's dad had, welded up the almost new exhaust system from the same car for it and welded turn signals on the fenders. I also did a tuneup on it. The result? It was a lot nicer vehicle when it went out the door than when he bought it.

I delivered it to him and a week later he called me up and said it was burning oil. The PO had sworn to me that it didn't and I passed that on to the buyer. I took it back and replaced the rings and bearings on my nickle although I couldn't really afford it.

Did I make any money on it? Not by a long shot! The buyer was satisfied,though, and I felt good about it. Did I do it for good customer relations or advertising? No, I'd done it because I felt it was the right thing to do. I've only seen the buyer 3-times since he bought it but I didn't have to avoid him when I did.

[fastgto]

I wonder if all the people making the comments feel the same way, and are venting the same way towards the { the butter } block people. Only curious and yes I`ve read both threads. And YES in my opinion customer service rates a giant #1.

[PonchoV8]

I have no idea what the{ butter }means. As an impartial observer, I'll hold firm that BG owes the guy. I'm betting their ego won't let them be gracious though.
If you're talking about the poor blocks that surfaced a while back, I haven't followed that discussion.

None for me guys (BG). I'll go elsewhere. I can't take a chance that they won't stand behind a product.

[jimmy daniel]

And I wonder how many people at BG actually know this has blown up like this. My guess is a couple of guys are trying to cover their a$$es now that they let this get WAY out of hand. BUT, they won THEIR side of the argument so they can take turns patting each other on the back. Great job!

[Ron Landis]

in the "whinny" post...they fired the wrong people. I'll bet that the scumbags that faxed my posts from this site to my employers in hopes of costing me my job just for bringing the truth to the forefront are also the ones "covering their butts" on this one. Their actions speak volumns about the kind of people they are and they deserve whatever they get from this whole ordeal. I also might add that their ventetta towards me was yet another bad decision on their part. I'll leave it at that. Hopefully, they will at least learn something from this blunder. 'Nuff sed.