Shipping anything to Canada read this

[Cammer-6]

I sold an A/C system for a Chevy on ebay.
The auction had a fixed price for shipping in USA only
and advised bidders outside of USA to contact me first for a shipping quote.
Bidding was doing fine until the last minute( I was watching it) and someone
with only a couple of transactions bid the highest and won.
I was immediately contacted by the next lower bidder who I had been conversing
via email for days. He had said if the high bid was a fluke he would take a second chance offer.
(should have bid higher to begin with.) Anyway I then noticed that the person that won was from
Canada and hadnt asked ahead of time for a shipping quote.
They promptly emailed me their Ph# and asked for a shipping quote.
I ran the shipping quote thru an online FedEx shipping site and sent them a total.
This was immediately paid via Paypal so I thought all was well.
Items were boxed up and all the proper custom duty forms were filed.
I claimed actual auction price for the worth,had to split it up between 3 boxes
and sent it via Fed Ex ground.
This was over 3 months ago and I just got a letter from Fed ex stating that my account
is going to be charged $90 because the buyer didnt pay the duty tax.
I called Fed ex and asked why they didnt collect it when the packages were delivered
and they said it was customary to deliver without payment.
They also said theres no way I could have collected the duty tax for them as I wouldnt
have known how much it would be.
Well parts have been delivered,money paid thru Paypal and Im now stuck with a deadbeat that wont pay his taxes.

[Kurt Zimmerman]

That sucks big time.

Just makes it tougher to do business with our northern neighbors. Alot of sellers won't ship to Canada or anywhere besides the lower 48.

Kurt

[69F1REB1RD]

Actually I think some sort of mistake has been made. As far as I know since this is a US produced item being shipped to Canada there is no duty. Remember Free Trade? This maybe why he refused to pay.

Jamie

[Lemans64]

Every time I have recieved something from the US, I have been billed by UPS or Fedex for the duty and taxes, no reason why u should pay it, person buying the part is responsible to pay. Same as driving over the line and bringing something back with u,Buyer has to pay. Not sure why they would try and bill U?? Oh by the way Sorry to hear about the deadbeat, Canadian or not, cuz that's dirty pool.

[02Hawk]

Each time I have had a delivery from the US I had to pay any taxes, duties etc that were due COD.
Why would the buyer who paid you via PayPal for the item plus shipping have anything to due with this. Fed ex is a gigantic company which ships tand recieves in every country on the planet which should know what the h### is going on.

Used parts do not have any duty on them. if new parts are built in the US or Canada there are also no duties. In my province, 90 bucks in taxes would be 1800 bucks in air conditioner parts which must be a special system.
Most companies that ship me parts use UPS. If I buy items on ebay i normally tell the seller to ship me by snail mail. No problems at this end. All taxes get paid to the postal service on delivery.

[niceta]

sounds to me like fed-ex dropped the package without collecting their fee and are now trying to get you to pay. Have you contacted the buyer? I would talk to fed-ex and tell them it is the buyers responsailities to pay the duties. It is up to them to collect it from the buyer.

[Pearlbluebird]

Sounds like Fedex should get a collection agency after the buyer for the $90.00. You should not be liable.
I always had to pay my taxes and brokerage fees.

[Mr. P-Body]

Same ol' same ol'... Large companies won't accept responsibility and MUST sluff it off on SOMEONE! Your turn... In today's business and political environment, it seems to be the "norm". It isn't right...

Jim

[Tazzz2]

Fedex isn't so bad,,,,Try "UPS" on for size their brokerage charges alone are more than that for anything out of the USA......

What your most likely seeing is a nominal GST & PST charge with the rest of the balance being the Fedex brokerage fees at the boarder....Some Canadians new to the e-bay experience don't understand that and refuse to pay causing all the rest of us to get a bad name.....It's important to make sure your clear with anyone you sell to in Canada that they will be responsible for "All charges" as they relate to the package shipping and please don't bundle us all into the same sack.......Some of us really are good people to deal with lol.

BTW......I'd tell Fedex to hit it on the charges and tell them to advise Canada customs of the package in question that has not had it's taxes collected...........I'm sure if Fedex reversed the GST & PST portion of their charges,,,The government would be all to pleased to have a little discussion with this dead beat bidder,,,nobody wants these guys knocking on your door as they have absolutely no sense of humor what-so-ever from what I'm to understand lmao...

[Bjorn]

"Importer" always pays the "import" duty ,to all countries...if FedEx "forgot" to collect its their problem....
you didnt have to pay an "export duty" you Exported the item!
I`d call FedeX office! or the customs...

[79TA455]

Each time I have had a delivery from the US I had to pay any taxes, duties etc that were due COD.


Same here. I had ordered some tips for my brother for his T/A (shipped UPS) and they collected duties etc when it was delivered.

I agree with Tazzz2 as well about UPS and their damn fees. :poke: :mad:

[Cammer-6]

"Importer" always pays the "import" duty ,to all countries...if FedEx "forgot" to collect its their problem....
you didnt have to pay an "export duty" you Exported the item!
I`d call FedeX office! or the customs...

I have called Fed Ex,they claim its policy to deliver the package, when shipped ground, without payment of duty taxes and fees.I have also contacted the buyer via email thru Ebay(using all proper means of contact) and have gotten no response.
Fed Ex has said they will bill my account directly if this isnt paid.
Maybe Ill let them do this and let my credit card company that the account is paid on
fight it out with them. But Im sure they will suspend my shipping account until its cleared up.

I dont want to generalize that all Canadians dont pay their taxes but this will severely hamper my desire to ship anything else north of the border.

[68birdragtop]

I shipped a part Fedex to an American purchaser and i was the one getting dinged!

[firebirdcrazy1959]

I'm shipping 7 box's to Canada,i hope i don't have a problem.The lady at the UPS drop off place told me i just need the address and a phone number for the buyer.I hope he does not have a problem too.

[Carl A]

"I dont want to generalize that all Canadians dont pay their taxes" or on another note
"I dont want to generalize about all Americans they are .......!!";)
Before you listen to FedEx over the phone get it in writing, I have never had anything delivered without everything ( duty & tax) paid for first , and this 3 months after the fact trying to ding you.
Some one on here once said "I usually like to be kissed first before I get F&cked" which sounds like the case here.

[performerrpm]

i shipped a 66 gto 4 speed console to canada using fed ex ground and valued it at 1000 since thats what i sold it for, i didnt have any problems i think your getting screwed and id definateley fight that one out, maybee even call a lawyer to see if they can do that

[Bjorn]

sounds like FedEx "policy" sux and needs to be revised..."importers" pay the import duty, not the exporter...its the job of the country it comes to to collect from the resident there...FedEx is simply wrong....It hate say that because I always use FedEx and like them , but I bet I wont ship anything to Canada with them..I would then use USPS , who would NOT deliver w/o duties paid, or rather the Canadian PO..its in their court then...same as Sweden ,Norway, Netherlands , Germany that I have shipped to...duty ,if deemed to be paid is paid there, by the receiver...just as a VAT if necessary....

[Cammer-6]

Bjorn,I feel like Im in for a long and bumpy ride on this one.
Until its cleared up Im suspending all shipments to Canada.
Carl A
"Before you listen to FedEx over the phone get it in writing, I have never had anything delivered without everything ( duty & tax) paid for first , and this 3 months after the fact trying to ding you."
In answer to the in writing comment see my first post

[Carl A]

:o One must learn to read the whole thread not just the last few messages.

[johnsma22]

I wouldn't stop doing business with Canadians over this. I would stop doing business with FedEx. You are in no way responsible for paying import duties/taxes.

[Polar-Pontiac]

I wouldn't stop doing business with Canadians over this. I would stop doing business with FedEx. You are in no way responsible for paying import duties/taxes.

You are 100% correct FedEx drop the ball 'Big time!

[cressy]

Everytime I have bought parts in the US I have had to pay all brokerage, duty or taxes when it was delivered by UPS.
Maybe Fed Ex doesn't collect on delivery because you have an account with them, they probably collect when shipper doesn't have an account.
Just a thought.

[242177P]

My younger brother gets packages all the time, and he's never been able to accept one before the duties/taxes are paid. NO exceptions.

If you ask me, they screwed up and now they're trying to bluff their way out of it. Call 'em, and mention that as the broker they're required to comply with Canada Customs' rules and regulations. See if they want this "incident" investigated...
The Administrative Monetary Penalty System (AMPS) is a civil penalty regime that secures compliance with customs legislation through the application of monetary penalties. AMPS authorizes the CBSA to assess monetary penalties for non-compliance with customs legislative, regulatory and program requirements.
AMPS applies to contraventions of the Customs Act and the Customs Tariff and the regulations under these Acts, as well as contraventions of the terms and conditions of licensing agreements and undertakings.
The CBSA may impose monetary penalties based on the type, frequency, and severity of the infraction. Most penalties are graduated and will take the compliance history of the client into consideration. AMPS does not impact businesses who comply with customs requirements.Quoted from: http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-commerce/amps/menu-eng.html

[Scarebird]

We ship 3-4 times a week to our Canuck brethren - always use USPS.com Make sure you mark the item description "antique auto parts" , then they will drop everything and run like hell to get the stuff where it belongs... :D

[Cammer-6]

Everytime I have bought parts in the US I have had to pay all brokerage, duty or taxes when it was delivered by UPS.
Maybe Fed Ex doesn't collect on delivery because you have an account with them, they probably collect when shipper doesn't have an account.
Just a thought.


Actually the explanation I was given by Fed ex when I called was that its their policy with ground shipments,but not express.
I tend to agree with you one the part about having an account that they can then back charge but I did ask that and the representative told me I couldnt collect it up front because there was no way I would know how much it is.
Just curious in Canada isnt this a form of tax evasion? In the USA it would be.
I now see 2 guilty parties one that didnt collect and one that didnt pay.
Scarebird are the "antique auto parts" exempt from duties and fees?

[niceta]

This sucks but the only way you will get satisfaction in this matter is to step it up. Start asking to talk to the supervisor or the fed-ex customs broker. Dont be afraid to ask lots of questions and make sure you get names and write everything down. Gona take some time but they will get sick of hearing form you and you will get justice.

I still think it is wrong for them to just drop a package without collecting duty fees and taxes.
If the guy on the recieving end refused to pay then Fed-Ex should not have given him the goods.
If you were to go straight to the border to pick up a package there is no way in hell they would release it without having collected the taxes and duty.

Start raisin sh#$

[02Hawk]

There are NO duties on auto parts manufactured in the US or Canada new or used

[niceta]

Yes you are correct hawk I meant to say there is only GST, PST(where applicable) and brokrage fees.

[stimpy]

just a word up Fed ex is in some hot water with the IRS for some otherstuff , mostly about taxes involving employees , it seems there legal department is writing there own rules . IMO I would get Canadian customs involved and the Us ICC involved . Fed ex screwed up and making you pay for there mistake of not collecting tarriffs at POD . ( if a complaint is filed with the Icc it goes against there record and they get audited if enough complaints are made) Us customs and Canadian Customs investigators are no fun to deal with .

[Cammer-6]

There are NO duties on auto parts manufactured in the US or Canada new or used


Heres the breakdown
Duty 0.00
GST-CUSTOMS 35.23
Brokerage 48.00
PST 0.00
Duty Disbursment 5.85

[concreteburner]

When ever i received an item from the US i had too pay all fees before i would get the item. However the problem, the person should pay it too you because he knows he owes these fees. As far as not shipping too Canadians thats your loss because there are lots of others that will.....good luck

[firebirdcrazy1959]

I'll say one thing,it's not cheap to ship to Canada:eek: .I have 6 box's as i posted before.Its going to be aboot:canada: ;) $450 USD.I'm lucky i don't have to pay the shipping :clap3: .

[Tazzz2]

The taxes are the week link here.......

Call the a$$hole here and tell him you are going to file a complaint to "Rev Canada" for tax evasion.....Ask him if he really wants a tax audit because your going to do everything in your power to make sure he gets a nasty one....Tell him your going to state the taxes haven't been paid and "Revenue Canada" will be brought to the table unless he pays the outstanding fees immediately.......

If he still refuses, simply state to Revenue Canada that there are some parts that have been delivered to XXXXXXXX of yyyyy address and the buyer hasn't paid their GST and PST on the parts purchased........If you want to play really dirty, just state he hinted about possibly reflecting a lower sale price for tax purposes at the boarder and that you refused to play along..............Once stated/reported, the Canadian revenue agency "Must" investigate!!!!

BTW FYI, if these guys come around they don't just stop there.............Generally they will do a full blown audit on buddy and all of his overall accounting practices.....God help him if that happens....

YOU WILL GET PAID because he can't prove to them that he's paid the taxes on the parts....make sure he knows this in the discussion you have with him....

[Carl S]

As all the other Canadians have said here, you are not responsible in any way for paying those taxes. The receiver is. I have had many pieces shipped here, and again, as all the others have said, there is no way I get my package until it's all been paid.

Fedex is trying to stick it to you, no doubt.

Carl

[242177P]

Heres the breakdown
Duty 0.00
GST-CUSTOMS 35.23
Brokerage 48.00
PST 0.00
Duty Disbursment 5.85As a visitor you can have any GST (Goods and Service Tax) from your purchases refunded, but you never bought anything from Canada. BTW, it's also 5%, so if that varies from your total... I'd wager that the action FedEx is taking is illegal.

[Scoles]

The receiver of these parts in Canada should not be hasseled over this. If there was additional fees for him to pay he would have had to pay them before the package was left with him.
The problem here is with Fed Ex, although I am not an expert I have shipped and received hundreds of items to and from the States. I have used all the shipping companies, FedEx, UPS, DHL, Purolatar, USPS and Canada Post and the ONLY shippers that don't sting you for additional fees at the time of delivery are USPS and Canada Post-provided the package is labelled as antique or used auto parts.

All the other shippers have brokerage fees, duties, taxes, transportation sur-charges ect and the person that pays those charges is determined by the shipper (not the shipping co).
In the shipping docs. there is a small box that when left un-checked allows any extra charges to be defered back to the shipper, when or if the box is checked off the charges become the receivers responsibility.
It is also very hard to use these companies when you have an account with them because it seems to give them free right to tack extra charges onto your account at any time for any reason. I had a UPS account and every month when I thought I had my account paid off they would apply some other crazy charge toward it.

The best way I have found to avoid things like this happening are: use either USPS or Canada Post (depending on your Country) for your shipping, pay cash so there is no way they can add additional charges to the shipment and label the box as long as containing used auto parts- as stated above, there are no duties on auto parts entering or leaving the U.S.
My suggestion to try and resolve this problem is to focus your efforts on FedEx and their extra billing practises.

Brian Scoles.

[Cammer-6]

Humm so you are suggesting that the person who bought the items shouldnt pay their share of taxes?Theres over $40 worth of fees that are not Fed Ex related.Yes it was declared as used auto parts.

[Pontiac1976]

"Importer" always pays the "import" duty ,to all countries...if FedEx "forgot" to collect its their problem....
you didnt have to pay an "export duty" you Exported the item!
I`d call FedeX office! or the customs...
__________________
FireBjorn
I agree!

I think that the work at fedex did that or filled out a fourm out wrong. They stiff there self trying to get there money back from you. They should eat it up if they still want you to use them.
Are you selling as a company or as a privet. That would make a bit of diference on fourms.
just my two cents. Because ever time I have got stuff from usa were duty taxes are add they will give you a bill there and then before they give you the part. ups,fedex, post office.
Is the bill from the border or the fedex I would call fedex send the bill to fedex!. I would call border duty ask them what up.

[Scoles]

I think you should find out more about this "duty tax". To my knowledge there is either a duty or a tax but I've never heard of duty tax. If it is Canadian tax - provincial sales tax or goods and service tax (PST or GST) you as an American cannot be expected to pay it. If it is a duty or brokerage fee imposed by FedEx then I think that FedEx should eat it because you were not properly informed on how to fill out the customs docs.

I'm not trying to start something here, I believe you have done nothing wrong and I think the person that received the package has done nothing wrong, if these fees are taxes then the Canadian should pay (God Bless Canada and being taxed to death). I think this is an example of a big company trying to bully a small customer because they're assuming that you as a shipper know all the in and outs of shipping internationaly and because you may not they are trying to persuede you into paying these unexpected costs. Costs that you should have been informed about by FedEx as you were doing the customs documents.
Brian.

[Cammer-6]

Look back a few posts
I listed all the fees and costs as listed when Fed Ex billed me.

[Tempest]

Cammer, you are not responsible for these charges. Since it has been 3 months, I think that FedEx has tried to collect from the buyer but has failed, so rather than eating the charges, they are trying to get them from you. If not?, Why didn't they charge you when you paid for the transportation fee?? They knew the value.
Also, if the buyer is a member of the PY Board, please let us know.
Good Luck .................eh

[Cammer-6]

I really doubt that the buyer is a member here,said he did Chevelles.
Im not paying it and if its charged off to my credit card Ill have them contest it.
I think at that time Ill have the person reported to what ever agency you report tax evaders to.
Odd thing is that the buyer was thrilled with items and gave good feedback.
I had sent them something not part of the auction with the rest of stuff which I only charged
the extra shipping on and it did take a couple of emails before I got my check for $50.
So much for being a nice guy.A good friend has a saying" No good deed goes unpunished".

[PLAY400]

Gotta watch these couriers. I clear my own stuff that gets sent across the line. If UPS errors and clears the goods themselves they will either unwind the process and give me the paper work so I can clear it myself or "eat" the "borker" charges and just collect the taxes. In the second senerio they have tried to claw back the "borker" $$ everytime. A quick phone call usually puts an end to it.

[Tazzz2]

Brian Scoles has brought up some very valid points here (he's generally well informed and wise beyond his years)....The fee breakdown is well worth understanding....That considered, if it's taxes that are owed it's not your responsibility....From what your saying, this guy is an A$$ and his day will come soon enough if he conducts himself like that with everyone he deals with....

[02Hawk]

I just recieved a package from the States that was shipped Fed Ex. I had to pay the taxes owing and the brokerage (or is it borkerage?) prior to picking the package up. No ifs, buts, or sorry, pay the bill. The fed ex dude took my visa card right there and put it through his hand held card machine. The shipping papers clearly noted that the taxes and brokerage fees were COD. Maybe yours was checked prepaid by error

[Cammer-6]

I never agreed to "prepay" the fees,only the initial shipping charges.
Fed ex rep even told me that I couldnt prepay those fees,taxes,dutys or what ever else they are called, as I wouldnt have known how much they were ahead of time.

[Scoles]

This situation also needs to be considered from the receivers point of view. He bought something off EBay, was given a shipping quote, paid the asked amount, received his items and left positive feedback.

Now three months later, out of the blue he's asked to pay another $40.00 dollars in shipping related expenses. I'll bet alot of folks would act the same way as this fellow is. I'll also bet that if FedEx had asked him at the time of delivery for the extra funds to cover the taxes and duties he would have paid them - like we all would have or we (Canadians) have done in the past.
I'm not saying this guy should be free from paying his fair share (although in Canada the taxes we pay are more then our fair share, but that's a topic for another day) I'm just saying that it's going to be harder to convince him of that three months after delivery.

I believe this is a FedEx screw-up and as an account holder their going to try to recoup their losses from you. FedEx needs to be taken to task here not the little guy.
Brian Scoles.

[chuckies76ta]

I bought parts for my wifes 68 Firebird on Ebay and a bill from Fedex came stating I owed them $44.65.

Here is the break down. Parts were $143.04
GST was $8.58 on parts.
Brokerage Fees were $28.50 + 1.43 GST.
Disbursement Fees were $5.85 + .29 GST
Total was $44.65

Send cheque to Fedex today.. Fedex seems to be the only company to bill after the fact. UPS gets you at the door before you take parcel. Canada post also get you to pay up front.
Most of the time Canada post through United States Postal Service is the best way to go..

Charles

[Cammer-6]

But you like all the others that are responsible citizens paid it.

Who do I file with if this deadbeat doesnt pay it?

[chuckies76ta]

I don't think it's your issue.. You did your job. Fedex is just trying to collect their money. The charges are to the person who received the goods. He's the importer.

Did you call Fedex see what they say?

Charles

[Tempest]

Cammer,
If I go to Buffalo and buy a part from someone (business or private) when I return Canada Customs doesn't go after the person I bought it from, they go after me for the money. What does FedEx say when you ask them, Why me? and secondly, why now? why didn't they charge you at the time of shipping? They knew ALL the information then, destination, commodity, and value. I really don't like these big couriers trying to intimidate people. Keep us posted.

[glassguy42]

I thought I'd state my two cents worth.
On behalf of all Canadians I apologize.
On items purchased there is no duty usually, but there is GST (tax), and maybe PST and brokerage charges. I have received shipments from UPS in the past and their brokerage is excessive. I don't know about Fedex.
It is for this reason I have a US broker to receive all my US purchases. I gain on lower US shipping, his brokerage charges are reasonable and he sees to all cross boarder shipping. I pick up the item on the Canadian side a few minutes away.
I have run into several times of seller refusing to ship to Canada which is frustrating.
Any seller should add a statement to all shipping quotes that additional tax and brokerage charges are the buyers responsibility.
Since this was an Ebay purchase are there not buyer and seller penalties?

[Cammer-6]

This is all on the auction
pretty clear who pays all shipping costs








Item will not be shipped until Cashiers check or Money Order has cleared.Please ask about shipping outside of USA fee quoted doesnt apply.ship Fed Ex ground or optional USPS Priority .Insurance is optional.
Seller's return policy:
Item must be returned within: 7 Days Refund will be given as: Money Back
Return policy details: No Returns unless OK by seller.
Shipping cost burden of buyer.
No returns due to improper fitament,
please check before bidding.

[Peter Serio]

To protect your self as a seller on ebay there are several boxes you can check or uncheck as the case may be when you list your auctions clearly stating where & where you will not ship to. How that bid got thru & the guy won is that you had the wrong boxes checked. Or maybe you did not have enough boxes checked. Point being, YOU can block out certain countries or all of them if you want to; except the US if that's where your selling out of. That one little box would have cured this entire problem before it began in 2 like seconds time. Often I have a possible bidder EM me & ask beacuse if you have a country blocked, he or she can look & ohhh & ahhhh but he or she can't bid, (it will not go thru). That way perhaps you can pre-screen possible bidders in the future.

[vtxman]

I have called Fed Ex,they claim its policy to deliver the package, when shipped ground, without payment of duty taxes and fees.
Fed Ex has said they will bill my account directly if this isnt paid.
Maybe Ill let them do this and let my credit card company that the account is paid on
fight it out with them. But Im sure they will suspend my shipping account until its cleared up.

This is unique to Fedex. It is their policy to deliver the shipment even if the duties and taxes are not paid by the buyer/importer. UPS will not deliver under any circumstances unless the taxes are paid. Fedex and UPS have to prepay the fees to customs. If the importer refuses to pay, Fedex will deliver and charge the shippers account. UPS will hold the package and give the shipper the opportunity to have it returned, but they won't deliver without the fees being paid.

This particular buyer/importer is probably familiar with these policies and has taken advantage of getting the shipment without paying the fees. If it was shipped UPS, he probably would have paid the fees to get the A/C system that he had already paid for.

You are not going to change Fedex's policy, and you are probably not going to get your money from the buyer. You can refuse to pay, but then you won't be able to ship Fedex any longer, they will close your account and send the debt to collections.

You can either pay it and learn a hard lesson, or let them close the account and start using UPS. Fedex and UPS fees are very similar, but you are much safer with UPS, especially shipping Internationally.

[vtxman]

In reference to the North America Free Trade Agreement, (NAFTA) a shipment can qualify for reduced or no fees if a NAFTA statement is included on the commercial invoice required by customs. This statement is a sentence requesting the shipment to be rated under the NAFTA agreement. For shipments valued more that $1,600 CAD an actual NAFTA certificate of origin is required to receive the reduced or eliminated fees.

You don't benefit from NAFTA unless you ask for it. Don't ask me why. This only benefits the importer in Canada. It doesn't reduce the costs of the US shipper unless you ship it Fedex and the importer refuses to pay the fees.

[Cammer-6]

To protect your self as a seller on ebay there are several boxes you can check or uncheck as the case may be when you list your auctions clearly stating where & where you will not ship to. How that bid got thru & the guy won is that you had the wrong boxes checked. Or maybe you did not have enough boxes checked. Point being, YOU can block out certain countries or all of them if you want to; except the US if that's where your selling out of. That one little box would have cured this entire problem before it began in 2 like seconds time. Often I have a possible bidder EM me & ask beacuse if you have a country blocked, he or she can look & ohhh & ahhhh but he or she can't bid, (it will not go thru). That way perhaps you can pre-screen possible bidders in the future.


Pete I didnt want to exclude shipment to Canada.
I did state that the buyer,if from Canada,needed to contact me first as the flat rate
shipping that was part of auction was for USA only.

[wild dave]

I'm Canadian ah UPS won't even drop at my place of business ( where they pick-up and deliever 9 out of 10 days ) with out being paid. However don't let them leave without a proof of payment, because I've seen their collection agency come looking for money they already recieved more than once. Please don't stop shipping goods North we need parts too. Thanks