Any attorneys around???

[Ron Landis]

Still fighting to recoup the $2k we got ripped off for by Milt Schornack and his band of cohorts in Indiana on the '70 GTO deal. Anyone know how to go about attatching a lien on the car if/when it shows up here in Ohio? We asked that the car not be released from the shop until we were paid and even surrendered parts to them to finish the car in hopes that they would make good on their promises to "get everyone paid" once the car was done, but evidently they got their cash and decided to hellp Milt screw us by releasing the car. There is the matter of $1000 paid to the guy that did the cage and then at least another $1000 for doing the frame, for which even the credit for that was stolen! We are fed up with getting shafted and are going to pursue this one to the end...even if we have to take down a couple of businesses in the process. Any help or advice would be appreciated. Meanwhile...fair warning to others in dealing with these folks. They are out for themselves. I had heard that Milt served time for ripping off folks in the past, but evidently did not learn his lesson. I had considered these people friends and that's what hurt the most. Thanx in advance for any help or advise. Ron

[Brian Baker]

I'm not a real attorney...but I play one on the internet.;)

Seriously, I would contact the State Attorney Generals office for the state in which the party resides and ask about your options regarding filing a claim in small claims court.

[Jerry H.]

Hopefully this post will help you get your money. I've never understood how some people can sleep at night. Good luck Ron.

[Ron Landis]

Hopefully this post will help you get your money. I've never understood how some people can sleep at night. Good luck Ron.
as these guys are absolutely shameless, Jerry. We're old school and wouldn't consider doing this to anyone...let alone a friend. I'm sure these folks sleep just fine, but it's not me. Brian...I'd settle for some mob ties right now! Help me out, bro. lol Thanx anyway. Ron

[Sirrotica]

Ron was at my house recently purchasing some T-Shirts and he and I discussed this matter. I was shocked to find out who these people were, and how this all came about. It seems Rons son, Kevin did most of the work on said frame and not only was he not taken care of monetarily, someone else only put rear shocks on the completed frame and proceeded to take credit for the whole frame restoration. Ron and Kevin I wish you luck on recovering the money, and you have given more than fair warning to those involved.

[Brian Baker]

Well...I don't "know" any people, Ron...but I do have a close friend that "knows" people. That's not a road I would want to venture down were I in your shoes...not yet anyway.:p

In all seriousness, I can think of no better place to contact than the State Attorney General's office for the state in which the party resides. Explain your situation and ask them how you would go about filing suit in a small claims court to get your money. Not many people are aware that this is what the State Attorney General's office is for, as the head prosecutor in that state.

[Brian Baker]

BTW, I shot some pictures of a '70 GTO Milt had on display at VMP last weekend...I assume this is the same car? White and gold with Royal Automotive lettering on the side?

[Ron Landis]

BTW, I shot some pictures of a '70 GTO Milt had on display at VMP last weekend...I assume this is the same car? White and gold with Royal Automotive lettering on the side?

that's the one. Look for it on e-Bay once he has established a "racing" heritage. Most all of the part are donated from PY, Legendary, Moroso and others. Quite the scammer, ol' Milt. Did this with the '66 car, I believe. Anyway...thanx and I will look into it. Ron

[Big Injun]

A leopard never changes his spots...

[Old Blue 66]

I dont know Milt at all. But if you are serious about pursuing a legal matter, I probibly would refrain from bashing him or discussing the matter on a public forum. JMO.

[74gto]

Ron,
i can't say details, but when I was a teen and had my first Pontiac, Milt lived 1/2 mile from my dad's pizzaria. His neighbor was a regular customer. He told me Milt was going away. How long he served I don't remember. All I can say is it involved Pontiac cast iron blocks and heads.

[1967Clone]

I dont know Milt at all. But if you are serious about pursuing a legal matter, I probibly would refrain from bashing him or discussing the matter on a public forum. JMO.

Best advice by far. ;)

[Ron Landis]

" As long as you're not telling any lies." I'm not. Just asking advice because I'm not at all used to being in such a position. I'll take ALL advice to heart, but I'll not be intimidated by the legal system working against me any more than I am confident that it will work for me. Thanx again. Take care. Ron

[Old Blue 66]

Like I said before. Don't post anything you might want to pursue in a legal matter on a public forum. Factual or non factual, there are always two sides to every story. What you post here could easily be misrepresented.

Ill be willing to bet money that Milt or a friend of Milt would see this and use it against you.

Still fighting to recoup the $2k we got ripped off for by Milt Schornack and his band of cohorts in Indiana on the '70 GTO deal.

They could start just by the first line in your post. Then I see at last a couple of others.

[Brian Baker]

that's the one. Look for it on e-Bay once he has established a "racing" heritage. Most all of the part are donated from PY, Legendary, Moroso and others. Quite the scammer, ol' Milt. Did this with the '66 car, I believe. Anyway...thanx and I will look into it. Ron

Unlike Arnie's "Righteous Judge" clone, I don't believe Milt ever tried to pawn off the '66 as the real deal. I saw it last year at VMP and took several shots of it, it was such a beautiful car, and the talk in the pits from Milt's camp was that it was not the orignal, that it was a recreation, or clone if you will.

[Ron Landis]

Unlike Arnie's "Righteous Judge" clone, I don't believe Milt ever tried to pawn off the '66 as the real deal. I saw it last year at VMP and took several shots of it, it was such a beautiful car, and the talk in the pits from Milt's camp was that it was not the orignal, that it was a recreation, or clone if you will.

just that they call on so many to help and to donate...then take the money and run. Same will happed here, I'll bet. Anyway...I strongly believe that you reap what you sow. I'll just enjoy watching. Take care. Ron

[2manyponchos]

"Still fighting to recoup the $2k we got ripped off for by Milt Schornack and his band of cohorts in Indiana on the '70 GTO deal." - Ron Landis

That statement is unreal to me as apparently being one of the 'cohorts from Indiana'. Let me first start off by saying that we were contacted by YOU AND KEVIN to help on this project and do the metal/paint work. We were just honored to be involved in such a part of Pontiac history. The metal work and parts were charged out on this project at COST. Paul, his business, and myself did not make a DIME on this project (in fact still owed for some parts). Paul charged only enough to pay his employee for fabrication time and the parts. Also the completely beautiful roll bar which had every tube custom bent to fit the lines of the car and maintain the stock interior did cost $1000. We made no money on that either! In fact I'm in the hole if you consider the 2 150 mile trips I made to pickup and deliver the rolling body to the fab shop. I didn't even think about charging for my fuel...it was DONATED along with 100's if not a thousand hours by Paul and myself on this car. Not too mention numerous trips to Michigan and Ohio for parts and parts delivery. WE NEVER DID AND WILL NOT MAKE ANY MONEY ON THIS PROJECT OTHER THAN THE BUSINESS ADVERTISING THAT MAY COME OUT OF THE FINISHED PROJECT BEING SEEN AT EVENTS. Please explain to me how I am a 'cohort' again. This is a deal between Kevin and Milt, I assume yourself as well. Please do not pull us into this.

I've gotta comment on this as well and want to state that I have never opened my mouth on this subject until now as I considered you and Kevin to be friends in the Pontiac community, but you opened the can of worms...

"It seems Rons son, Kevin did most of the work on said frame and not only was he not taken care of monetarily, someone else only put rear shocks on the completed frame and proceeded to take credit for the whole frame restoration" - Sirrotica

Like stated above I never mentioned this before because I considered you and Kevin to be a friend, but here it is. The frame was delivered to us with the front suspension assembled and lines, but no rearend or rear suspension. Random body mount holes were fixed with large (probably 7 gauge) washers placed on top of the frame/welded around and we would have needed to make different height body mounts for the entire car for everything to sit square and level. Decided to fix the mount holes properly and disassemble the frame. A significant amount of welding, straightening (rear cross member was severly bent as well as the c channels in the center of the frame), and body/paint work was done on the frame (after you delivered it done) FREE and never mentioned. Paul, myself, my brother-in-law, and my 14, 15, and 16 year old cousins completely redid and reassembled the frame (during the time Paul was supposed to be off work with major health issues). NOT A DIME WAS CHARGED OR A THING MENTIONED. Everything was redone and completely reassembled so the frame could be on display for the GTOAA convention in Columbus and show that progress was being made on the car for the vendors and everyone that was interested in the project. Once again I will mention the words FREE and DONATED. Never before have we publicly taken credit for completely doing the frame restoration on the car because I considered you a friend, but I AM STATING RIGHT NOW SINCE YOU OPENED THE CAN THAT WE DID COMPLETELY RESTORE THE FRAME!

I WILL ALSO AGAIN STATE THAT WE ARE NOT TIED IN WITH ANY POTENTIAL SALE OF THE CAR AND HAVE NOT, WILL NOT MAKE ANY MONEY ON THIS PROJECT (THAT YOU INVOLVED US IN FROM THE START). ADVERTISING IS ALL THAT WE WILL GET OUT OF IT AND THE PERSONAL SATISFACTION OF SEEING OUR WORK GO DOWN THE TRACK BECAUSE FOR ANY ONE THAT KNOWS US, WE ARE IN IT FOR LOVE OF PONTIACS AND IT IS NOT ABOUT GETTING RICH!

Continue to bring us into this and run our name into the ground...I WILL FIND A LAWYER.

Leave us out of your rant and we can go back to drinking beer, eating fried chicken, and talking Pontiac at Norwalk.

Should have let it go and am done for now.

[mzbk2l]

More than one side to every story. Interesting to hear some of the other sides to this one.

[fastgto]

Hmmm............

[Old Blue 66]

I knew it was only a matter of time.......Thread should be locked.

[mike nixon]

I'm locking this thread as it's going nowhere good in a hurry.

Mike

[Ccass]

I just wanted to add my .02 on this before we leave it closed. Ron, I think you're a little frustrated and directing your anger in the wrong direction. Then everybody jumps in and starts talking about legal action and attorney generals and what not. You'd think the guy has been stealing money from the government for the Soviet Union since the cold war. From what I read, it's not a lot of money here. :(

Milt has had his share of problems over the years but the guy is pushing 80 years old, Do you guys really believe he is in this to make a killing? He's got no real money and I believe finding the best way he can to enjoy his later years around the hobby he loves. Is he maybe expecting more than what he deserves? Maybe. But if he makes a few bucks on these cars, I don't think it's a big deal. I think all of us that participated are probably a little light in the pocket on these projects. However, we should all be aware that Milt doesn't have the funds to put together anything near a 60k restoration and that extending credit of decent amount of money is not a wise business decision. I think most of the problems with these type of deals is that everything is done on a handshake and nothing gets documented. Then 6 months or a year later and everybody seems to have different expectations of who owes who what. Milt is certainly not an accountant and he certainly isn't keeping quality records of all these side deals. If you feel he owes you some money, talk to him and try and work something out but the problem started when there wasn't documentation of the expectations on both ends. We supplied some of the parts for free on that car and he paid for most at a discount. Our thoughts were that the cars he's decided to do, help promote us and the hobby and that helps us in the long run. At any time during these projects I felt he wasn't holding his end of the bargain, I simply told him that. Business transactions that have long periods of silence or lack of 'cards on the table' usually go bad. Since he has no money, you'll probably have to wait in line until he sells the car.

Ron, it sounds like the only person you should be mad at is yourself for getting involved and I think you owe Doug and Paul an appology for implicating them at all.