What's easier than LS1 in 67 bird conv?

[als67goat]

I have a 67 bird project conv and I've been doing some research on drivetrain options. I was looking at LS1/T56 out of newer f-body but I think it's more work than I want to do. What I want is efi, overdrive MT, hei. Looking for dependability, drivability and fun to drive but not looking to take it to the track. It's a convert so I think thats just asking for trouble. I think I can get what I want with a tremec 5spd and maybe a poncho or sbc with efi conversion kit. It's a lot less work with mounts, wiring, shifter location, cooling, clutch, rear gears, basically everything.
I'm open to suggestions on motor/trans combos and efi set-ups. My other cars are 67 gto, 69 vette both #'s cars and I like the original look of these. I want the looks of classic but better performance. This will be my first project that doesn't have points or carb and with all of the body and suspension work needed I just want the drivetrain to b:confused:e easier.

[WDCreech]

I'll try not to show my bias too much, but I think a traditional Pontiac, w/efi and whatever transmission that you want to use, would be the easiest combo to install in your car. There was an article, in High Performance Pontiac, about putting efi on a Pontiac. I can't tell you what issue that it was in, but I'm sure someone on here will know. Good luck!

[gto65lvr]

I vote for traditional Pontiac power just for thhe look, however by the time you build one that is good with the injection system, tuning and what not The cost is more or equals that of the LS1 install. just on a good low mile used setup.

PLus you will get mid 20's MPG versus 12-14 MPG. There are a few companies making the swap very easy. If you dont have AC then it will be a breeze with the adaptor plates and Edelbrock headers. You will jsut have to slightly modify the trans tunnel for clearance for the T56 I think.

I picked up a 38k LS1 and 4L60E last summer for just a slip over 2k with harness so they are out there.

Good luck with what ever you decide.

[als67goat]

I found 98 LS!/T56 with 40k for $2300 locally. I was leaning that way hard for awhile but I keep coming back to the efi poncho. I just like the look of originality. Fitting the LS1 is just the beginning of that change over. I know I won't save any money with poncho, actually I suspect it will cost more. It should be alot less headaches though.
It's getting hard to find poncho motors and they're expensive plus shipping costs. If anyone knows where to find a 400 close to maryland let me know. Also if anyone has experience with a poncho efi or fitting a tremec 5 speed.Thanks

[Ollie]

Yes, there are quite a few of us out there who are installing EFI on the traditional Pontiac motor. Do a search for EFI, you will be suprised what comes up.
My project is a 455 with the megaSquirt ECM and the Edelbrock manifold. I have included several links to help you get started.

http://www.msefi.com/index.php

http://www.pro-touring.com/

http://www.pontiaczone.com/forum/

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/index.php

[FLYNLOW]

What is so particularly difficult with the LS1 swap? Everything is available to make it a drop in. Mounts are available, headers are available, fuel tanks are available... Besides the motor mounts, what do you have to change with the LS conversion that you wouldn't have to with the Pontiac?

[68gtoMN]

What is so particularly difficult with the LS1 swap? Everything is available to make it a drop in. Mounts are available, headers are available, fuel tanks are available... Besides the motor mounts, what do you have to change with the LS conversion that you wouldn't have to with the Pontiac?How do you plan on getting the gauges to work?

[als67goat]

What is so particularly difficult with the LS1 swap? Everything is available to make it a drop in. Mounts are available, headers are available, fuel tanks are available... Besides the motor mounts, what do you have to change with the LS conversion that you wouldn't have to with the Pontiac?

There are plenty of cross members and motor/trans mounts to bolt it in the car but the shifter is in the wrong place. It's 7 inches back and centered so you have to move your console. You have to deal with switch from mechanical to hydraulic clutch. The coolant flows in the opposite direction in LS1 so you need different radiator and fan. There are issues with fitting ac compressor without notching the frame. Issues with getting the gauges to work. The gearing on the T56 requires your rear end to be in the upper 3's so that you're not turning 700 rpm at 70mph. Many LS1 require fuel rail mods to convert to return style plumbing. You have to set up electric fuel pump and plumbing.
My goal is to have efi benefits and an overdrive for cruising speeds. All of these LS1 issues are surmountable but I think I can get these in an easier way with an efi kit and tremec TKO600 trans on a poncho 400. And then I have the benefit of having a close to stock appearance under the hood and what I believe would be better value to the car. Or hell maybe I'm just lazy.

[FLYNLOW]

There are plenty of cross members and motor/trans mounts to bolt it in the car but the shifter is in the wrong place. It's 7 inches back and centered so you have to move your console. You have to deal with switch from mechanical to hydraulic clutch. The coolant flows in the opposite direction in LS1 so you need different radiator and fan. There are issues with fitting ac compressor without notching the frame. Issues with getting the gauges to work. The gearing on the T56 requires your rear end to be in the upper 3's so that you're not turning 700 rpm at 70mph. Many LS1 require fuel rail mods to convert to return style plumbing. You have to set up electric fuel pump and plumbing.
My goal is to have efi benefits and an overdrive for cruising speeds. All of these LS1 issues are surmountable but I think I can get these in an easier way with an efi kit and tremec TKO600 trans on a poncho 400. And then I have the benefit of having a close to stock appearance under the hood and what I believe would be better value to the car. Or hell maybe I'm just lazy.

The switch to a hydraulic clutch is painfully easy. Add a bracket, drill a hole in your 4 speed pedal, insert bolt. Clutch is done. LS1tech is down at the moment so I can't look to see what they are doing for shifter positions in 1st gens - the stick in my car comes up perfectly within the auto center console but I have an automatic 2nd gen console. I did actually make a bracket to move the stick back slightly to be perfectly inline with the steering wheel. The LS1 is NOT reverse cooled. Fans - you were planning on running a mechanical fan with your EFI'd Pontiac? Either way, fans and a radiator from a 4th gen are cheap. The A/C compressor situation can be solved easy enough, you can notch the frame which is pretty easy, ditch the A/C, use a Corvette setup, or pick up a relocation bracket from several companies. My 3.08's and cammed LS1 seem to get along nicely, its 1400RPM@70 and 25MPG. The only LS1 that would need fuel rail mods are 98's. You'll need electronic fuel and plumbing on your EFI'd Pontiac.

Gauges? You can adapt your stock temp and oil pressure gauges, your tach will work with simply telling the computer to change pulse counts to a traditional V8 and your speedo will work with a converter box.


I have nothing against an EFI'd Pontiac, I think it would be cool. But, the LS conversion is likely to run harder, longer, be trouble free, and get better mileage while saving several hundred pounds on the front end.

[andrewb70]

As soon as EFI is part of the requirement, nothing beats an LSx swap.

Andrew