Boss Bird Update

[Elarson]

Things are moving along...

1) new body is on order from VFN and will be ready in early October.
2) switching to a Waterman fuel pump (a small version of the pump that the NHRA pros run). Pump will be cam-driven along with the mag.
3) ignition system checked out and refurbished by MSD
4) engine is apart. Pistons are fine. We blackened the crank and killed the main bearings from too little oil flow. We're switching the Oberg-style filter to a large System 1. The other filter just wouldn't pass the 70-weight fast enough. I told Mike that, now that we blackened a crank, he's a real nitro crew chief. Note: we never had a single oil/bearing issue with the Grocery Getter.
5) no "squished" rod bearings...indicating we're safe on ignition timing @ <55 degrees BTDC
6) head gasket sealing is fine. (10) head bolts are plenty if the head is stiff enough to bridge across them without excessive flexing. The RA-V divorced exhaust no doubt helps here too.
7) upgrading to a Racepak data acquisition system.
8) converting the direct drive to a 2-speed; to get the car to 60-foot better. The 6.507 run still was pretty lazy. ;)

The car won't be on the track again this year, but we'll be out next spring to do my final license run prior to Memorial Day.

More to come,
Eric

[David Holmberg]

Glad to see things moving along Eric, thanks for the updates!

[T Syron]

That is great to hear !! Good luck

Tom Syron

[twooldgoats]

Thanks for the update. You're an inspiration.

Jim

[Brian Baker]

No more washing machine pump?

Thanks for the update. The findings inside the engine is showing your baby steps and attention to detail are paying off...many newcomers to fuel find more damage.

[BrandX]

Sounds like a wicked project!!!! Good luck with it guys!

[mgarblik]

The change to a Waterman pump is due to a change in direction for our team, not a problem with the pump or the fuel system itself. With the "Zombie" pump we are totally dependent on one person for all the tuning, Rob Bruce. He is the only one we know of to successfully run those pumps and tune them and he has done a wonderful job of it. Unfortunately. his ability to work with us is very limited and will become more so in the next 5 years. He has a baby due the end of the summer and is totally covered-up with fleet work at their shop. We don't see any change in that situation for some time to come. That means we had to switch to a more conventional fuel system and get tuning help from others. Essentially, we are starting over fuel system wise. We also like the rugged look of the new pump/mag drive we will be using.

[Hooter]

Best of luck guys. Grocery Getter at Norwalk?

[Elarson]

We'll have the Grocery Getter on display at Norwalk in Arnie's pit for his 60th Anniversary Reunion and photo shoot. Not going down the track, though. We'll be wandering around Saturday checking up on all our friends.

Eric

[Brian Baker]

The change to a Waterman pump is due to a change in direction for our team, not a problem with the pump or the fuel system itself. With the "Zombie" pump we are totally dependent on one person for all the tuning, Rob Bruce. He is the only one we know of to successfully run those pumps and tune them and he has done a wonderful job of it. Unfortunately. his ability to work with us is very limited and will become more so in the next 5 years. He has a baby due the end of the summer and is totally covered-up with fleet work at their shop. We don't see any change in that situation for some time to come. That means we had to switch to a more conventional fuel system and get tuning help from others. Essentially, we are starting over fuel system wise. We also like the rugged look of the new pump/mag drive we will be using.

Been following updates on the baby with Debbie on FB, so yea, between work and the baby, Rob is going to be ultra-busy.

Makes sense on the fuel pump, going with one that is more commercially available and used. Looking forward to seeing it out again next year.

[doug chell]

Mike and Eric good luck with the build.Doug Chell

[Steve Barcak]

Things are moving along...

1) new body is on order from VFN and will be ready in early October.
2) switching to a Waterman fuel pump (a small version of the pump that the NHRA pros run). Pump will be cam-driven along with the mag.
3) ignition system checked out and refurbished by MSD
4) engine is apart. Pistons are fine. We blackened the crank and killed the main bearings from too little oil flow. We're switching the Oberg-style filter to a large System 1. The other filter just wouldn't pass the 70-weight fast enough. I told Mike that, now that we blackened a crank, he's a real nitro crew chief. Note: we never had a single oil/bearing issue with the Grocery Getter.
5) no "squished" rod bearings...indicating we're safe on ignition timing @ <55 degrees BTDC
6) head gasket sealing is fine. (10) head bolts are plenty if the head is stiff enough to bridge across them without excessive flexing. The RA-V divorced exhaust no doubt helps here too.
7) upgrading to a Racepak data acquisition system.
8) converting the direct drive to a 2-speed; to get the car to 60-foot better. The 6.507 run still was pretty lazy. ;)

The car won't be on the track again this year, but we'll be out next spring to do my final license run prior to Memorial Day.

More to come,
Eric

Hey Eric,
I've used the system 1 filter with the nitro element and it passes the 70w just fine. Was referred to it from another nitro racer in my class. So, that is a good choice.
Have had no bearing problems with the titan wet pump, my own custom pan
and the system 1 nitro element.

Are you going to buy a RCD drive for the pump and mag? or someone else?

You will love the race pak, I run one of them too and, while I literally had to take a 2nd mortage on my home to buy it ( $7,000 at the time ), it is a great tool to have. Hopfully, the prices have come down since 2003 when I bought my Pro series from them.

Have you thought about a temp altered body? They are probably around and not too pricey and would give you seat time and Mike tuning time. Just an idea.

Agree on the 10 head bolts. I see dozens of 392/417s blown and nitro getting along just fine on 10 head bolts and they ran as quick as 5.50s and over 10,000rpm.

Best to you and Mike.

[Elarson]

Hey Eric,
I've used the system 1 filter with the nitro element and it passes the 70w just fine. Was referred to it from another nitro racer in my class. So, that is a good choice.
Have had no bearing problems with the titan wet pump, my own custom pan
and the system 1 nitro element.

Are you going to buy a RCD drive for the pump and mag? or someone else?

You will love the race pak, I run one of them too and, while I literally had to take a 2nd mortage on my home to buy it ( $7,000 at the time ), it is a great tool to have. Hopfully, the prices have come down since 2003 when I bought my Pro series from them.

Have you thought about a temp altered body? They are probably around and not too pricey and would give you seat time and Mike tuning time. Just an idea.

Agree on the 10 head bolts. I see dozens of 392/417s blown and nitro getting along just fine on 10 head bolts and they ran as quick as 5.50s and over 10,000rpm.

Best to you and Mike.

Steve: thanks for your feedback. We've used a lot of your trailblazing inspiration in our project.

We have our eye on the Enderle dual drive. It runs off our existing Enderle extension housing, has a hex drive pad for the pump and a Dunn cross drive pad for the MSD 44. It's an internal gear drive, so it rotates the pump and mag opposite to the engine. MSD can reverse our mag for us and the Waterman pump can be ordered for either direction. The RCD drive is too expensive and has 3 pads. We don't need the extra size.

The Racepak has come down in price over the years. Looks like $4k-5k for what we need.

We've seriously considered the altered body but probably not going to add that to the program at this time.

Eric

[Elarson]

Thanks for the update. You're an inspiration.

Jim

I was up at 6 am this morning to go work on the funny car. I saw your comment while I was eating breakfast. Gotta say.....that really got my day going! Thanks for your thoughts.

Eric

[Brian Baker]

Army's got Bantam and Coupe bodies on the cheap if you change your mind:

http://www.nostalgiafunnycarbodies.com/

[S/st 54]

We'll have the Grocery Getter on display at Norwalk in Arnie's pit for his 60th Anniversary Reunion and photo shoot. Not going down the track, though. We'll be wandering around Saturday checking up on all our friends.

Eric

Dang! hearing it's Arnie's 60th anniversary Reunion makes me wish I could make it out there.....That guys my Hero! Fwiw it was great to meet his grandson up in Cordova after going to POCI.There entire family is the the model of class acts!

[Scott Roberts]

Dang Eric... pros would have been ready for the next run in 90mins..:-) glad to see you guys got a handle on things and a plan. We talked about switching over to nitro from alcohol before the car was sold but then reality took over.. very expensive and unforgiving fuel to run. Glad to see you guys have the resources to make it happen and carry the Pontiac banned to the next level..wish you the best of luck next year!

[Elarson]

Yes, it's clear that a deep checkbook can make things happen in a hurry. We have to be happy with a more modest pace. But it is fun to prove that a Pontiac can take anything that the racing world has to offer.

Eric

[Jack Gifford]

... Arnie's pit for his 60th Anniversary Reunion...I can never remember; does that mean Arnie first raced in 1952? Or in 1953?
Truth is, I don't have a clue what vehicle he first raced. I think the first time I ever heard of him was about 1958- drag racing a '57 Dodge in C/G maybe? I look forward to the "Anniversary Reunion".

If I see somebody twiddling their thumbs and trying to figure out how to pass the time, I'll know I've found Eric! I hope you enjoy your brief "freedom"!

[Elarson]

To tell the truth, I'm a bit fuzzy on Arnie's first years also. I'm sure he'd love to talk about it all weekend.

This imposed freedom is agonizing. Arnie loves the Boss Bird and I know he was really disappointed that we couldn't get it back in shape for this weekend.

See ya there!
Eric

[johnta1]

I think the first time I ever heard of him was about 1958- drag racing a '57 Dodge in C/G maybe?

Not for sure of the year(s), but he raced a Dodge D501 at Cordova back then.

:)

[Old Man Taylor]

I thought he started in 1952 racing an Oldsmobile?

[Ron H]

Good luck with the rebuild. Glad to hear you will be able to get things going again.

[Don Chapman]

Arnie actually started in 1951 at Half Day dragway. Here is a link to a brief story written by Dean Fait.
http://www.cordovadrag.com/2011/news/beswick-celebrates.html

[misterp266]

Maybe Arnie can tell you about this wild ride.........:eek:

[Sirrotica]

His tractor was broken down and he needed one in a hurry............................:)

Thinkin the Boss Bird might make a good dirt late model but the braking system is gonna need some work????????

[Brian Baker]

Maybe Arnie can tell you about this wild ride.........:eek:

Reminds me of the shutdown area at 75-80...except it's too flat. That track has a steep hill past the finish line, and if you don't have your s**t together by the time you reach the top of the hill, you're in the corn.

[Elarson]

Maybe Arnie can tell you about this wild ride.........:eek:

Given a choice of cornfield or fire....I'd take cornfield. ;)

Eric

[mgarblik]

Our first batch of restored aluminum parts were picked-up today. They look great and I think we have three more loads to have done yet. The shiny restored parts are a definite motivator. Those interested can keep an eye on our progress through a new page on our web site, Arnie coined the "Phoenix Project". We would really appreciate some traffic on that page so we can show our product supporters continued interest in the car. It would be a no-cost way to help our efforts. Check it out through the regular web site address: www.grocerygetterwagon.com and go to the news link. Or go directly to the page with http://grocerygetterwagon.com/thephoenixproject.html

[60man]

Reminds me of the shutdown area at 75-80...except it's too flat. That track has a steep hill past the finish line, and if you don't have your s**t together by the time you reach the top of the hill, you're in the corn.

I made a trip in that corn field in a B Altered...years ago ..:rolleyes:
Almost in my present barge....hence 4 wheel discs..
Like said better than fire..
:focus:

[60man]

Been following the Boss Bird saga...start to now..Glad to see it getting back together.
Always been a fan of the GG to.
Good to see y'all at Norwalk. It was nice meeting/talking with both of you/Eric & Mike.
Good luck on getting Bird back..
Glad you were not hurt as well..

[Brian Baker]

Our first batch of restored aluminum parts were picked-up today. They look great and I think we have three more loads to have done yet. The shiny restored parts are a definite motivator. Those interested can keep an eye on our progress through a new page on our web site, Arnie coined the "Phoenix Project". We would really appreciate some traffic on that page so we can show our product supporters continued interest in the car. It would be a no-cost way to help our efforts. Check it out through the regular web site address: www.grocerygetterwagon.com and go to the news link. Or go directly to the page with http://grocerygetterwagon.com/thephoenixproject.html

Made a post for you on the CFC board with link.

Was reading the site and not to be anal' (OK, I'm being anal' - LOL) but I think that 6.50 would make it the 3rd quickest Pontiac in the 1/4 mile. Of course there was Butler's 6.27 from last year, but the Dirty Bird went 6.49 one night at VMP (I filmed it).

[Elarson]

Made a post for you on the CFC board with link.

Was reading the site and not to be anal' (OK, I'm being anal' - LOL) but I think that 6.50 would make it the 3rd quickest Pontiac in the 1/4 mile. Of course there was Butler's 6.27 from last year, but the Dirty Bird went 6.49 one night at VMP (I filmed it).

We were going by the Tin Indian "25 Quickest" list. If the Dirty Bird did a 6.49, they should get a timeslip or something to the list to keep things accurate.

Eric

[Brian Baker]

We were going by the Tin Indian "25 Quickest" list. If the Dirty Bird did a 6.49, they should get a timeslip or something to the list to keep things accurate.

Eric

You'd think...but given the politics of the situation, it was overlooked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqsxp7UfI8E

[Brian Baker]

Actually, Eric...it looks like your 6.50 is 4th fastest, after viewing a video of KRE on another thread. So the top 4 would be:

Butler - 6.27
KRE - 6.45
Dirty Bird - 6.49
Eric Larson/Boss Bird - 6.50

That's 4 separate Pontiacs capable of 6.50 or faster...these are exciting times.:D

[mgarblik]

My daughter runs our web site. Corrections will be made. It will take a few days to revise the post and I want to add the pictures of the restored parts anyway.

[Brian Baker]

Well...it's the quickest any Pontiac has gone on fuel.