Calling all 1965 Catalina owners - Input needed ASAP for Smoke Signals Follow-up!!

[gaca2go]

In a recent issue of POCI's Smoke Signals magazine, an unusual 1965 Catalina 4-door sedan with factory 421-HO, tri-power and 4 speed trans was featured on the cover. As the author of that story, I have been trying to decode the tremendous amount of factory data that accompanies that car.

Thanks to the efforts of both Jim Mattison and Fred Simmonds, all but one of the codes on the firewall data plate has been solved and is now understood. The final 'mystery' piece -- code C16 -- has just now possibly been solved, but I NEED YOUR HELP to ascertain its accuracy.

Here's how you can help:

Data plate expert John Viale has posited that the C16 code does indeed relate to the 2-speed windshield wiper option that the car is confirmed to have. This particular option, according to John's findings, was unique to a Catalina because the cars with just the basic single-speed wiper had a different cowl panel (the point where the wiper arms pivot).

So, to test this out, I would like for you to go outside and look at a couple things on your car and report back here right away, please:

IF YOUR CATALINA HAS THE TWO-SPEED WIPER OPTION...
1) Does the firewall Data Plate show "C16" embossed on it?
2) Do the wiper arms counter-rotate to one-another when activated and settle towards the center of the car when shut off?

IF YOUR CATALINA HAS THE BASIC SINGLE-SPEED WIPERS...
1) Does the firewall Data Plate show anything similar to "C16"? (it shouldn't if this theory is correct)
2) Do your wiper arms rotate/wipe in parallel to one another when activated? (they should if this theory is correct)

Regardless, if you have the ability to attach a quick pic of your cowl panel (the base of the windshield exterior with hood closed) together with a description of your wiper speeds (single or two-speed), that'll help, too.

NOTE... In theory, none of this applies to 1964 or earlier cars, nor to 1966 or later Cats, nor does it apply to other full-size Pontiacs such as GP and Bonneville.

Thanks for the input... and start those wiper stories a-comin'!!

Thom Sherwood
Tucson, AZ
520-798-3200

[gaca2go]

Below is a photo of the 1965 Catalina's Data Plate as featured in the story. Click to enlarge.

[Stuart]

IF YOUR CATALINA HAS THE TWO-SPEED WIPER OPTION...
2) Do the wiper arms counter-rotate to one-another when activated and settle towards the center of the car when shut off?

IF YOUR CATALINA HAS THE BASIC SINGLE-SPEED WIPERS...
2) Do your wiper arms rotate/wipe in parallel to one another when activated? (they should if this theory is correct)


The wiper configuration described was typical for two speed and single speed wipers at least as far back as 1961. Looking at the factory brochures over on http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Pontiac/dirindex.html it appears 1965 was the last year where single speed wipers was standard - that year two speed wipers were listed under available options, but that disappeared in the 1966 brochure so I assume they were made standard then and the single speed wiper configuration was dropped.

[Deadhead]

Welcome to the Dark Side. Good luck.

Pretty telling that POCI is over here at PY for information.

[Doug Hopkins]

I am not an expert on codes but I thought the two speed wiper was standard on all big Pontiacs in 1965. I have owned three 1965 Catalinas (two 2+2's) and they all had the two speed wiper.

[Engine-Ear]

Sorry to get off topic, but that was a good story in SS. It reminds me of the white, police-equipped '65 Cat 4dr sedan I drove when I joined the PY board... nearly 16 years ago!

I just checked my files and while I still have the notebook full of pics, travel stories and repairs, I must have given the PHS folder to the buyer (dummy had no idea he was buying one of about 500 cars made).

[stevep]

I am not an expert on codes but I thought the two speed wiper was standard on all big Pontiacs in 1965. I have owned three 1965 Catalinas (two 2+2's) and they all had the two speed wiper.

it's just that many of them had the 2 speed overlapping wipers. The single speed are just like a Chevy.

[gaca2go]

Sorry to get off topic, but that was a good story in SS. It reminds me of [...] nearly 16 years ago!

Thanks, Engine-Ear. I was pleased with the way it turned out, and it was really cool that the original owner kept all the sales and ordering documents.

According to John V's research (mentioned in the original post), all full-size Pontiacs in 1965 EXCEPT the Catalina had the two-speed wipers as standard equipment... meaning that standard Cats with the basic single-speed wipers needed one cowl panel and those WITH the 2-speed option got the same cowl as the Bonnes, GPs, 2+2 and Executives.

Not sure about the Star Chief?? Any thoughts on how that model was equipped as standard? Were two-speed wipers standard or an available option?

I've attached the photo of the Data Plate again for those who couldn't open/view it earlier.

[66 Wagon]

Here's a '65 2+2 in Sweden that has the parallell wipers.

http://i63.tinypic.com/35kr39s.jpg
http://i64.tinypic.com/2urmrr5.jpg

[Stuart]

... meaning that standard Cats with the basic single-speed wipers needed one cowl panel and those WITH the 2-speed option got the same cowl as the Bonnes, GPs, 2+2 and Executives.

Here's a '65 2+2 in Sweden that has the parallel wipers.

In 1965 the 2+2 was still a trim option for the Catalina, it didn't become its own series until 1966. So, the single speed wipers on the Swedish car makes sense.

[gaca2go]

That makes perfect sense.

Are there any other 1965 2+2 owners here in the US that have the same basic single-speed wiper to corraborate this evidence with a photo of their own car with parallel wipers?

Let me know, or submit your post here. Thanks!

Thom Sherwood
(gaca2go)
Tucson, AZ
520-798-3200

[gaca2go]

Between John V's Shipping Manifest that clearly links the codes 421 with C16 for a two-speed wiper system for a '65 Cat wagon built in the same South Gate, California plant, and Ron Berglund's Build Sheet that shows C16 as the two-speed wiper... I think we have this question successfully answered except for if it perhaps also applied to Star Chief models?

Any additional last-moment insights before we go to press?

Thanks for all the positive input. The Pontiac hobby is wealthier and healthier because of it!

.

[johnta1]

This master order sheet doesn't show the 2 speed wiper in the 2+2 options.

Does show the 2 speed wiper is 421/C16
(not sure where this came from but probably here on PY)

:)

[joegpho]

I don't have any photos of the body data plate but I can assure you that my dad's Catalina has the single speed wipers and that dual-speed were optional. This is known as my dad forgot to order such! He did make up his own windshield washer system.
The car is not a 2+2 but is a Catalina with the Ventura trim option.
Attached is a photo of the front of the car taken in the summer of 1965.
I will check the data plate when I can.

[MPKind]

My 2D Sedan Catalina was built in Pontiac, MI in June of '65. It's original options are: AM Radio, Dual Speed Wipers, DeLuxe Steering Wheel, Back-Up Lamps, Power Steering, TH-400 Transmission, H.D. Air Cleaner (for Reg. Fuel 389), Custom Front Cushion-Front, Soft Ray Glass-Windshield Only, LH outside mirror.

Below is the data plate. My understanding is that different plants had there own codes for accessories, but I've never verified that. A-bodied cars document these codes better, but they may transfer to B-Body in some instances.

06B 1
ST 65-25211 PON 3302 BODY
TR 220- KKL PAINT
W 2AZP

Looking at the PHS for my car, it was built with the "Basic Group" Group No. 061, and a few selected extra factory and a couple dealer add-ons. Perhaps if 2 speed wipers were ordered in the Group package, it wouldn't show up on the cowl tag. Where if the 2 speeds were ordered as a stand alone option it may show up on the cowl tag.

[68 Firebird Brian]

Between John V's Shipping Manifest that clearly links the codes 421 with C16 for a two-speed wiper system for a '65 Cat wagon built in the same South Gate, California plant, and Ron Berglund's Build Sheet that shows C16 as the two-speed wiper... I think we have this question successfully answered except for if it perhaps also applied to Star Chief models?

Any additional last-moment insights before we go to press?

Thanks for all the positive input. The Pontiac hobby is wealthier and healthier because of it!

.

This thread a little old but I have some info I can share with you.

I own:
#1 - 65 Pontiac Laurentian wagon (built in Canada)
- parallel wipers

#2 - 65 Pontiac Catalina wagon (built in US)
- HAS THE TWO-SPEED WIPER OPTION
- C16 on body tag
- 421 code on build sheet

Some other doc from Sales Manual

[68 Firebird Brian]

more pics